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Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

96K views 178 replies 58 participants last post by  Russlan 
#1 Ā· (Edited)
There is quite a bit of confusion about Yanagisawa soprano models. Even some well-known web sites and the venerable SOTW archives have considerable misinformation. I was curious about which model a friend plays and was misdirected several times before sorting things out.

So, I am starting this thread as a resource. I am posting pictures as well as descriptions and what I consider to be accurate web site sources. Pictures seem to be somewhat ephemeral, so they may disappear.

This is a summary of documents from information on saxpics.com that appears to be well researched. The source is untitled and uncited, but there is an abbreviated version too. A simpler serial number - year summary can be found here.

Model
Year
Changes
ID features

S-6
03/1969 - 1978?
Selmer Mk VI competitor with similar keywork design
"Made by Yanagisawa" label, metal thumb rest?, D-shaped strap hook

S800
1978? - 1985
Improved keywork?
"Yanagisawa" label

Elimona (S880?)
06/1985 - 1989?
LH Bell keys, Front F, High F#
B-C# bridge, 2 necks

Elimona (2200SS?)
YYYY
?
?

S900
1990?-1995?
Fixed neck
S900 engraved below Yanagisawa label

S880
1990? - 1995?
C# rod arm
S880 Engraved under Yanagisawa, No Elimona

Elimona S990
1990? - 1995?
High G
990 over S/N, Eiimona Engraved under Yanagisawa

S901
1995? -
Complete re-tooling of tone holes and taper
Fixed neck, S901 Engraved under Yanagisawa

S981
1995? -
Complete re-tooling of tone holes and taper
High F#, 2 necks, S981 Engraved under Yanagisawa

S991
1995? -
Complete re-tooling of tone holes and taper
High G, lacquer, S991 Engraved under Yanagisawa

S992
1998 -
Bronze
2 necks, High G

S902
2000 -
Bronze
Fixed neck

I also have had to speculate and fill in some gaps, so we will have to make corrections as we go along.
 
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#100 Ā·
Yanagisawa is notorious for making running changes for improvements and I am sure production efficiency. As I said, these apparently are all hybrids with some ribs and some single posts. If we did some side-by-side comparisons over the years, I think we would see a lot of consistency, but it would not surprise me to see a rib appear or disappear or a linkage change design.
 
#102 Ā·
You're welcome.

* My Yani pages are currently at http://thesax.info/makesandmodelslist/category/japanese/yanagisawa. Yes, I'm eventually going to fix the layout.
* My Yani pictures are at http://thesax.info/piwigo/index.php?/category/168#content. I also keep re-organizing that.
* My serial number research is at http://woodwindforum.com/forum/index.php?threads/serial-numbers.24354

There are no 50/500 or 88/880 curved sopranos. The SC-800 was the first curvy, so you're not going to find, say, an SC-3. That would be cool, though.

One difference between the 800 and 880 is the kind of brass used; i.e. French (thick) vs Japanese (thin). The 800 and 880 supposedly have a bit of a difference in tonehole placement because of this. As far as I can tell, Yani has continued to do this with the 90x vs the 99x, but I no longer see this advertised. Well, the WO1 is called "light" and the WO10 is called "heavy" ...

I've been working on other projects for quite awhile, now, so I haven't been by. However, I do try to show up when someone posts here.
 
#104 Ā·
One difference between the 800 and 880 is the kind of brass used; i.e. French (thick) vs Japanese (thin). The 800 and 880 supposedly have a bit of a difference in tonehole placement because of this. As far as I can tell, Yani has continued to do this with the 90x vs the 99x, but I no longer see this advertised. Well, the WO1 is called "light" and the WO10 is called "heavy" ...
I think that the "Light" and "Heavy" designations refer primarily (or exclusively?) to the choice of single-post vs. ribbed construction. However, Dave Kessler has reported that his Yany contacts indicated that the WO1 and the WO10 use different brass -- or at least differently sourced brass -- although there's no word on whether one variant is of a heavier gauge, or whether one is internally designated as "Japanese" and the other "French."
 
#106 Ā·
I'll defer to you, based on the primary fact that I'm too lazy to look it up :tongue1:. However, if it's just the brass composition, one would assume that the toneholes didn't need to be moved and I'm pretty sure I've read that about the 800 vs the 880, at least. I do appreciate Lost Conn's comment regarding what Dave Kessler said about the new Yanis, though. Good on ya!

As far as the light vs. heavy designations on the WO horns, I've seen that primarily on Japanese websites. Hey, the Conn-Selmer website still has the 90x and 99x altos and tenors listed, so light/heavy might not have made it to the US yet. IMO, if I was Yanagisawa, I'd use "light" and "heavy" to indicate the brass composition and talk up the plate construction as two different things. More selling points, you know :).

FWIW, minstein, I don't have a horse in this race. I no longer play -- too many medical problems, but I do have a Yamaha WX5 that keeps me entertained -- and the only Yani products I've played for any length of time were B6 Vito baris, none of which played very well. That being said, Gandalfe (Jim) said that he'll get me to play a "Silver Sonic" Yani bari if I ever visit the northwest.

Sopranos (and higher) and baritones (and lower) have always been difficult to quantify because they don't generally have the same features of a alto or tenor in the same model range, so I'm not overly surprised that an SS-880 plays similarly to an SS-901. Hey, don't mess with perfection.

I've often mentioned that I'm a big fan of Yamaha products, but I watched a video from sax.co.uk (again, too lazy to look up) where one of their folks played a YAS-62 or 62III and a Yani 901 or WO1 side-by-side. You could easily tell the sonic difference between the horns and the Yani was a a lot darker and rounder. The Yani is also a tad bit cheaper than the 62III.

 
#105 Ā·
Geez Pete...no good deed goes unpunished.

It seems this is still a topic of interest, even if it goes through bouts without questions.

There is a profound difference between most saxes and clarinets between models...which I find so interesting about Yannies: how little they seem to change model to model...though I have no faimilairty with the alloy or bronze differences. Both of my sopranos play and feel the same, even 12 years apart...
 
#107 Ā·
there has been much discussion about these matters concerning brass thickness and composition, let alone the whole measuring parabolic bores.

Some commercial terms like cartridge brass even gave origin to myths such as the Selmer spent-cannon-shell one while they only define brass for a different purpose and with a different composition.

As for thickness, there are variations but there are limits to the applicability of too great a difference, imposed by the fact that too thin a brass sheet one could push in dents and too thick it wonā€™t bend (think of how much force one needs to roll the top part of the soprano and indeed many sopranos, also Yanagisawa, were not made in one cone but two soldered cones recognizable by a slight bump on the surface of the ā€œ neckā€).

The thing that people make a big deal of the nature of the shell (the thickness and nature of materials and its plating) has been most certainly used by companies to market things in a particular way.

In the much quoted video by Rampone & Cazzani, Claudio Zolla hits bars of metal with a mallet to demonstrate metal resonance. At some point though he hits raw copper which produces an horrible ā€œ klangā€ and he himself says that he doesnā€™t understand how a bar that produces such a horrible ā€œ resonanceā€ produces warm sounds when shaped into a saxophones. In other words he contradicts his own assumption that it is material that makes the sound in an active way.

Nevertheless it is very useful and helps selling at way higher price that any metal or its difference in thickness any instrument made or plated with any particular metal.
 
#110 Ā·
As I mentioned the differences between 901 and 991 et al. for altos and tenors do not hold for sopranos. The S901 and the S991 are marketed and reportedly identical except for the removable neck and high-G key. If you have a documented, in-hand exception to this, it would be interesting to see it.

As there is no SW01 or SW010 yet, it remains to be seen what Yanagisawa will do with its new, RUMORED, soprano designs.
 
#112 Ā·
Do I have an 880?

I have a Yanagisawa Elimona Professional Soprano Saxophone for sale. It is not curved. The serial number is 00140958. From what I can tell, this is an 880 from the 1986-87 era. I am 54. My father played sax. Grew up listening to him. He was a local sax icon but passed in 2000. He played alto and tenor. I bought this soprano thinking I would learn it, but have not. Looking to sell it after careful consideration, but I need to know what it is so I can clearly communicate to a buyer.

The case and sax are in excellent condition. It has been used less than 3 hours in the past 14 years. No dent, dings, and does not appear to show worn areas...very, very clean. It comes with straight and curved neck pieces.

Some say this is a great sax.

You can see pictures here: https://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/44424668

Is it an 880?
 
#113 Ā·
As the ad says, technically this is known as an Elimona model. It was manufactured during a time, 1987, when these sopranos were marketed as a 2200SS. But yes, it is the same model that was known in other parts of the world and later became known at the S880.
 
#114 Ā·
A friend of mine is selling a vintage yanagisasa soprano. I tried to help him identify it by coming here. Then I realized something, we have really great flow charts for things like Otto link metal mouthpieces. Can someone who has a good understanding of these sopranos make a flow chart for Yanagisasa sopranos? That would be ridiculously helpful for everyone instead of trying to read through all of this. Also, make it a sticky. :-D
 
#116 Ā·
Leblanc is a distributor of Yanagisawa, unless something drastically changed in the last two years. Yani has and still does make stencils for the Vito line; traditionally labelled "Vito VSP." In Asia, Yani's distributed by two different companies, one of which is Prima Gakki. That's why (generally) some Yani 8xx series horns have "Prima" on the bell.

I did do some updates to my Yani pages recently. If you have any questions, please post here -- I'm "watching" this thread -- or e-mail me @ thesaxinfo-at-gmail.com.
 
#127 Ā·
#130 Ā·
The link you provided leads to a fake chinese Yanagisawas BUT the photos are from real YANAGISAWA saxophones and in fact the same are on the yanagisawa official website.

The one posted by Taras Yanagasawa sopranino for me is an original Yanagisawa, but from early 80's or 90's.
I am attaching a photo of my Yanagisawa Elimona sopranino I had some time ago. Great instrument. Check the logo and engraving (Elimona had more elaborate) and compare with the one Taras posted. For me these are the same.

Drinkware Blue Drink Electric blue Barware
 
#131 Ā·
I am quite sure OP is a fake, but it's a free world , a fake like the one that one would receive if buying from that link that I gave above (they always use the real pics but you can't buy a Yanagisawa at that price), the engraving of the Yanagisawa logo I have never seen one like that.

I wouldn't buy it but again if OP trusts that and the horn is well priced...

Very approximative and the Ā® sign is positively badly made and Yanagisawa people are very thorough
 
#132 Ā·
...the engraving of the Yanagisawa logo I have never seen one like that.

Very approximative and the Ā® sign is positively badly made and Yanagisawa people are very thorough
If you have never seen a logo like that - this is not an argument for it is a fake one.

Mine Elimona from the 80's had the same exact logo and even the Ā® sign also looks badly made.
In fact the earlier Yanagisawa engravings all look like a poor made and also were inconsistent with different patterns and letter shape.
Just go to saxpics.com and check the photos or go to google graphics and type Yanagisawa Elimona - you will find other saxes with the same logo as mine Elimona or the OP. I can see also some different logos and engravings which all are original, just from different period of time, different engravers etc.

If the OP sax is chinese, than for me it has all the same mechanics, posts, keys, logo, engraving, stamped serial number, I also seen it has a case from that period of time in other advertisement. Chinese are copying everything and they are more and more accurate year by year BUT there are always some easy to find mistakes like different lacquer color, different parts, different materials, printed instead of stamped fake serials, modern cases, famous white gloves and many more etc. In the OP sax I can't find any sign that it is a copy. Is there anything I am missing?
 
#134 Ā·
Probably it will also sound good ... I do not have to buy this sax because those who sell it did not give me pictures of the serial and I can not try it because it's far from where I live ... and it's all unclear ... not original case ..engraving not made in Japan .... I liked to know the opinion of sax Yanagisawa experts ... I now have some experience in buying sax and I realize unclear situations and not honest sellers ... ..
milandro is Guru...:salute::salute:
 
#135 Ā·
Thanks Taras for your trust but I am only a coffee Guru :)...


Really it is possible that I am wrong and that. that is a 100% kosher Yanagisawa, but there are others on the market and if in doubt .... donā€™t.

Of course one could take a chance if it would come at the price of a copy. In that case what would you have to lose?

Good Luck with your quest!
 
#136 Ā·
First, you say "saxpics" and I will appear ... eventually. Sorry I didn't reply earlier. Account and associated DB issues. Thanks for the help, saxismyaxe.

The 6 was discontinued around 1980 when the 800 was introduced. Here's a page from the catalog. So, because Taras' horn doesn't have all the fancy "Elimona" stuff, it'd be an SN-600. QED. I agree with a serial number matching to 1988/89.

I'm sorry, Taras, I think your statement, "sopranino 00155418 (not engraved SN not model)," probably threw us off a bit. There are lots of Yanagisawas that don't have a model name stamped/engraved. Yani got better at that around when the 900 series horns were introduced.

Taking nothing from milandro at all, my opinion is that yes, it's a real Yanagisawa SN-600. I agree with kendukendu that Yani's engraving/stamping isn't always up to par. I also think that the horn looks like it has at least some wear on it that would make me believe the horn was from 1988/89.

milandro is absolutely correct that there are bunches of fakes out there. Here's a good example of a Yani, with pics of the "actual" horn, not just picked off Yani's website. Interestingly, AliExpress does have some genuine good deals on things that you know are made in China, like keycaps for mechanical keyboards.

-----------


My Yani pages, if you're interested. Please visit my new pic gallery at http://thesax.info/piwigo.
 
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