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Otto link NY STM (tenor) vs older models (like florida) and the baritone reed adjustment.

6K views 37 replies 7 participants last post by  Constadinr 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello ! Am a new member and want to congratulate the forum for its help to us the new people who are interested to jazz it up.
Today i would like to ask about reeds and tenor mouthpiece specifically about Otto link NY stm and older like florida. I see to the web pictures from the oldest to newer jazz tenor players that reed material is extented far from the reed table of the mouthpiece. I came to a conclusion at the begging of baritone reed use and the forum verified me after reading some threads. I wonder if this is the whole true?

If someone here has older "links" and the NY stm i would like to know the dimension differences of them(the tables). Maybe for example Otto link florida has smaller reed table than the NY STM and the reed (a tenor one) is extented like it was of a baritone to the eye of a new player.
Also because the baritone reed use is a fact does it fit better to the older models or is it extented (right and left) to the upper side rails like my NY STM (photos below)?. I think NY is more narrow at the top than the some older but dont know for sure.
If the baritone reed extends to the tenor mouthpiece( in both cases) to the upper side rails do i have to center it to the mouthpiece or adjust it to fit just to one rail of it (Left or right).

Ok thats it for now. Thank you for your time. Ps: Sorry for my bad english.
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#2 ·
Welcome to SOTW Constadinr. :)

I'm not sure if I understood your post fully, but I own a lot of Otto Link tenor mouthpieces (modern and vintage) and didn't find much difference in table sizes for older STM's (like Florida and Early Babbitt) and modern STM NY's. I can use the same reeds on those mouthpieces without any issue. But I know that in some cases the shape of an Otto Link beak is not fully up to the shape of certain reed brands (I think that can be the case for individual mouthpieces, it's not related to certain Otto Link types).

I've never used baritone reeds on tenor, don't see the added value of that. Their vamp cut doesn't fit a tenor mouthpiece facing that well, so I guess they will feel softer compared to a normal tenor reed of the same reed size and brand.

Here are some links to pictures of my mouthpieces:

1. Various mouthpiece pictures (per mouthpiece):
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...Otto-Link-s)&p=2132764&viewfull=1#post2132764

2. Pictures with multiple mouthpieces:
https://plus.google.com/photos/108637650008771977212/albums/6210650792866024177

3. Picture with a Florida / Early Babbitt / Berg Larsen and modern STM NY:
https://plus.google.com/photos/108637650008771977212/album/6210650792866024177/6072395727981604530
(Clicking on the > sign on the right middle of the screen will show you some more pics with those four mouthpieces.)

I hope that helps a bit!
 
#4 ·
Re: Otto link Mpcs and Reeds (new player)

How much the reed covers the table or even extends passed the end of the table is the least significant metric on how it will play. Why use a baritone reed on a tenor mouthpiece? Maybe I'm not understanding your questions but I don't see relevance in any of it.
 
#5 ·
Re: Otto link Mpcs and Reeds (new player)

I'm not sure totally if you're saying that you are currently using a baritone reed or if the pictures you're seeing make it seem like people are using baritone reeds on Otto Links for some reason.

To answer your question. Different mouthpieces have different tables (the flat part on the under side of the mouthpiece). On some the reed will hang over the end (towards the back) and on others the reed will meet flush with where the table ends.

Your reed should not hang over the front by a large portion. Mostly it should be flush with the tip rail of your mouthpiece. Maybe just a little tiny bit forward or back to get your reed where it plays best.

Some people do in fact use a baritone reed on their mouthpieces but as a beginner I strongly advise against it.
 
#7 ·
Re: Otto link Mpcs and Reeds (new player)

understood, but why use a baritone reed on tenor today? no lack of choices these days.
in any case, the most important is to closely align the reed tip to the front rail of the mouthpiece, as littlewailer said, while centered between side rails.
does that answer your question?

Hello Guto. Baritone reed on a tenor mpcs was a common thing among players. In the old days there werent many reed choises as i read to the web as it is in our days.
 
#8 ·
Re: Otto link Mpcs and Reeds (new player)

Hello littlewailer.
Iam currently using baritone reed to my NY stm. I play sax many years but just a year ago i started to play jazz.Iam trying to understand some things. I dont have a teacher yet. So everything u share people its a big help to my "journey"!
Iam inserting some pictures from the web of 3 legends. In your opinion what reed they use? The reed table is it different to those mpcs?

As for the upper front part of the mpc i place the reed a bit back from the tip. But when using baritone reed reed material extends right and left from the mpc.Older otto link mpcs(like florida) had the same logic issue or because of the known baritone use the made them more large to fit better?
I insert some photos of my link.

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#13 ·
Re: Otto link Mpcs and Reeds (new player)

Iam inserting some pictures from the web of 3 legends. In your opinion what reed they use? The reed table is it different to those mpcs?
Ben Webster and Dexter Gordon used tenor reeds on a tenor mpc. I'm not sure who is in the third photo, but there's no reason to assume he's using a bari reed. Just because the bottom on the reed extends beyond the mpc table does not mean its a bari reed. Those are Links in the photos and the base of a (tenor) reed does generally extend slightly beyond the table base on Links. That has no affect on the sound or how the reed plays.

You said it was 'common' to use bari reeds on tenor in the past. No it wasn't. It's true that a FEW players did that; probably very few. I can only think of one offhand; Plas Johnson was known to play a soft baritone reed on a Berg with a very wide open tip (.150 I think). Maybe there were a couple others, but it sure wasn't a common practice.
 
#10 ·
#11 ·
Re: Otto link Mpcs and Reeds (new player)

Constadinr, you started a thread with about the same topic here:
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...ike-florida)-and-the-baritone-reed-adjustment

It's not allowed to do that, so I merged both threads into one.

Please keep all things related to the some topic into one thread to prevent pollution and scattering of information on the forum.
Hello mrpeebee. When started the first thread i awaited to be posted one day and thought it was deleted or i did some thing wrong and try to post again. My mistake. Thank you!
 
#18 ·
#20 ·
Re: Otto link Mpcs and Reeds (new player)

Hey JL. I think you have your answers to many questions with your experience.... But lets us the new one to question and argue :D hehe Again thanks for your reply.
Btw you or mrpeebee maybe you can share with me some comparison pictures between NY STM modern(my own mpc) and a florida one (usa or no usa) ? I would like to buy one more otto link at the moment and i have stuck to floridas(or dukoff holywood).I saw the thread of mrpeebee with his collection but i would like to see a more closer examination of those two. Thanks in advance.
 
#21 ·
Btw you or mrpeebee maybe you can share with me some comparison pictures between NY STM modern(my own mpc) and a florida one (usa or no usa) ? I would like to buy one more otto link at the moment and i have stuck to floridas(or dukoff holywood).I saw the thread of mrpeebee with his collection but i would like to see a more closer examination of those two. Thanks in advance.
Constadinr, check the two links I gave in post #2. I have some pics with green name labels typed above the mouthpieces. You can zoom in using your mouse and scroll using the < and > characters left and right on a pictures.

2. Pictures with multiple mouthpieces:
https://plus.google.com/photos/108637650008771977212/albums/6210650792866024177

3. Picture with a Florida / Early Babbitt / Berg Larsen and modern STM NY:
https://plus.google.com/photos/108637650008771977212/album/6210650792866024177/6072395727981604530
(Clicking on the > sign on the right middle of the screen will show you some more pics with those four mouthpieces.)

I hope that helps a bit!
 
#22 ·
Re: Otto link Mpcs and Reeds (new player)

mrpeebee Peter, when and where did you hear about Lester Young using baritone reeds on his tenor mouthpieces because that sounds preposterous to me if you follow Pres closely.
I know in the late 30's when he played in the Count Basie orchestra where he played his many classic solos alongside Hershall Evans, Pres used a metal otto link master link or maybe the 4****star model and had a bit more bite to his tone. in fact i was listening all afternoon Saturday to those classics from the Basie band with Phil Schapp from WKCR Columbia University radio for hours and didn't detect that heavy reed change you described in this thread. by the way Hershall Evans was pure genius in his short playing career when he died at 29 years old of heart failure. I read in a couple of Lester Young books i have that losing Hershall devastated him for a very long time personally and could be argued musically too.
 
#23 ·
Re: Otto link Mpcs and Reeds (new player)

mrpeebee Peter, when and where did you hear about Lester Young using baritone reeds on his tenor mouthpieces because that sounds preposterous to me if you follow Pres closely.
William, I did read that years ago in a biography (The Story of Lester Young). Checking google gave me this link to a scanned version:
https://books.google.nl/books?id=9D...=onepage&q=lester young baritone reed&f=false

Buster Smith mentions on page 35/36 that Lester used baritone reeds on tenor and he (Buster) tenor reeds on alto to become louder in the 30's Basie band. Lester used plastic reeds later in his career (40's and onwards).
 
#27 ·
By 'reed picky' I mean only a small percentage of reeds play well on it. The NY Link was darker than the Tribute, and probably darker than Florida Links in general. It has a bit larger chamber. I did like the deep, robust tone I could get on the NY, but as I said, it didn't play that well on most reeds. And it didn't play and respond as well on any reed as the Tribute. If you want a Link that is guaranteed to play, the Tribute is a good choice.
 
#28 ·
Hey JL. Probably gonna stay with my NY atm. I lke that fat dark sound. About the reed adjustment on the tip you are right. Same think happens to me and in compare with a vandoren java mpc i have.I was thinking of a diy trimming of the tip. Is it safe?
 
#34 ·
Hey mrpeebee.You are right. I see so many mpcs and reeds and as a new player am thinking of "Hey that mpc may be the one.Its blows like i want to".But as you said the player practice listening is all that matters. Besides that i cant help my self looking for a vintage link and give it a try. Its like a link desease i guess :D
As for the facing curved tip i its fine as it is :p I agree with "a destroyed reed can be replaced more easy than a destroyed mouthpiece!"
Sorry for another question.I believe i might exhausted you.About the darker sounding soft reed Rico royal 2.Are royals dark or soft reeds in general are dark or make a dark sound?
Thanks for your reply.
PS: Excelllent recording.
 
#35 ·
Hey mrpeebee.You are right. I see so many mpcs and reeds and as a new player am thinking of "Hey that mpc may be the one.Its blows like i want to".But as you said the player practice listening is all that matters. Besides that i cant help my self looking for a vintage link and give it a try. Its like a link desease i guess :D
That's called mouthpiece GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) and we all have that 'disease' so now and than here on SOTW. It's a very expensive disease and difficult to cure!

Sorry for another question.I believe i might exhausted you.About the darker sounding soft reed Rico royal 2.Are royals dark or soft reeds in general are dark or make a dark sound?
For me Rico Royal is one of the darker sounding cane reeds, but for others it could be different. About reed size: a too soft reed can give more buzz and normally sounds brighter compared to a harder reed. A too hard reed can sound stuffy and dark. The best reed is the one in between! We have many threads about reeds on the forum, you can search a bit in those.

In general a certain mouthpiece design (baffle, chamber) can bring you in the direction of a certain sound type and you can adjust that slightly with the reed brand and size, but by far the most important factor is the player. I've listened to your sound clip and you have a good basis sound, so my advice would be to put your focus on practicing and varying a bit with reeds and not on new gear (mouthpeces) for the coming year. After that period you could re-consider (which is actually an ongoing behavior for a lot of players and a part of the reason for GAS)!
 
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