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OK, Please Tell US, Does a Size 10 Mouthpiece Have Advantage

5K views 66 replies 24 participants last post by  Jazz Is All 
#1 ·
Over a......well, let us say por ejemplo> A Jodi Jazz Hard Rubber Size #10 v. an Ottolink 24k goldplate metal Size #5 mouthpiece? Both using the same 2.5 reed. Doesn't matter if it's a Van Doren or whatever....


What is the advantage of going B__I__G??? Or is this just some jazz ego thing?
 
#4 ·
Its a personal thing - some players tend to want big mouthpieces and others don't. The two sides will never agree and its like the 'Link versus Berg' argument; some go one way, some go the other way and they will never agree. The compromise mouthpieces (the best of both worlds) basically don't please anybody. The one thing you never do is go with a radical change from what you're playing now just because others do it.
 
#6 ·
The only advantage is having a mouthpiece that you are happy with, that allows you to get the sound and response you want.

It's irrelevant whether it's a 5 or a 10 as long as it works for you.

(That being said, you can sort of generalise a bit in regard to genre, for classical a narrower tip is often used)


What I always wonder is why the fixation on tip size without referencing the facing curve, which is is just as crucial a measurement?
 
#7 ·
IMHO big tip equals big sound, reeds are subjective so who cares, we're all different..a lifetime of pro Tenor playing taught me tip size is a natural progression, up to a point.

I started on a C*, My tips have gotten bigger because they had to. Personally a #10 is too big for me, I play up to around .125 like a DG with a high baffle or a .115 Link no baffle I'll use a softish reed 1.5-2.5 I get the fattest sound that way, I have never developed a smaller tip harder reed style. I recently picked up a hard rubber 7* .105 ToneEdge to try a smaller tip harder reed concept.

Pete is right whatever works..!!
 
#8 ·
Cash; we are exactly the same on the mouthpiece/reed thing! To me its a matter of 'headroom' in a way; IOW, a big, baffle mpc like a DG 'King Curtis' or 'King' with a 2 1/2 or 3 reed allows me to get a lush sound but at the same time I cannot overblow it - that set-up can take tons of air and simply get louder. You have to have chops but its worth it. I'm 72 and I still blow dual saxes (alto and tenor), both with DGs; KC on tenor and Studio on alto. These two really work well together but I don't do it much anymore - just a few times a night. Now I also carry a baritone that I'm playing about 30% of the time and a couple numbers on alto but the rest is all tenor.
 
#9 ·
For some of us, larger tips are more comfortable....I can play a 6*, I prefer 8-9*....nothing more than comfort....I can get what I want with the larger tips...
 
#15 ·
I have a metal Jaguar tenor mpc at .125 that plays easily and correctly with a #2 reed.

I have a hard rubber Ronald Caravan tenor mpc at .068 that plays easily and correctly with a #3.5 reed.

A lot of that has to do with the facing curve and chamber matching well with the tip and the reed.

At least that is my theory.

I would not use the Caravan as my first pick to wail out blues with my pals in the electric garage band. I would not use the Jaguar as my first pick to come in ppp on a low Bb to blend in with the bassoons.
 
#16 ·
I choose mouthpieces based on their resistance and tone, and find that reeds make a huge difference. Like @click, I have a Caravan, only for alto and I would normally (intuitively) use a blue box 3.5 (+/-) for that facing, but have had a lot of success with a java (green) 2.5 in a concert band setting; I can blend well (enough) with the other woodwinds, and still manage a convincing commercial (ish) tone for the pop style tunes.

I've never tried a #10, but I'm sure it would be a matter of finding the right sized reed and then deciding if it matched your airstream.
 
#17 ·
A lot depends on the mouthpiece. I don't normally play high baffle pieces except on bari, where I play a Runyon Smoothbore 12 facing. The baffle on that piece is gigantic, especially with the spoiler, so you need a large tip to accommodate the necessary air flow. It also requires a bit softer reed.

There's a reason most classical players play small tips; the baffles on those pieces are much lower, so you get an uncontrollable sound with poor articulation with larger tips.
 
#18 ·
Yeah it's a "jazz thing". Mine's bigger than yours. I use an 11 opening with a tongue splint for a reed.
 
#26 ·
I've been playing exclusively 9*'s/10's/10*'s for years... and no, not for the 'bragging' rights or in some vain quest for total machismo. Hell, I'm hardly around many saxophonists so I have no idea who I'd even 'brag' to about something so inconsequential. It's a matter of interface... plenty of players (like myself) love to give tons of air when they play, and they like to play loud because the music they play requires it. For reference: Other players who use/d 10* and over openings: Jerry Bergonzi, Steve Lacy, Gene Ammons, Albert Ayler, Eddie Lockjaw Davis, Willis Jackson (a 12* apparently), Ab Baars, John Dikeman, David S. Ware, George Garzone, Wayne Shorter, etc etc etc.

Saxophonists tend to forget that most people (including musicians) don't know or care about saxophone gear, so these claims of machismo regarding tip opening seem useless to me. Maybe at a jazz school or some other sax-bubble environment, but most people still confuse saxophone and trumpet, so whatever.

If the facing is good and the piece is well put together then yeah, should be 'easy' with the right reed. For the music I make, a big tip makes sense... I do music that requires extreme dynamics, be it 'free jazz'/'free improv' that's acoustic and loud, or extremely quiet ('lowercase') music where the larger tip gives me more options for breath sounds.

Anyway, play what feels right for what you want to do. There are too many variables with mouthpiece construction and vibration to make a generalization that's reliable.
 
#31 ·
"Phil-Tone" is a brand. Not all models work as well in big tip openings. Talk to Phil if you have a specific need.

What is the intent of your query? Are you trying to change your sound? What are you hoping to achieve?

As others have already discussed, there is more to getting a particular sound than just opening the mouthpiece tip.
 
#36 ·
Over a......well, let us say por ejemplo> A Jodi Jazz Hard Rubber Size #10 v. an Ottolink 24k goldplate metal Size #5 mouthpiece? Both using the same 2.5 reed. Doesn't matter if it's a Van Doren or whatever....

What is the advantage of going B__I__G??? Or is this just some jazz ego thing?
If you consider less control and wild intonation to be an advantage, then sure, a size 10 has tons of advantage.
 
#41 ·
Around the 9:50 minute mark, George Garzone discusses mouthpiece/reed size:
Funny story from Emilio Lyons of Boston in an article once. He was working on Rahsaan Roland Kirk's horns and he said that he could fit his little finger between the reed and the mouthpiece on Kirk's mouthpiece!
 
#44 ·
Get ready to mortgage the Farm with Emilio (worth every penny), You must be exited to have such a legend do your axe..FWIW I just resto'd my VI tenor too..

Thank god I got a wonderous local cat that does fantastic work..Before the job I mail-ordered Tenor Madness premium Pisoni's and custom-fit O'size Brass Resos ($250).. 'nuff said.

Then I had my man do the deed, he gave me a sweet homeboy deal $XXX ...He insisted on doing all necessary related corks, felts, etc as well...so I got a brand new VI at this point...

Far as the Mpcs's go I can't handle those huge tips like our pal Mr PeeBee..For yrs I kept a very cool Tenor mpc, a Dukoff D10 HUGE I tried and tried..never happened. I bet Mr PeeBee could have wailed on it..I kept it for years but never could play it..
 
#46 ·
Then I had my man do the deed, he gave me a sweet homeboy deal $XXX ...He insisted on doing all necessary related corks, felts, etc as well...so I got a brand new VI at this point...
Maybe a bit off topic, but man Cash you must be lovin' that VI now! I still remember years ago when I got mine fully overhauled; I couldn't believe it was the same horn. Right now Lee Kramka at Saxworx (out on Taraval in the City) keeps my VI in top shape. Nothing like having the horn up to snuff.
 
#53 ·
I should have said Big City prices, meaning the northeast and CA. The rest of the country is more than likely cheaper.....or at least it was just a few years ago. But whatever the case, thankfully here in Europe it isn't that pricey yet.
 
#56 ·
Well, this is the reality that explains why the sage advice on SOTW to posters asking if they should buy X (sax) is that buying into an overhaul on any horn only makes sense if that cost plus the price paid for the sax is less than the market value of the horn. These days for most low cost vintage saxes that is harder and harder to achieve if the cost of a complete rebuild is as high as mentioned here. One has to look at the market and do the new math.
 
#61 ·
I respectfully disagree. That paradigm only makes sense if you intend to bail on the horn and resell (flip) it.

If you know your horns, and are buying an instrument that will be your #1 for the next several years, the resale potential just doesn't matter.

Example: Whether it's a TH&C, Big B, or Borgani Jubilee, investing $1200-1500 in an overhaul will result in a tenor that delivers the goods in every category, and is still less than half the price of that other brand from France.
 
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