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How do you like your metal Link "New Vintage" Tone Master on Tenor ?

9K views 71 replies 20 participants last post by  nitrosax 
#1 ·
I just got one a few weeks back..so far so good.

I actually received it by accident, I ordered a standard STM, but they sent the "Vintage " version instead..I started digging it so I kept it..Like to hear if anybody else plays one of these mpcs. I have searched, but I don't see it as being a huge hit among players, I see it's been produced a long time now..

Mine is finished really well and FWIW it plays pretty darn nice. Grabbed mine for a buck and a half song, much better than a $800 hit or miss real vintage reface.

I got good feedback from Mr PeeBee, He is a Link Guru, but so far he is the only other "New Vintage Tone Master" player I have heard from.

So.. happy Linking gang..PS just for fun I just grabbed a lightly played bread 'n butter Modern Link 7* HR Tone Edge to try, I've been wanting to experiment with a smaller tip size..my metal NVTM is an 8*..this will be a nice contrast I think..
 
#2 ·
I tried a few when they first came out. There was one that was a really nice player that I was thinking about getting. But I played a 'NY' STM at the time and they were pretty darn similar. So I opted not to get it.

I've heard that they put a bit more work into the New Vintage pieces before they go out.
 
#10 ·
I tried a few when they first came out. There was one that was a really nice player that I was thinking about getting. But I played a 'NY' STM at the time and they were pretty darn similar.
Different experience for me. I tried a NVTM and NY STM side by side in the shop, both 7 tip opening. We measured them with a gauge and both were .100. I tried them each with a Vandoren ZZ, V16, and Rigotti Gold Jazz. The NVTM was too stuffy and I couldn't get a sound out of I liked on my horn (TK Melody Harlem Nocturne). The NY STM played great, even though the rails were uneven.

I saw the same thing with the weird tip shape on the NVTM; I really think that is why I couldn't get a good sound out of it.

To the OP - we are all different. If you are loving yours, then by all means smile and keep playing.
 
#3 ·
I have a customer that picked one out of about 10 and loved it but still was experimenting with temporary baffle shapes. I saw it and it was reasonably well made and measured accurately, but the tip profile is so off from any brand of reed I know of, it makes it a lot harder to get the inside reshaped when doing tip and baffle work as the middle will be so much thinner than the corners. Not impossible, but in my mind should be done at the factory.
 
#5 ·
Had one (yrs ago) and sold it.......after I had the facing/table evened and the tip filed to a normal reed tip shape. Broke even on the deal, so I guess I can't complain. It was metal btw.. Have never tried on of the NV HR tenors. Agree, Keith. The folks at Babbitt would do themselves a HUGE favor if their QC was even remotely consistent.
 
#8 ·
I don't know anything about tip overhang, Guessing it refers to the mpc's tip shape vs reed. Yes my Link tip is quite a curve looking shape and doesn't really match my Legere reed perfectly...so I gotta ask now how bad is it..?? how bad does it effect response or ?? again I don't know. Should I dump this thing ??

Can someone illustrate??
 
#9 ·
I got good feedback from Mr PeeBee, He is a Link Guru, but so far he is the only other "New Vintage Tone Master" player I have heard from.

So.. happy Linking gang..PS just for fun I just grabbed a lightly played bread 'n butter Modern Link 7* HR Tone Edge to try, I've been wanting to experiment with a smaller tip size..my metal NVTM is an 8*..this will be a nice contrast I think..
Cash, as you know I own a New Vintage Tone Master 10*, but I don't play it much (only played it a few times privately). It's a nice piece and I like it, but it's not loud enough for what I have to deliver (soloing over a loud Big Band, often without mic) and I own many vintage pieces that perform much better. My main reason to get one was curiousity and to complete my metal Link collection.

I also own an early 80's HR Tone Edge 10* and I really like that one for sound (it's dark, comparable with the NV TM). But it's also not loud enough for my normal playing circumstances. I'm sure you will like your 7*, if it has a decent facing (mine plays effortless, fully standard). Yours will probably be a bit less dark than my 10* because of the smaller tip size.

I don't know anything about tip overhang, Guessing it refers to the mpc's tip shape vs reed. Yes my Link tip is quite a curve looking shape and doesn't really match my Legere reed perfectly...so I gotta ask now how bad is it..?? how bad does it effect response or ?? again I don't know. Should I dump this thing ??

Can someone illustrate??
The two things I don't like of my NV TM are indeed the strange shape of the tip (not fitting any reed I've used on it) and the very small bore size (ruining the cork of your mouthpiece if you are not careful). The misfit of the tip shape with the reeds never really bothered me, but I can imagine that someone more into fast articulation than me could get some issues with it.

I wouldn't dump yours if it doesn't bother you! And if it does, you could always get it reshaped to fit your preferred reed tip shape.
 
#12 ·
I've not played Link mpcs enough to judge the 8* NVTM I got against others, I do notice after playin it on a few gigs that there is sometimes resistance in the palms that I don't like and forget the Alt..it ain't there...oh well live and learn right, I can't understand why they could produce such an out of whack tip shape..ggrrrrr .. I had ordered this on ebay(B stock from a retailer) from pics and description it was supposed to be a standard STM. They sent this"New" vintage by mistake. I thought I scored, but I was unaware of the tip issue or I likely would not have accepted it.It does sound great overall, but like I said, I haven't had a whole lot of experience on it yet.

I just copped a standard HR Tone***. Should be here in a few days..and if it sounds and responds better..? the NVTM will be up for sale.

NOTE Should be "Tone Edge"
 
#16 ·
Sean, the HR Tone Edge 7* Cash is getting is a normal Tone Edge (model of after 1980's). It has a lower baffle and lower floor compared to the old Slants and normally plays much darker and sometimes stuffy in the upper register (because of the huge chamber/low baffle/low floor). Link also has the New Vintage Slant Tone Edge, which is more modeled after the old HR Slant and Early Babbitt (having a higher baffle and floor). They are brighter than the normal Tone Edge model.
 
#14 ·
I just edited my previous post. shoulda said "Tone Edge" (not tonemaster)..it's a 7* rubber standard type I guess, I know it's not the "Vintage" thing. I just hope the tip is true. Should be a good comparison anyway..it comes from a fellow SOTW'er and it's only played once. We gonna find out. I just want a nice dark edge tenor sound,and something free blowing full range.
 
#18 ·
I'm trying not too over analyze this thing too much, at this point I may end up moving them both down the road . But I guess I got that "itis" crap. I'm kinda screwed. Evidently Links ain't really Links anymore.. *** I guess I didn't really do my home work..

Here's the good part the HR 7* Tone Edge showed up, looks good. No wonky tip. Fits the reed like it should. I have no idea yet how she'll sound and I can't really tell til I get it on the gig anyway. I will start the honeymoon asap, I got a mess of reeds on the bench ready to try.
 
#23 ·
I'm trying not too over analyze this thing too much, at this point I may end up moving them both down the road . But I guess I got that "itis" crap. I'm kinda screwed. Evidently Links ain't really Links anymore.. *** I guess I didn't really do my home work..
I've had my share of GottahaveaLinkitis in the past after hearing someone play and sound great on it...even deep funksters like Bob Francheschini or Bob Malach. I've had the chance to play a few highly valued vintage Florida Links, Tenney Links and Benjamin Allen's TD pieces and the like and for some reason they are dead, super dark for me. I have to have something with a smaller chamber and more progressive baffle profile to really pop out there.

A mouthpiece you should really check out is the new D'Addirio Select Jazz. Has a fine projection and plays great in all the ranges. That said, considering I play mainly with wedding/variety bands with horn sections I usually revert back to playing on a metal mouthpiece on tenor and go back to a TW Mantra. All to say, one man's Link is usually a missing Link for me and my chops/oral cavity, etc.
 
#19 ·
Here's what I see and hear so far...the Tone Edge looks to me simply like a basic generic type deep chamber mpc.(but then so does a 2Kmeyer).I couldn't find any obvious defects (couple toothprints), I cleaned her up, found a nice patch for my teeth and fired it up..

first honk impressions.. I had swiped the #2 legere Signature off my NVTM using a basic 2 screw Lig on the Tone edge..the resistance is nil, feels like a cozy warm pair of slippers. Mellow easy to play, the palms are effortless. The #2 reed is probably a bit soft. But I wanted an easier blow than a Super King for a current lo volume restaurant gig.

This thing is super soft, sort of buzzy and warm at the same time. Not even close to the 8* NVTM..I'll need a bit firmer reeds but so far I like core sound a lot
 
#28 ·
It's about the sound. The standard rubber "Tone Edge" I just got is a very nice mpc. I find it has an interesting dark dry-ish quality I like a lot. The 7* .105 tip is pretty easy to play, almost too easy.

FWIW My main Tenor mpcs are a 9*3 Lakey .121 tip, or my DG Super King at .120+...Certainly I sound basically like myself on the Tone Edge, but it's quite obvious my horn sounds and responds differently than with a hi-baffle Guardala.

Now back to what started my Link spiral into Darkness...

I find the modern metal "Link" NV TM 8* is a complete different animal from all my other tenor mpcs. Wonky tip or not, the NVTM is a velvet fog on steroids. I may keep it just for that aspect. I just hate to buy a new mpc then have to have it messed with to play better.. I do admit I'm still not used to it....after 3 jobs it's paid for anyway..


I see the Tone Edge history is incredible.. so many variations, evidently mine is incarnation #7 made after 2010. Good news even though it's a newer one, I read it's made from an orig babbit type mold since destroyed. Gotta be a collectors item 50 yrs from now. I can hardly wait :twisted:
 
#29 ·
These are a lot better when reworked.

I find that asside from factory flaws and the tip not matching the reed the pieces tend to have too long of a facing and the baffle is too low given more modern tip openings. The majority I have played sound dead and are sluggish.

Faced more like a standard STM and with a little extra baffle they can be really nice. Pretty darn dark but they get some life to them.
 
#32 ·
Cash, I think it has some influence on how fast you can articulate (as already mentioned in my earlier reply quoted below). I don't have that issue myself, but I'm by far not the fast articulation type of player. I let my reed fit on the middle of the tip curve, which makes the corners hang over a bit.

The misfit of the tip shape with the reeds never really bothered me, but I can imagine that someone more into fast articulation than me could get some issues with it.
 
#33 ·
Finding the tip rail thickness center and adjusting a Signature on my NVTM is next to impossible for me, I can't see that well. So I adjust by braille and hope for the best, The tip rail on mine is very thin anyway. I don't think a protruding reed is good. I keep my corners back but then the center is close to being back too far because of the wonky curve, kinda sucks for such an otherwise beautiful mpc.

Mine feels like it plays more open than a .115 tip should feel (at least it does to me)..and like I said resistant stuffy palms, and no response at all above G3. Go figure The thing has got a huge subtone and response down low is great..
 
#34 ·
Well forget my old modern new vintage NV TM dilemma for now..I don't want to think about it just yet..

I decided to get real with the rubber Tone edge 7*..my first impression with #2 Sig reed was not a bad first impression, so OK let's get more..

After a good 3 hr reed A/B'ing session that included 5 synths plus a few real canes later I was in a mess. Nothing sounded right, gettin' worse by the minute, I had even shaved a soft Bari clear in desperation..after a good 20+ min just shaving (4 times ) that sucker was dying on the vine.. hell you guys been there..I quit..came back after a bowl and put the shaved Bari on my 9*3 Lakey tenor mpc just for kicks and it Buzzes beautifully, it's gonna sound good..oh well at least I don't have to trash it. Each mpc has it's own choices don't it?..

FWIW I use a shaved clear Bari soft reed on my Lakey 8*3 alto HR mpc, it is an incredible combo. And my DG's are liking Fibras only..go figure.

But whatever, at this point the damn TE had me a bit frustrated...OK it's Miller time..

..then I realize I had one more choice..I had just taken a reed off my Lakey that I hadn't tried on the Tone Edge. It's an old crappy-looking brown thing, an unknown size Bundy synth that probably came to me in a horn I bought 20 yrs ago...I had only used it as a Lig holder. Well WTH I had tried everything else had short of some soft cane Ricos and Flying Gooses..so not even thinking I threw it on my 400 tenor..turned on my PA and smooth jazz backup.

Man I gotta say, wow..this thing is ridiculous..on that meager little 7* tonemaster it lit a fire..damn it's sweet. Funky, Ballsy rich and smooth, the thing really woke up...perfect resistance, the 7* is a very comfortable tip for me, just breathe in it, it subs with a very rich tone or blow hard as I want, doesn't break up or thin.. ho ho time to jam..it does retain the dark Link quality I like. This could be the mpc I was looking for to get that Link sound. My reed search will start fresh too..the Bundy reed is a good benchmark it feels and sounds far better than anything else I have tried.

Well breaking this mpc in it took me at least 8 reeds trial to finally stumble across the "Bundy" ..The best synth currently available in my trials was the Signature, but my #2 is too soft. Then I tried 3 Fibracells, different strengths..no way..I do have some real canes, but mine are too soft for a 7* tip..honestly I prefer synth anyway.. It'll take more reed research for sure, but so far I'm pretty impressed. More so than with the NV TM.

This whole Link idea for me is an alternative to my Guardala sound, I love my Lakey too, flexible versatile and always dependable, but also on the bright side..For certain situations I want a "Dark" sound and easier blowing overall than either of my big stage mpcs. This Tone Edge so far is very impressive .
 
#35 ·
I should say the Tone Edge price was impressive too..pre-owned less than $100..better than spending $400-$500 and maybe ain't that great, then lose yer *****..I been there, I've realized some really hyped stuff has proved to be no better than your basic mpcs,I think this Link might prove that point.

I confess to both sides. My Sakshama Custom alto mpc cost a fortune but worth every penny..priceless to me anyway.:bluewink:
 
#36 ·
My experience with low baffle big chamber mouthpieces like modern Tone Edge's is that they need an active/bright and not too soft reed to perform well. I have a 10* Tone Edge and with that tip size it's even more critical than with a 7* (which will sound brighter because of the smaller tip).

I recently recorded my Tone Edge 10* again with a fresh La Voz medium and loved the sub tones and flexibility. In the upper register is actually a bit harder for me to get a full and projecting tone, but that could also be me (and the very big tip opening). Here is an example clip:

- 'Blues in Gm' [concert key] (Tone Edge 10* - La Voz medium) - gypsy style:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13555351

Also did last year a compare clip with the Tone Edge 10* and my main piece (a metal Florida no USA 10*), both played with a soft Rico Royal 2 reed. The 50's Otto link Florida no USA 10* is mixed on the left channel (solo starts at 0:58) and the 80's Otto Link Tone Edge 10* on the right channel (solo starts at 1:53).

- ' Black Orpheus' (Florida no USA 10* (left) - Tone Edge 10* (right) - Rico Royal 2):
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13431843
 
#39 ·
I've been playing a NVTM as my main piece for the past couple years but I've only recently noticed that mine appears more lopsided than others. I've never really had any issues with it, I've always gotten close to the sound I want with it, but I ordered a Sakshama piece the other day so I suspect I'll be switching over.
 
#42 ·
I stumbled across a demo of a New Vintage metal Tone Master tenor player on YouTube..Beauutiful...!!!! (wish I could recall who it was)..my NV TM is a handful at 8*


I thought maybe I would pass on this mpc and actually have it listed it the FS section. but I'm playing it today trying some different reeds and man this thing really opens up and sings with the right reeds. After laying off it a couple days with a fresh approach I heard sounds and felt response that I really dig.. I don't think it's for sale anymore at this point. I bought a modern HR 7* Tone Edge to compare the 2, which is not bad at all, just a lot different tone than the vintage metal for sure.. but after today the Metal new Vintage showed a new dimension.
 
#43 ·
A month has passed and I thought I would update my trials with the 8* NV TM.

During the month for fun I played a gig on a modern rubber Link standard Tone Edge 7* that I recently picked up for a song.. FWIW it plays and sounds fine, and I could easily play it as a working piece in certain settings. But to be honest I have mpcs I like better...

So yesterday I played the metal 8* modern vintage Link on my weekly soft Jazz Brunch and I must say it's turning into something very nice. By the end of the show I could feel a new sense of familiarity with the mpc. Very nice indeed..I think this mpc (so far) is still a keeper.
 
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