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Super 20 Fan Club

318K views 1K replies 236 participants last post by  Instrument Attic 
G
#1 ·
We're baa-aaaack! Super 20 players, stand up and be counted.

Super 20 tenor, 364xxx, silver neck, brass bell, no pearls on the side :(

I've had this horn since 1974 (sophomore year high school). Dad paid $75 for the horn, then another $100 for a complete overhaul/relacquer (it needed it).

Despite what you may have read, these are very flexible horns, adaptable to all musical styles. The combination of the sterling silver neck along with bore taper/neck curve/bow curve allows the Super 20 tenors to bring out the best in a variety of mouthpiece setups.
 
#615 ·
Well, I think it is about time I joined the club as well. I've read all 27 pages and I'm up to speed. I have 3 Super 20's (very late mint Alto SilverSonic, Tenor with silver neck and fully pearls and Bari (with original gold lacquer).

The tenor is my favorite, it plays like hell, so free blowing that it amazes me every time I play.

Something is wrong with the Silversonic. I plays very heavely and every thing below the G' is impossible to blow consistantly. A leak or another problem needs to be resolved here but my tech couldn't find the suspected leak??? The condition of the horn is extremely nice though!!!

For the Bari I need to find a decent mouthpiece. I have Selmer C* which is not suitable for the horn and I have a Meyer on loan which is a bit better but still not as good as a Jody Jazz ESP which I borrowed briefly at a sax meeting. With tat mpc the horn opened up and blowed me out of my socks!!! Strangly the horn doesn't have a site guard which a colleague Super 20 Bari in the same range did have...

regards,
Rob
 
#631 ·
Something is wrong with the Silversonic. I plays very heavely and every thing below the G' is impossible to blow consistantly. A leak or another problem needs to be resolved here but my tech couldn't find the suspected leak??? The condition of the horn is extremely nice though!!!
Well my tech has been able to fix the problem and the horn blows now as intended. Beautifull beast!!! I'm looking forward to my praticing session later today...

(PS a bit sad I'm responding on my own mails here...)
 
#623 ·
tedrampart,

Yours is probably the baddest pawnshop deal ever!

Anyway, Super 20 altos are known for being mouthpiece-selective and some, not all, have intonation problems. The Link should be good, but it is hard to recommend a mouthpiece for you if we don't know what kind of music you play and what kind of sound you like on your alto. My random shot would be metal Yanagisawa.

Good luck!
 
#624 ·
tedrampart,

Yours is probably the baddest pawnshop deal ever!

Anyway, Super 20 altos are known for being mouthpiece-selective and some, not all, have intonation problems. The Link should be good, but it is hard to recommend a mouthpiece for you if we don't know what kind of music you play and what kind of sound you like on your alto. My random shot would be metal Yanagisawa.

Good luck!
+1 to Charlie Parker!
 
#629 ·
a good story ... back in '81 when I was buying my 1st pro-horn, I went into Wurlitzer Music in Boston and met with Hartley the woodwinds salesman. He tried to talk me into buying a used SilverSonic tenor in great condition, but I held fast to the "newer is better" philosophy and bought a new Couf Superba I tenor, partly swayed by the slick marketing brochures and the fact that Grover played one. Years later when I sold the Couf, I regretted not buying the King from Hartley. Fast forward to 2006 and through a horn repair guy in Boston I was connected to Tom Goodwin in Central Mass who had 3 SilverSonics for sale. I played all three and bought the best of the bunch. The price ... nearly 4 times more than I could have bought the SilverSonic from Hartley ! Needless to say, after 25 years I became a proud member of the Super 20 (SilverSonic) Fan Club.
 
#633 ·
hah I kind of like not being liked here for this, I guess it makes me feel warm inside? burning warm.. actually its getting rather hot.. please stop making voodoo dolls of me and setting them ablaze..

as for the sound, I play mostly funk, and enjoy the maceo sound, but I also listen to a lot of Parker, Desmond, Bostic, Cannonball .. I've been using my hardrubber Buffet piece mostly with a 2.5 Legere reed.. so far its been working well. the link sounds better, but my homemade lig doesn't fit the synthetic reed (gotta make a new lig I guess). I also ordered a link tone edge off someone on here, just waiting to have him send it. I thought about trying a meyer custom by phil tone. I'll look around and see if the yani is a good option. I'm getting rather tired of the buffet, its okay, but not great, sounds good in a band setting though, just not solo.
 
#634 ·
Since I have never actually played a Silversonic alto, I cannot give you my unqualified opinion of what will work. However, I imagine that it would look cool (the horn, not you) with a white mouthpiece such as a Lamberson in Delrin. If you are lucky, you might get it for a steal of $430 (If you find one for $50, we do not want to know about it). Otherwise, I suggest to include Vandorens in your consideration. Inexpensive and consistently well-crafted with a wide selection of tip openings, baffles, and chambers.

Perhaps the voodoo would work better if you posted a pic of yourself, preferably an unflattering one.
 
#636 ·
Perhaps the voodoo would work better if you posted a pic of yourself, preferably an unflattering one.
hah, I have yet to see a flattering pic of myself!

Why go Lamberson when you should go OTTO LINK! RAWR! :)
I have an otto link STM, and soon to have an otto link tone edge (once it ships), which one are you referring to?
 
#635 ·
Wait till you check out those sterling bell King Super 20s without the Silversonic stamps... now that will put a vendetta or a mark on your head. Or those collectors King Super 20s. How would you react if you do see that brasscane? ^^

Why go Lamberson when you should go OTTO LINK! RAWR! :)
 
#643 ·
Step 1) http://www.hnwhite.com/hnwhitepage part two.htm which states that the move to Eastlake was in 1964.
Step 2) What was the serial number of the last Cleveland horn. Doubtful we'll know for sure, but a reasonable guess would be the mid-range of the 1964 production
Step 3) Anyone *know* for sure what that is?

Thang, you around? Can you talk to that?
 
#644 ·
Jason,

It is nice to see you drop in here.

As for the serial number during which King moved to Eastlake from Cleveland, Saxpics has it at around 426,000. Apparently, what this could mean is that some of the horns that some body tubes and bells were made in the Cleveland before the move were brought to and engraved Eastlake. So, it could be that some early Eastlake horns were actually made in Cleveland but stamped a serial number later than 426,XXX. Now this is just my own theory.

Turnaround, are you around? You know more about Super 20's than anyone here, I think.
 
#645 ·
Jason,

...... what this could mean is that some of the horns that some body tubes and bells were made in the Cleveland before the move were brought to and engraved Eastlake. So, it could be that some early Eastlake horns were actually made in Cleveland but stamped a serial number later than 426,XXX. Now this is just my own theory......
Yes, I agree...this is a real world theory.
 
#646 ·
Several people on this site know a boatload about Super 20s. In addition to the aforementioned honorable individuals, Xax, Robert_Allen, Schmulyejosef, etc. may know when the switch took place. I cannot remember his name off the top of my head but the guy who now is behind the HN White "brand" might also know. He regularly sells Super 20s on the bay and makes cases for them.

FWIW, I purchased a 426K Eastlake for a friend in Denmark. Played like gangbusters...almost as good as my 477K.:TGNCHK:
 
#651 ·
Re. the King move to Eastlake. I was out to my friend Jack T's today and asked him about the correlation between the "Made in Cleveland" engraving on saxophone bells and the serial number lists. As i have mentioned in several past posts, Jack was an instrument tech(best of the half-dozen) at the Eastlake factory from ca.1968-75. He said that for all King instruments there were parts that were made in Cleveland that were in inventory and would occasionally end up on Eastlake horns, even as late as 1975.

These included engraved bells. He said saxophones in particular might have a good many "made in Cleveland" parts because they were making substantially fewer saxophones than the other instruments (not sure if he meant all saxes or just S20s?). He added that "they were always complaining that they were losing money on saxophones"...

Seems that the Cleveland plant was completely shut down for the move but they didn't take "every last stick". They sold off some outdated equipment because they had installed a lot of brand new machinery at Eastlake; he specifically mentioned buffing and lacquering equipment as among what was not taken to Eastlake. He bought some of that Cleveland equipment and to this day still owns a few pieces including a couple of mandrels for large brass and a humongous buffer.

I was asking him whether he was still certain that the resonator pads in my recently acquired Series II full pearls tenor were original equipment (slightly domed metal resos). He said that for the "artist" horns they used a different pad...apparently harder felt and perhaps some other differences. He has a set from "back in the day" and tried to find them while I was there but to no avail. I'm sure they'll turn up and when they do I'll post pics/info about them. His comment about these was that he was told by the factory that they were "very expensive" and were only for the horns of King artists/endorsers.

Other bits of info from past visits: he showed me a prototype for a certain King metal mouthpiece. It was hard rubber(or plastic?)...it was used as the model for some or other King metal mpc. Apparently, they had a department that designed mpcs? When i compared his to my very old brass(gold-plated) Wolfe Tayne 7, they looked very similar(inside). I think that unit came with my first Ser II S20FP tenor which i bought (used) ca1973. Recently, I saw a metal King tenor mpc on eBay and from "this distance" it looked "identical" to a WT, especially the joint on the side. As for whether or not that means anything, your guess is at least as good as mine.:cool:
 
#652 ·
OK, here's my "new" King Super 20 tenor (313,XXX). I've never seen a King tri-pac case before so i thought i'd post this pic of my King in its case. It didn't come with the clarinet case but i remembered that my tech had a tri-pack clarinet case in the shop. It turned out to be a King...he'd used it for years to keep his Selmer in and he was willing to trade my older Selmer-Bundy case for this King case... Yaay!

But y'all want to know, how does it play? Mmmm...plays real nice!:cool:
 

Attachments

#656 ·
Congrats! It looks...Super. Original end plug as well, which are hard to come by.
Thanks guys, I'm really enjoying this horn...for the first coupla weeks i didn't even play it...just would look at it in disbelief.

I've gotten over that initial shock and settled in for some (by my standards)serious wood-shedding. I went thru a month or so of testing Java reeds and have settled on 2 1/2 Java reds for my preferred tone. I had worked up to 3 1/2s and was not liking them all that much. Then last w/e, i listened back thru recording equipment and found that the edge/buzz was too light until i went back down to the 2 1/2s.

Now, I'm liking things a whole lot more!
 
#654 ·
It's time for me to declare myself a fan.
It's also taken 20 years to concede to myself and another 2 years to admit it!
When I started playing I was as green as they come.
In the 1st place a horn had to be shiny and the only place for sax's was 80's pop right :help:.
There after, everyone I was listening to played a Selmer or at least an expensive modern horns with great ergonomics.
Worthy of note is the fact that back then, there was a huge gap between a Czechoslovakian made horn and entry level yamaha's and the like, let alone pro series prices.
Well, despite admiring the look of some other vintage horns, the guys I listened to who were both famous and not so famous had set the ambition in my mind.

Since then I have only bothered with well reputed modern horns including Selmers from SBA ---> to MKVII.
I don't think any of them have been off the mark either, it was a good way to go and I have loved them all.
I spent time over the years (pre internet days) trawling the sax shops in the south of England and every time I picked up a King, a Conn of whatever to try they were usually battered and the ergo's were way too much for me to handle.
I just didn't get it, there was no competition for the direction I had taken regarding modern ergo's snubbing anything awkward.

Well here we are in 2010 and one of those horns from the rejection list has just refused to leave me alone, The King super 20!
Every time I embark on a journey of sax related resource, be it you tube, SOTW, recordings or what ever up pops the iconic name or a picture of one.
It was a fair few years ago when I changed my mind on the looks of the things, this also ran just got more and more appealing year upon year.
The sound was never really in doubt either but as Wilton Felder figured more and more in my ideals it went from being a great sound to the being the business. I still love plenty of other sounds (some are miles away from Wilton) mind you, but the King is the icing on the cake.
Finally, with 22 years under my belt I caved in and bought one...
I can do the ergo's on a series V at least without a problem.
No monsterous issues with tuning and my other horns have been feeling neglected for a while now because I can't put the damn thing down.
 
#659 ·
What a great post guys. I am in UK. For twenty five years i have wanted a "20". Done all other US big bores. The right "20"..has always eluded me. I played a "Zephyr" bari for years....until it got crushed. No Tahitian hoofers involved....that is one funny story man. Right now using " Martin47-50. And a "Phil Barone vintage"...copper finish. I would have agreed; the American big bore tenor....is a bygone thing. Made in Taiwan....it does not exactly count. Regardless....the "Bigness of it is remarkable". I am off....."Levelaire 9"....on tenor. I used same for years...great mpc. See you later....ade
 
#662 ·
I'll throw my vote to the Super 20 as well. #484xxx Eastlake Super 20 that I bought brand new around 1973 or '74. I had a choice of the Super 20 at one store, a Mark VI at another store. The salesman with the Mark VI wouldn't even let me touch it or play it unless I bought it first. I ended up with the Super 20 (not silversonic). I use an older Meyer 5M that I bought in the 70's with a new Rico H ligature and Rico Royal 3's. I love the sound I get on this Super 20...as others have said, it can peel paint off the walls....but I can also get it soft as a feather. I love the versatility of the Super 20.
Had a complete repad done on it this year and am thoroughly pleased with the work my local tech did. I know of people that travel over an hour to West Warwick, RI to have him do work on their saxes. (Shameless plug for you Dean...but you're that good.)
I'm still experimenting on the right set up for my Buescher Bari....and just got 2 mouthpieces from Mojo Mouthpiece. Loving the Rousseau so far...but will really give it a workout Monday night.
 
#663 ·
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