Vintage saxes vs. modern saxes and technology - Page 5

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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Vintage saxes vs. modern saxes and technology

    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    well cars ain't that different (that is modern vs. vintage) the basic principles still apply. I think that the refinements in electronic management and upoholstery and comfort items are distracting you from the bigger picture.
    I've got to disagree. I still remember replacing tires every 10,000 to 12,000 miles, grinding valves every 40,000 miles or so, and replacing engines well before 100,000 miles. Everything on today's cars lasts much longer. Modern sedans handle better than most vintage sports cars. Windshield wipers no longer stop when you accelerate. Brakes don't quit working after going through a puddle of water. And speaking of brakes, there's no thrill like driving an old car with mechanical brakes. They still have four wheels, an engine and transmission, but all in all, cars have changed immensely.
    "Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your intelligence to buy a drink ..." e.e. cummings

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  3. #82
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    Default Re: Vintage saxes vs. modern saxes and technology

    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    Evolution is not necessarily better (nor guarantees better results) I guess that for people blowing lightbulbs by breath, the automation process would have mean more years to live (if they could find other jobs!) but as you have to break some eggs to make certain foods, it takes people devoting their lifes and health for craftin fine products.

    Key word here is PASSION. I believe that older makers were all about pride, joy and passion of actually believing they were aiming to produce the best saxophone out there. Nowadays if you want to play ball you just have to have money and talk to some people in taiwan to craft you next line of (insert your brand name) custom (other hype name) (insert sax voice here) And they're all about making the biggest profit they can out of literally color stones, feathers, bangles, bubbles and beads.
    To stretch the evolution analogy a bit (a lot actually), natural evolution (that which occurs in nature) is an extremely hit-and-miss, messy, process. The vast majority of genetic mutations are total disasters and are not carried forward. A tiny, tiny percentage of mutations turn out to be advantageous and are passed on, thereby resulting in LONG term, incremental improvement to species and variation of species. Now that I think about it, evolution by natural selection is actually a very poor analogy to any sort of "evolution" of a musical instrument. The difference is, changes to an instrument are not random and not accidental.

    Which leads to the question: What actual changes have been made to the saxophone in recent years, and why? I think if you examine this, you will see that economic parameters loom large, and money is the key motivation (as jicaino says), which does not necessarily result in a better product.

    Here's the really good news, and also part of the answer to why many of us choose the vintage instruments: You can still get your hands on the great saxophones of the past today for a reasonable price, and there are more techs than ever who are overhauling these instruments so they play as good as new. To those who say this is just starry-eyed romanticism, I'd say this wouldn't be happening if the modern horns were truly better instruments.

  4. #83
    Distinguished SOTW Member rleitch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage saxes vs. modern saxes and technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Mactenor View Post
    The best sounding tenor that I ever had was a 1942 Buescher Big B, and like the idiot that I occasionally become, I let it get away from me. I have a great Randy Jones Reference 36 now, but I sure do miss that Buescher
    I think this illustrates JL's point perfectly: I would choose the Buescher over the Selmer not because vintage horns are better per se, but because I might actually be able to afford the Buescher.

    R.
    Martin "Dick Stabile" Tenor: Barone Jazz 7*/GW7

    "The spiritual life is built upon a commitment to truth telling and truth living. As master jazz musicians, [John Coltrane and Miles Davis] presented their spirituality within the reality of cool." --Farah Jasmine Griffen and Salim Washington

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  6. #84
    Distinguished SOTW Member jaleelshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage saxes vs. modern saxes and technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    What did you try that you liked?
    I'm trying to remember what I tried that I liked.. I know I tried a few Yanigisawas, the new Selmer reference with the brushed lacquer, a Yamaha Z... Can't really remember the others... What I do remember was how even all the horns were.. But.. but maybe a GOOD overhaul and tweaked set up could make my horn pop out those high notes too... I just remember those horns feeling like Mack trucks compared to a IV. I wasn't into the action or weight of the horns.

  7. #85
    Forum Contributor 2007 jacobeid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage saxes vs. modern saxes and technology

    For altos I've owned a selmer series III, buescher aristocrat, "the martin" alto, transitional 6m, a mark VI, and a mark VII. For tenors I've owned a buescher aristocrat stencil, a pre-war 10m, and my yanagisawa.

    I've come to realize that I sound like myself (which I believe is a good sound) on any horn. The differences between horns is slim if at all. So why would I kill myself on the low Bb to low C# when I could use a horn with modern mechanics and be able to fly through it sounding just as good?

    I used buy into the "vintage" sound thing. That was until I recorded myself playing a buescher aristocrat, one of the darkest most sultry sounding altos, and a custom Z, arguably one of the most bright and thin. Guess what? When listening back I could hardly tell the difference. I would have taken comfort over any difference in sound.

    You may ask then why I play vintage selmer altos when I think modern horns sound just as good. I had the money and I played a mark VI that really pushed my buttons so I bought it. I also have a soft spot for alto BA's so I may sell my VII for one.

    When it comes down to it, I think the mouthpiece and player play a much larger role in the sound than the sax. But to each his own.
    Alto-Mark VI 118xxx, Mouthpiece Cafe New York Cafe Bros., Hemke 3, bonade inverted.
    Backup: Mark VII 284xxx
    Tenor-Yanagisawa T991, Mouthpiece Cafe Bergonzi Slant Supreme, RJS filed 3S, FL brass.
    Soprano-Yanagisawa S991, Yanagisawa HR 5, La Voz MH

  8. #86
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    Default Re: Vintage saxes vs. modern saxes and technology

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny View Post
    Particularly in the palm keys, low c/Eb spatulas and the main stack table.
    I dunno...I have a Keilwerth SX90R tenor and those adjustable palm keys are amazing IMO
    Thing thing about funk is that funk reveals the truth.

    And the the truth is, you ain't got no funk.

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