There has been a discussion regarding the weight of soprano saxophones. Let's clear up the matter once and for all.
Here are the rules:
1) Weight should be in both pounds and grams (if possible)
2) Include Make, Model, Finish, and Serial Number (23,xxx)
3) Include year of manufacter (if known)
NO MOUTHPIECES - Just the saxophone.
I'll go first.
1977 Mark VI Selmer 169,XXX Lacquer Finish 2 Pounds 10.5oz 1205Grams
Are MODERN sopranos (less than 20 years old) HEAVIER than Vintage?
The only way to find out is to weigh as many sopranos as possible. Let's END THE MYTH - weigh your horn and let's get the answer. No need to overthink the question.
Getting more interested in this, it seems that modern horns, within a couple of ounces only, weigh about the same as vintage ones.
But that makes me wonder, if there is more key work on a modern horn, shouldn't that have a more significant effect on weight (take off the keys that a vintage sop doesn't have and put them on the scale - how much do they weigh?)?
If modern and vintage weigh the same, then, are we seeing thinner metal on the bodies, different alloy mixes, other changes?
Are these refinements and changes manufacturing improvements, or decrease production costs at the expense of musical characterisctics?
Or is the weight of the extra keys insignificant such as to make this thread irrelevant?....
I wish I had a digital scale. I beleive my Selmer Super Action 80 series II soprano has a darker tone than my daughters Yanagisawa SC-991 because it is a heavy brass sax. The super 80 does weigh more and have thicker brass than the Yani SC-991. If I get a hold of a digital scale I will post results. I love both sopranos(I borrow my daughter's from time to time)both both sound distinctly differant!!!!!!!!
i think we are getting too serious. lets face it at 56 and not a fulltime player my hand fatigues easier so i like a lighter sop. younger cats and regular players have no problems with this. i like what one of our fellow posters always incudes at the end--GO FOR THE TONE.
you want a lighter soprano
yet you quote Doctor G "go for the tone"
What do you want light or great sound? If the horn you like doesn't have a hook, have your tech put one on. A strap will make any soprano easier to wrangle.
My soprano:
Yamaha 875-EX in silver plate
Manufactured in 2006
ser 0071xx
I don't know that it's nerdy. I think it's important info, especially if you play a lot of soprano. They're much heavier than an oboe, English horn, or clarinet. Yet I see plenty of young clarinet players use neckstraps because of the weight of the instruments.
I you have a problem holding a soprano, and if one brand/model is significantly lighter, that could be an important choice for you.
Collecting data is a must in science but saxophone playing is an art. No amount of data-taking in this regard will lead anyone to any valid assertions. Ergo I just play the damn horns.
Jupiter Artist Sop. 3lbs. with no mpc.
Big difference in mouthpieces. HR 10 oz./Metal 30 oz.
It seems that any weight variation of a sax can be greatly altered by a mpc.
Collecting data is a must in science but saxophone playing is an art. No amount of data-taking in this regard will lead anyone to any valid assertions. Ergo I just play the damn horns.
Oddly enough, I was at a professional development session at school the other day with some edumacational 'experts' discussing analyzing data from students, and we were supposed to come up with causes for student difficulties.
Teachers have been beaten to death lately with 'best practices' and 'scientific' and 'research based' and 'data driven' teaching strategies. When I pointed out that we were just guessing because you can't argue cause from data correlations (Stats 201), the reply was that teaching is an 'art' not a 'science'.
Weighing a soprano is pretty simple data taking. I think that if you measure the weight of a soprano and get it right withing +/- 1/2 ounce, you can make some valid assertions.
Weighing a soprano is pretty simple data taking. I think that if you measure the weight of a soprano and get it right withing +/- 1/2 ounce, you can make some valid assertions.
Valid assertions towards what? That heavier sopranos sound "better"? What are we correlating? Something that's objective (weight) to something that's totally subjective (sound)?
There are no valid assertions to this end. Are we gonna compare Coltrane's sound on a "light" Mk VI soprano to the sound of what is likely a heavier soprano in the Keilwerth played by Liebman?
Enlighten me here. What does the weight of a soprano prove with regards to its sound?
The general assertion is that NEW sopranos weigh MORE than OLD sopranos due to the extra keywork. This may or may NOT be true. If each members weighs his or her soprano on a fairly accurate scale we can get this answer.
The process of weighing a soprano is absolutely NOT subjective.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TONE, Playability, Thumbrest placement. Etc.
I'm not sure why this is generating any debate. It's a simply psuedo-scientific question. Weigh your sopranos and let's compare.
Indeed, I've heard assertions that some sops are heavier than others. So far, they're pretty close.
If I want to get a lighter sop because the son of a gun makes my right hand hurt after awhile, I'd like to know which sops are lighter. I can make just about any sop sound pretty good, I'm told.
My teacher sold me a YSS-61 thirty years ago, and one of the comments about it was that it was lighter than some other sops, inlcuding MK VIs, including the one he was getting--a brand new YSS-62.
The assertions are that modern saxes with more keywork weigh more than vintage saxes. So far, the data seems to be showing that that is an incorrect assertion.
SaxyAcoustician said:
There are people here who correlate sound with weight of horn which is why I'm keeping the particular discussion open. It's rather preposterous.
Anecdotal evidence only:
I play a 1926 Buescher TT bare brass straight soprano.
It weighs in at 2 lbs 9 oz.
I got a chance to try out a Yamaha YSS 475.
It weighs in at an even 3 lbs.
Ouch!
Say all you want about those extra ounces not making a difference.
Give gravity a set or two to work its magic on your arms and thumb, and then tell me there's no difference.
And no: I will not where a strap just so that I can play a heavier sax.
Not one person on this thread has made an assertion linking a horn's weight to its sound--the discussion you're keeping open is only with yourself.
As Houston, Hakukani, and others (including me) have said now several times, the weight question is a matter of interest for those who devote most or all of their time to soprano. Hand/arm/shoulder fatigue is a big issue for such players. A few ounces do make a difference, and neckstraps are not the answer for most. It's true, as somebody above said, that the topic is a bit wonky, but it's certainly not pointless.
Of course one's sound can suffer if the level of fatigue is increased. If your thumb and arms are tired or hurt, this can add to your general tension which includes the embouchure.
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