Rico Royal Metalite Fans! - Page 68

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  1. #1341
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    The M9 is mellower than the M7 which is more like the BW, although the BW can be pushed more so be louder. With a synthetic reed it can really peel the wallpaper back. There are a lot of Irish Pubs in Spain and they're just that, Irish Pubs except in Spain. The barmen are all Irish, they have Guinness and other Irish beers on Tap, Irish whiskey of course, and often have live music. They're fun places to hang out because you can meet a lot of nice people, often Brits and Irish tourists of course, but also ones who are expats too. Lots of nice women go there and it's usually much livelier than your average Spanish or Catalan bar. This jam every Wednesday night is a lot of fun and I've been going since it began in September. My friend Joe Psalmist, who is a musician from Nigeria living here, runs it. He's one of the nicest people I know and a great musician who always gets things going in a good groove and mood.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
    'We're going all the way 'till the wheels fall off and burn.
    Till the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies'.

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  3. #1342

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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    That sounds prettty cool.

  4. #1343

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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    I now have the full alto collection with current production (smooth body) M5 and M7, and a (discontinued, textured) M9; did they make an M11? I have an M5 tenor piece on the way. I'm pretty happy with my current tenor setup, and the piece I have coming has a significantly smaller tip opening than I'm used to. We'll see.

    Controversial statement: I think the only thing preventing me from making one of the Metalites my primary alto piece is knowing how much I paid for my Lawton. Don't get me wrong, the Lawton is a great piece and I love playing it, but I'm constantly surprised by how much I enjoy playing these little chunks of plastic!
    Soprano - Antigua Winds 590-BC Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Olegature; Rascher, Legere Signature, Rovner Dark
    Alto - Yamaha YAS-875EXB Metalite M5, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Legere Classic, Rovner Dark
    Tenor - Yamaha YTS-62 Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark

  5. #1344
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Is there a secret to playing the Metalite Mouthpieces? Is it the reed used or possibly the amount of air put through the mouthpiece, more relaxation, more time with the piece or some combination of all this?
    It would seem to be that players either like them a lot or they are horrible.
    I previously tried them on tenor using different, mostly Martin horns, and they did not work for me so I sold all 3, the M5, M7 and M9.
    When I bought a 10M last year, I thought I would try them again so I bought a M5 and M7 and once again it was the same scenario.
    Last week I bought a M5 for my Conn New Wonder Bari and to me it plays like the tenor pieces, thin sounding and shrill. Other player seem to like these, what am I missing?
    I really wanted this to work and at the lower cost was going to mess around with making it a double chamber piece to play in tune through the range of this old bari.
    My first tenor piece was a Graftonite which played descent overall, but the Metalites are not doing it for me.
    I will most likely get a B5 Graftionite (would like to find a used one on the cheap) for this bari and attempt the double chamber thing as this M5 is not doing it.

  6. #1345

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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Quote Originally Posted by jth121 View Post
    Is there a secret to playing the Metalite Mouthpieces? Is it the reed used or possibly the amount of air put through the mouthpiece, more relaxation, more time with the piece or some combination of all this?
    Well, they're not for everyone, and if you can't make them work just move on. On the other hand, as with pretty much all other mouthpieces playing around with different reeds could help. For example, on my other mouthpieces, which lean toward darker tone, Fibracells add a nice brightness; on Metalites they're a little too bright and buzzy (for my tastes). For me Forestone Black Bamboo and Legere Studio are a little darker, and offer a fuller, less brittle tone. If I can find my stash of cane reeds I'll try to give them a blow and see what works.
    Soprano - Antigua Winds 590-BC Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Olegature; Rascher, Legere Signature, Rovner Dark
    Alto - Yamaha YAS-875EXB Metalite M5, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Legere Classic, Rovner Dark
    Tenor - Yamaha YTS-62 Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark

  7. #1346
    Jazz Is All's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Quote Originally Posted by jth121 View Post
    Is there a secret to playing the Metalite Mouthpieces? Is it the reed used or possibly the amount of air put through the mouthpiece, more relaxation, more time with the piece or some combination of all this?
    It would seem to be that players either like them a lot or they are horrible.
    I previously tried them on tenor using different, mostly Martin horns, and they did not work for me so I sold all 3, the M5, M7 and M9.
    When I bought a 10M last year, I thought I would try them again so I bought a M5 and M7 and once again it was the same scenario.
    Last week I bought a M5 for my Conn New Wonder Bari and to me it plays like the tenor pieces, thin sounding and shrill. Other player seem to like these, what am I missing?
    I really wanted this to work and at the lower cost was going to mess around with making it a double chamber piece to play in tune through the range of this old bari.
    My first tenor piece was a Graftonite which played descent overall, but the Metalites are not doing it for me.
    I will most likely get a B5 Graftionite (would like to find a used one on the cheap) for this bari and attempt the double chamber thing as this M5 is not doing it.
    I never liked the Graftonite I was given as a freebie. Too ordinary sounding. Then again it was many years ago before I knew all the things I have learned since about mpcs and setups.

    Personally I haven't had anything but good experiences with my Metalite tenor pieces and don't get why people say they aren't good sounding pieces. Personally I think it is that people get accustomed to playing one brand or hardness of reed on a piece that they know really well and then when they get a different piece they automatically play it with that reed and expect it to play just like on their other piece. This is a fallacious idea especially when you change types of mpc design. Sure, if you play a low baffle round chamber piece and get one by a different mpc maker, the chances are that that will work for you if they are both basically the same chamber size, tip opening and facing curve.

    However if you change from one of those to a high baffle piece, any high baffle piece, you can't expect that at all. High baffle pieces are brighter and/or louder by design. I repeat, they play differently by design and if you don't know how to adjust to that difference or can't do it because you don't like the sound, well just stay with the type of piece you already have, know and like. I have heard this very same complaint as long as I've been playing and learning about mpcs. People on here have said it for years about all the SS Bergs, the Brilhart Level Air and basically any slim-design high-baffle metal mpc. They even nicknamed them Peashooters, as if to say that they are a toy or something lacking in power and potency. I find that laughable because most of these "peashooters" are somehow also called "paint-peelers" because with one of them you can blow one of these naysayers right off the stage right and blow out his eardrums in the process.

    That truth said however, it depends on what type of reed you match the mpc with because it's only logical that a naturally bright and/or loud mpc will be at its brightest/loudest with a bright reed and conversely it will be mellower and darker with a darker traditional or classical type reed. N'cest pas? In other words, you can't expect to get dark and mellow sound playing a Marca Jazz, or a Rigotti Gold or a Plasticover or most any synthetic reed on one of these piece. You have to switch to the darker reeds like the Vandoren Trads, or Rico Royal or even a classical reed. It's only logical.

    So to say that the M9 is thin sounding to me just means that you are playing a reed that is too bright for the sound you want to get. Again keep in mind that the smaller the tip opening of a high-baffle mpc, the louder and brighter it will play. This is because the reed is closer to the curve, tip and baffle. The more open a piece you get the more it will mellow out simply because the reed is farther off the curve, tip and baffle. Hence, as I have written before, the M7 is the loudest/brightest of the 3 tenor pieces: M7, M9, M11. Naturally you need more chops to play the more open piece and so may have to use a softer reed depending on what you are accustomed to.

    I just did a test to see the difference between reeds on my M7 and M9 and found that with a Rico Royal and a La Voz they play darker and not quite as loud as with the Rigotti and Rico Select Jazz reeds I normally play on them. I used to play both of those brands years ago but given that I play at generally loud rock/blues jams, I favor the brighter reeds. The brightest cane reed I have is Marca Jazz and when you want to peel paint that is a real winner. However, even so, when I play these mpcs my sound is never what I would call "thin" or shrill. Thin compared to what? This is a highly subjective estimation which IMHO depends on your own sound concept or preferences and your chops. If you don't have the chops or ability, developed through experience with a mpc, to achieve the sound you want or like than you may get that reaction with any high-baffle piece because they, like any complex piece of equipment, require time using them to learn how to make they work for you. And this shows up what a bogus concept it is when people go to try mpcs at a shop and blow them for 5 minutes before deciding if they are good or not. Sometimes it takes weeks to get your chops zoned in on a new mpc.

    Anyway, these are my opinions based on my own experiences playing various types and brands of mpcs and reeds and the Metalites work wonderfully for me. As always anyone else's MMV.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
    'We're going all the way 'till the wheels fall off and burn.
    Till the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies'.

  8. #1347

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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    I've been working with these for a few weeks now, and I'm pretty well sold on them. I still can't quite bring myself to sell off the Lawtons or the Jody Jazz Classics, but I play much less of them than I do the Metalites. I've landed on M7 for tenor, and M5 for alto, although I managed to find a very nice M11 alto that gives me a sweet 60's Jackie McLean-type vibe.

    I picked up an M7 soprano, and my initial impression is very positive. Just enough resistance for my comfort level; not overly bright; focused, but not laser-sharp, and can subtone nicely; spot-on intonation; and the altissimo is readily available should I ever need it (not often). It's a bit of a cork eater, but so is my Rascher, so the cork is already compressed perfectly for this piece. Next I'll have to do a side-by-side with my Missing Link and JJ Classic to see if it holds up. I'd also like to find the older M9 and M11 facings.

    I've been having the best luck pairing these with Forestone Black Bamboo, which I'm guessing may help with reining in any extra brightness. The soprano reeds seem to run a little hard, so that the M7 (0.65") works well with 2's, which are just a little too hard for my ML and JJ (~0.70").
    Soprano - Antigua Winds 590-BC Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Olegature; Rascher, Legere Signature, Rovner Dark
    Alto - Yamaha YAS-875EXB Metalite M5, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Legere Classic, Rovner Dark
    Tenor - Yamaha YTS-62 Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark

  9. #1348
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    I'm sitting in next week with a retro-80s pop-rock band, and was all set to play my Zephyr alto, but B1 is just not responding well for some reason. Likely needs a trip to the tech.

    So I hauled out my trusty backup, a cheap B&H Oxford (the Canadian version of an Edgware, which is a Kohlert Bixley stencil). After a lot of trials with several pieces, I decided it plays best with a a Fibracell on a Metalite M5 or M7. I've noticed this before, and always found it weird, because I never play that setup otherwise. Fibracells alwayas sound like a kazoo on my other horns, and Metalites a bit like a referee's whistle. But something about the Kohlert's focus tames the buzz and rounds it out into a smoky rasp. The palm keys are especially full and clear, and altissimo's easy.

    Never played a show with this setup, so it should be interesting, if not disastrous.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  10. #1349
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Coda: Just tried an M7 with a Fibracell 2.5 tenor on my Kohlert alto, and it's just raucous, but with loads of core and control. Wouldn't use this setup for ballads, but it's perfect for pop, rock or R&B IMHO.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  11. #1350

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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    I want to get a metalite for my tenor but don't know which size. I have fibracell reeds 3.5 , 4.5 and 5.

  12. #1351

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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Quote Originally Posted by alexsax0318 View Post
    I want to get a metalite for my tenor but don't know which size. I have fibracell reeds 3.5 , 4.5 and 5.
    I don't know what tip openings you are used to but for these reed strenghts I would start with a M5 or a M7.
    Conn 10M '36
    Conn New Wonder '24 tenor
    Different Ben Allen and Brilhart mouthpieces

  13. #1352

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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Has anyone else noticed some side-to-side concavity? I wondered why I kept getting spit at the butt of the reed, so I put my pieces up to a straight edge. It seems like most of my Metalites have some degree (mostly fairly minor) of concavity. I'm guessing my Forestone Black Bamboo reeds don't swell to completely fill the gap.

    As an experiment I ran my M5 alto over some 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper (avoiding the rails), definitely concave, and eventually got the table mostly flat -- still a little dip near the window, but I didn't want to push my luck. The tip measures right at 0.080" like it should, so I didn't screw that up, and the piece definitely plays better despite my "shotgun" approach to mouthpiece adjustment, but I still get a little spit at the butt. I might finish flattening toward the window end, and if I can find my feeler gauges I might even take a look at the rails. Might as well learn some basic adjustment skills. On the other hand, I probably won't try similar adjustments on my M9 and M11 pieces -- way too hard to replace!
    Soprano - Antigua Winds 590-BC Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Olegature; Rascher, Legere Signature, Rovner Dark
    Alto - Yamaha YAS-875EXB Metalite M5, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Legere Classic, Rovner Dark
    Tenor - Yamaha YTS-62 Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark

  14. #1353
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Playing my M7 alto almost exclusively the past week, and noticing a tendency to jump octaves when playing the bell notes if I'm not careful. Maybe it demands different voicing than my usual low-baffled piece?
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  15. #1354
    Jazz Is All's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    Playing my M7 alto almost exclusively the past week, and noticing a tendency to jump octaves when playing the bell notes if I'm not careful. Maybe it demands different voicing than my usual low-baffled piece?
    High baffle pieces can do that easily, especially with a hard reed. I put my Berg SS scoopbill on last night at the jam and after one test run when I played a D1 that jumped two octaves, I put my roll-over piece back on. However, it was most likely the Bari M reed that did it. Great for peeling paint but not what I needed at that moment.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
    'We're going all the way 'till the wheels fall off and burn.
    Till the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies'.

  16. #1355
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Thanks Jazz, good to know it's not just me. (Though really, it's mostly me.)

    Tonight I'm going to try my Jody Jazz Jet and CE Mainstream to see if they're any more stable. I am pleasantly surprised by the tone of the M7, though, in addition to its projection. Now if I can only get it under control. . . .
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  17. #1356
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Turns out the JJ Jet is too bright for my purposes, the Mainstream not bright enough. I also tried a couple Runyons, as well as a JJ Custom, which was better than the actual Runyons. I prefer the M7 over all, but am still having trouble controlling it with this reed, no doubt due to my inexperience. In any case, I'll be returning to my trusty TK Acoustimax for tomorrow's gig. Loud enough, edgy, versatile, and always reliable.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  18. #1357
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Don't use a synthetic reed on the M7. I have tried them and the Plasticover is the only one that works any good. I use RSJ, Rigotti, and Java reeds on it and they are great. I think that baffle likes cane much more. Anyway, it does for me.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
    'We're going all the way 'till the wheels fall off and burn.
    Till the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies'.

  19. #1358
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Y'know Jazz, I mostly agree, and wouldn't use a synthetic reed with a high-baffle piece on any of my horns--except my Bixley stencil. I'm not sure why, but there's something about the Kohlert's focus that tames the excessive buzz of the synth read, and rounds out the Metalite's core without losing its edge and sizzle. It took me by surprise, but I can't deny that this combo works for me.

    I ended up using the M7 at last night's gig after all, and it worked awesome with no control issues. Perfect for a loud rock setting.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  20. #1359
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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Well, glad to hear it. I was using Bari reeds on my Berg SS drop baffle piece to get that effect to much success but now I just got a Forestone White Bamboo 4 and it is even better. Great on the Black Widow too. Fantastic reed.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
    'We're going all the way 'till the wheels fall off and burn.
    Till the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies'.

  21. #1360

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    Default Re: Rico Royal Metalite Fans!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz Is All View Post
    Don't use a synthetic reed on the M7. I have tried them and the Plasticover is the only one that works any good. I use RSJ, Rigotti, and Java reeds on it and they are great. I think that baffle likes cane much more. Anyway, it does for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    Y'know Jazz, I mostly agree, and wouldn't use a synthetic reed with a high-baffle piece on any of my horns--except my Bixley stencil. I'm not sure why, but there's something about the Kohlert's focus that tames the excessive buzz of the synth read, and rounds out the Metalite's core without losing its edge and sizzle. It took me by surprise, but I can't deny that this combo works for me.
    I've actually been having really good luck with the Forestone Black Bamboo across my various horns. Fibracell was a little too bright and buzzy, Legere Studio (a/t) and Signature (sop) were okay, but the Forestones really have a solid core, and give a nice medium-bright 60's Blue Note sound. I just need to flatten the table on my pieces a little to accommodate reeds that don't swell.
    Soprano - Antigua Winds 590-BC Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Olegature; Rascher, Legere Signature, Rovner Dark
    Alto - Yamaha YAS-875EXB Metalite M5, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Legere Classic, Rovner Dark
    Tenor - Yamaha YTS-62 Metalite M7, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark; Rascher, Forestone Black Bamboo, Rovner Dark

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