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Tone Production Part II By Phil Barone

119K views 179 replies 81 participants last post by  billpf 
#1 ·
This is part II of the tone production exercises I learned from Joe Allard and Victor Morosco. I’ve also added the idea of purchasing a very large tip opening mouthpiece to warm up on to teach you to use your diaphragm. However, you can do more harm than good if you use a hard reed on a very open mouthpiece and it may cause you to become tight.

Contrary to popular belief, the saxophone is best played with a very loose embouchure in order to let the reed “float”. I’ve studied the Larry Teal method which is very different and having made mouthpieces for so long I believe the Allard method was best. There will always be some tightness and jaw movement no matter what you do and there have been plenty of players that didn’t subscribe to this method that sounded great but there are many variables and nothing is unequivocal, especially in art where anything can go.
However, we'll never know if so-and-so might have sounded better if he had used a different method. Maybe it might have made him more comfortable enabling him to play his ideas more freely.


So, for those of you who want to challenge me or post things to the contrary as in part I, please don’t, it will only add to confusion to players trying to grasp these exercises. Many players struggle with intonation, mouthpieces, and embouchure so if you feel a need to post something opposing my views please start a separate thread. I think many players struggle because of the very different opinions they hear and from watching players. However, I think a lot of us feel as though we should be tight around the embouchure because for example when you watch a player they may seem to be suffering especially when playing loud and the veins in their forehead may protrude while there muscles around their mouth grow taught and they may turn red in the face. Well, this is natural if the player is playing especially loud because if the player didn’t tighten up, the mouthpiece would come out of their mouth as a result of blowing loud, okay?

So I’ll add that it’s not necessary to get obsessed with the exercises, as someone pointed out in part I Sonny played incorrectly, so they say but nevertheless sounded incredible. In fact, I think Sonny may have had the greatest sound of all time on the Live at the Village Vanguard albums. I will add though, having worked for Sonny, he seems to do everything correctly, he takes in LOTS of mouthpiece. So a couple of pointers before we proceed.

1. Remember that you can’t take too much mouthpiece in. You shouldn’t choke but try to pass the point that the facing starts on the rails of the mouthpiece, an inch for tenor, ¾ for alto. That’s the teeth should be past that, not the lips. At first, this will be uncomfortable and the sound may be crass and hard to control but be mindful and you will persevere.

2. The only pressure on the reed should be with the bottom teeth through the lip USING THE JAW MUSCLES, NOT THE MUSCLES IN YOUR FACE. It should just be enough to FEEL the reed through the lower lip. Any more than that and you begin to close the tip opening of the mouthpiece off. If you have to do this, then it’s time to get a new mouthpiece but not from me.



3. The last thing I’ll add is that you can break rules but first I suggest getting familiar with the exercises as they are, okay. Or I’ll come and burn your house down.

So, I'm challenged by the limited manner in which I can notate so I'll use words. The first part or section are all open C# until the end when you slur down to C natural. This is the whole exercise and you’ll just continuing down chromatically. The syllable HUH is used with no tongue and the syllable TA is a fast hard staccoto. You should be blowing hard using your diaphragm feeling is move as you blow.

OPEN C# FOR TWO EIGHTH NOTES FOLLOWED BY TWO STRONG STACATTO EIGHTHS FOLLOWED BY ONE STRONG STACCOTO HALF NOTE

SECTION (MEASURE) ONE STARTS HERE:

HUH HUH (EIGHTHS) TA TA (EIGHTHS) TAAA (HALF)
First measure ends

SECTION (MEASURE) TWO STARTS HERE:

TA TA TA TA (EIGHTHS) TATATATATATATATA (SIXTEENTHS)

TAAA (QUARTER) THEN SLUR TO C NATURAL AAAA (QUARTER) FOLLOWED BY QUARTER REST.

Then, start the whole exercise on C natural and work your way down to low B flat. I suggest getting the rhythm in your head on just the C# and C natural notes before you proceed. This will build your confidence. After you feel comfortable, you can start the entire exercise on any note. Phil
 
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#3 ·
Phil,

Do you do section one all the way down to low Bb then do section 2 down to low Bb?

The only time you are having us use the HUH sound is on section one??? I'm just confused if this is 2 different exercises or do you do measure 1(with Huh) and 2 (Ta only) then move down a note?? That's what I think you are telling us.

Thanks
 
#4 ·
Mike Cesati said:
Phil,

Do you do section one all the way down to low Bb then do section 2 down to low Bb?

The only time you are having us use the HUH sound is on section one??? I'm just confused if this is 2 different exercises or do you do measure 1(with Huh) and 2 (Ta only) then move down a note?? That's what I think you are telling us.

Thanks
No no Mike, it's all one exercise, you'll only use the huh huh in the first section. Because of the way it's laid out I expect a lot of questions so you all can fire away. Phil
 
#6 ·
Mike Cesati said:
Phil,

Do you do section one all the way down to low Bb then do section 2 down to low Bb?

The only time you are having us use the HUH sound is on section one??? I'm just confused if this is 2 different exercises or do you do measure 1(with Huh) and 2 (Ta only) then move down a note?? That's what I think you are telling us.

Thanks
Sorry Mike, I should have elaborated, after you do section 1 and 2, after the rest in section 2, you start the whole exercise again on C natural from the top. Then after you've done section 1 and 2 on C natural and have slurred to B natural you start the exercise on B natural then B flat etc. Okay? Phil
 
#7 ·
Dagsax said:
Hi Phil,
this is correct?

It's not quite right but almost and thank you for posting this way. In the third measure the C# only lasts for one beat and the C natural is two beats long. The same goes for measure six. You think you could post it again with the measures numbered and maybe you can extend it a couple of more measures? Phil
 
#15 ·
speyman said:
Thanks to Phil and Dagsax for your hard work and help. Looks like this part II really gets the diaphragm into play.
Just wait and see what this exercise is going to do for you, especially the guys that don't have a distinct sound. I guess I should tell you my experience. Vick taught me this and I practiced it quite a bit, however, I don't really know if it's possible to due it proficiently the further you go down, I couldn't but I think the benefits come by just practicing it. I had a good sound, big, loud, versatile but not personal or distinct. After about two or three weeks one day I practiced it and within a few minutes there was an immediate transformation. All of a sudden I started sounding like Dexter. I listened to him as much as anyone but never really considered sounding like him. I wanted to sound like myself. Anyway, I started studying with Sal Mosca (one of Lennie Tristano students) and I took a completely different route. This exercise opened up everything and while I don't think we should try to sound like anyone else, I think this will allow you to get out of habits that hinder you from sounding like yourself. Phil
 
#174 ·
What it sounds to me like you are saying here Phil is that these exercises brought you to a point where your sound was...flexible. Flexible enough to sound like Dexter, then whichever direction Sal Mosca was taking you, and then finally you ended up sounding like Phil Barone...?
 
#16 ·
Could I just say thanks so much for posting this Phil!

I read through the whole of the first thread yesterday. I was very worried that you wouldn't post this but I am very glad that you did.

I tried your first exercises last night. It has really motivated me!

Something I'm not clear on though - is the above exercise on the mouthpiece only or on the actual saxophone?
 
#17 ·
Robb_P said:
Could I just say thanks so much for posting this Phil!

I read through the whole of the first thread yesterday. I was very worried that you wouldn't post this but I am very glad that you did.

I tried your first exercises last night. It has really motivated me!

Something I'm not clear on though - is the above exercise on the mouthpiece only or on the actual saxophone?
You do it on the entire sax. Phil
 
#19 ·
Nice of you to take the time to notate that, Dagsax. And thanks Phil. Glad to see you went ahead with this thread.

Phil/Dagsax, just one question - shouldn't eighth-notes number 3 and 4 (beat two, measure 1) be staccato?
 
#20 ·
gary said:
Nice of you to take the time to notate that, Dagsax. And thanks Phil. Glad to see you went ahead with this thread.

Phil/Dagsax, just one question - shouldn't eighth-notes number 3 and 4 (beat two, measure 1) be staccato?
You're very welcome. Beat three and four are a half note and should be held. One thing I'd like to add, all the exercises put up should be melodic. Phil
 
#26 ·
Hi Phil

Good news this part II

Also thanks to the other contributors as well.

Phil, you know I am more a "middle of the road guy", and the only large tip mouthpiece I have is a Rico metallite M9 (0,115" tip) with a high flat baffle. Is this piece suitable for the exercise?

By the way, the Ltd Hollywood is THE metal piece for me:) congratulation for the design, it's a delight to play this piece (I sold the NY to a friend of mine which is very happy too with the NY)

cheers from France
 
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