Underappreciated Masters
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  1. #1
    odsum25's Avatar
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    Default Underappreciated Masters

    I've been thinking recently about a lot of the guys who really were/are masters and are underappreciated. Then again, who really is in the current music world. Amongst current guys, outside of the Birds/Tranes/Newks/Cannonballs/Lovanos/Potters/Redmans/Breckers/etc (you ge tthe picture) of the world there's not much. My whole point isn't to complain about the way things work in the music world- things are what they are and we can only continue to go out and make the music we want to make, the music we really feel. I just wanted to bring attention to some guys that are almost unheard of and even some guys who we all know, but still kind of get forgotten.

    I'm thinking guys like Bob Rockwell- That a guy that has it really going on, but just don't get played. And how about Scott Hamilton? The guy seems to get no respect for whatever reason, probably because he "imitates" stuff that's already been done.

    And even guys like Lee Konitz and George Coleman and Yusef Lateef...people never seem to talk about those guys anywhere near as much as they should.

    Frank Lowe has been gone for a couple of years now, but that guy should be a legend. Then you have Carmen Leggio, playing restaurant gigs in Tarrytown and Peekskill. I've seen him a couple of times now and I've started to wonder how many people sitting around me have any clue who the old guy playing sax is.

    The sad part is for every guy I mentioned there's probably hundreds of names even most players will never know. This thread probably doesn't serve much of a purpose, but I'd love to see everyone mention a few players they feel fall under this umbrella.

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    me

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    Saxplayer67's Avatar
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    Ernie Watts. Stanley Turrentine. Bob Kindred. Tom Scott. Richie Cole (hardly hear anything 'bout him).
    'If they give you ruled paper, write the other way' - Juan Ramon Jimenez
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    The UK is full of under-appreciated Masters of their Art. Don Weller, Art Theman, Bobby Wellins, Ben Clatworthy (as good as anyone I've ever heard and better than most), Peter King, Danny Moss, Alan Barnes and Alan Skidmore. I could go on..............

  5. #5
    Distinguished SOTW Columnist and Saxophonistic Artist In Residence Tim Price's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by odsum25
    I've been thinking recently about a lot of the guys who really were/are masters and are underappreciated. Then again, who really is in the current music world. Amongst current guys, outside of the Birds/Tranes/Newks/Cannonballs/Lovanos/Potters/Redmans/Breckers/etc (you ge tthe picture) of the world there's not much. My whole point isn't to complain about the way things work in the music world- things are what they are and we can only continue to go out and make the music we want to make, the music we really feel. I just wanted to bring attention to some guys that are almost unheard of and even some guys who we all know, but still kind of get forgotten.

    I'm thinking guys like Bob Rockwell- That a guy that has it really going on, but just don't get played. And how about Scott Hamilton? The guy seems to get no respect for whatever reason, probably because he "imitates" stuff that's already been done.

    And even guys like Lee Konitz and George Coleman and Yusef Lateef...people never seem to talk about those guys anywhere near as much as they should.

    Frank Lowe
    has been gone for a couple of years now, but that guy should be a legend. Then you have Carmen Leggio, playing restaurant gigs in Tarrytown and Peekskill. I've seen him a couple of times now and I've started to wonder how many people sitting around me have any clue who the old guy playing sax is.

    The sad part is for every guy I mentioned there's probably hundreds of names even most players will never know. This thread probably doesn't serve much of a purpose, but I'd love to see everyone mention a few players they feel fall under this umbrella.

    Well said; and I couldn't agree more.
    One of the big issues I've had for years.....its evident in many ways.

    I'll add to this and say SAM PHIPPS.
    He rarely EVER gets the rock sax credit he deserves....BUT....he was a key member of OINGO BOINGO band for ever. I guess , IF , the press started to get to him rock wise the parrots would follow suit.
    As a jazz player...or tenor player- SAM PHIPPS is very very unique. I think he's a tower of knowledge sax wiise as well.
    I'm lucky I know of him, and yea he is a friend, and I've learned a lot from being his friend about the music.

    Another guy in this long list is Minneapolis Ed Berger.

    A great alto player who at one point taught/guided guys like Bob Rockwell.


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    CMelodyMan's Avatar
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    Charlie Rouse, Don Byas, Richie Cole(I don't even think he plays anymore). etc..

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    I always liked the muscular tenor of Jimmy Forrest. Indelibly connected in most people's minds with his tune "Night Train", many people are unfamiliar with his artistry and drive. One recording that comes to mind is "Soul Battle", where he plays with Oliver Nelson and King Curtis -- great sound.
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    Distinguished SOTW Member rleitch's Avatar
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    Little Willie Jackson
    Don Wilkerson
    Julian Dash

    Rory

    and a second for Charlie Rouse--I love that guy!

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    Distinguished SOTW Member BarrySachs's Avatar
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    Budd Johnson
    Billy Mitchell
    Allen Eager
    Sal Nistico
    Frank Wess
    Arnett Cobb
    Charlie Mariano
    Jerry Dodgion
    Chris Woods
    Jerome Richardson
    Sonny Red

    and too many others to mention.

    Some of today's overlooked players:
    Sherman Irby
    Jerry Weldon
    Chris Byars
    Brad Leili
    Tadd Shull
    Mike Hashim
    Shelly Carrol
    Noel Jewkes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin B
    The UK is full of under-appreciated Masters of their Art. Don Weller, Art Theman, Bobby Wellins, Ben Clatworthy (as good as anyone I've ever heard and better than most), Peter King, Danny Moss, Alan Barnes and Alan Skidmore. I could go on..............
    Ben Clatworthy used to live in Los Angeles and played at Jax a lot. I used to go see him on a regular basis. Very good player and nice guy.

    I would add

    John Klemmer
    Tom Scott
    Bob Cooper *****
    Sonny Stitt
    Branford Marsalis

  11. #11
    Distinguished SOTW Member RandyJ's Avatar
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    "This thread probably doesn't serve much of a purpose,"

    Oh contraire! This is a great topic and so much more interesting than which reed is best or what horn should I buy.

    There are a multitude of very excellent saxophonists out there. As a part of the music community that has been so rewarding to me personally, career wise and financially what I try and do is support and/or purchase music that these "lesser knows" have recorded. Allot that aren't with a label usually have CDs on their own web sites that one can purchase from.

    I'll add one name to the list, not an unknown but seldom talked about in jazz circles...Boots Randolph. He's another great player and it's been my pleasure to have known him since his early Army days.

  12. #12
    odsum25's Avatar
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    Tons of good stuff out there so far.

    Tim, I think I remember you somewhere before writing about calling what someone else called "lost players" should really be described as ignored. I think it's pretty spot on and I'm sure you have lots of other guys in mind in addition to what you already did.

    Randy, you're right and I agree this is the kind of thing we should see more of, rather than this gear obsession. Not that I don't tinker like everyone else, but if I'm not playing, I'm listening.

    Amen to the mentions of Byas, Nistico, Watts, Wess, Rouse, Weldon, et al. Keep it coming.
    Last edited by odsum25; 08-06-2009 at 02:28 PM. Reason: "et al" didn't needs a period

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    Many great names here but I will especially second
    Boots Randolph, Charlie Mariano, Noel Jewkes, Frank Lowe and Arnett Cobb.
    I'll add Gary Bartz
    Hadley Caliman
    Jon Raskin
    Harold Land
    Tab Smith
    Tony Degradi
    Jim Pepper
    Junior Cook
    Cleanhead Vinson
    Julius Hemphill
    Jimmy Lunceford as some other favorites. And maybe most of all Earl Bostic.

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    Wardell Gray
    Eddie Lockjaw Davis
    Harold Land (as Kritavi just mentioned)
    Johnny Griffin
    Sonny Criss !!!
    Don Byas <did I say Don Byas?)

  15. #15
    odsum25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wind.miller
    Wardell Gray
    Eddie Lockjaw Davis
    Harold Land (as Kritavi just mentioned)
    Johnny Griffin
    Sonny Criss !!!
    Don Byas <did I say Don Byas?)
    Definitely Criss. And Kritavi is righ ton about Charlie Mariano.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Wickenden
    Richie Cole (hardly hear anything 'bout him).
    www.richiecole.com

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    Tim has loads of posts about great underated players. Just search under "In Memory Of" and "Brandname players" subforums with username "Tim Price".

    Ernie Krivda
    Sonny Simmons
    Turk Mauro
    Buck Hill
    Cornelius Bumpus
    John Stubblefield
    John Gross
    Bert Wilson
    Steve Marcus
    Jerome Richardson
    Ray Pizzi
    Bernie Wallace
    etc

    Players I had never heard (or not much) pre SOTW.
    Ken

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    PEPPER ADAMS !!!!

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    Willie Williams
    Billy Harper
    James Spaulding
    Roland Alexander
    Bill Saxton
    Prince Lasha
    Odean Pope
    Sam Rivers
    Johnny Williams
    Kenny Hing
    Cecil Payne
    Charles Davis

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    ROLAND KIRK is a mfing monster...the world is STILL not ready for him and hes been dead more than 20 years...!

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