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What happened to all those SGUnison horns

14K views 90 replies 36 participants last post by  gary 
#1 ·
I was following this thread closely a year ago, excited about the prospects of a revolutionary horn entering the market. I knew it was hype, but it was fun. Heck, if even half of what was said were true, it was to be a pivotal point in the history of the saxophone. I decided to wait and see what new owners have to say about the horn before plunking down a deposit.

Then production takes longer than expected, people get anxious, coincidentally SOTW changes formats and loses a huge percentage of its following and the hype, at least on SOTW drops dead, Meanwhile Steve Goodson claims family concerns have taken him from his shop and therefore he can't set up the horns, finally a few horns ship, but disgruntled customers claim they can't get cooperation from Steve, then suddenly Steve, who did so much on SOTW suddenly bows out of the forum, there is even talk about involving the police and the Better Business Bureau, a ton of questions are raised, and THAT WAS LAST SPRING! Now it is practicacally the end of summer!!!!!!!! and still no real answers are found here one SOTW, where once there was so much excitement. Most of these SG Unison threads have not been touched in weeks if not months. If so many people put down down-payments, like we were lead to believe, that seems odd. If anybody can answer any of the following questions, please do so.

What happened to all those people who reportedly put a downpayment on the SG model?

Do they still frequent this forum?

Did they get their horns?

Are they still waiting patiently?

If they get sick of waiting and ask for a refund, do they get it?

With the exception of FunBUn, why is there mysteriously little positive or negative feedback from new owners who once were in such a frenzy for their new horn?

If they got their horns, why don't more people post? If the horn is good, why don't they say so? If it stinks, then why don't they say so? I fthey are still waiting, why don't they say so?

While the horn was in production, the SG Unison threads would fill up with several dozens of new posts a week. Why is there such silence now?

What is the reason Steve abandoned his posting on this site? Heck, he created an incredible hype through the forum. If the horn is all it was cracked up to be, wouldn't the forum further promulgate the hype even after the horn is shipping?

At what is supposed to be the moment of glory, why the sudden silence?

Most of all, are SG Unisons out there, and if so, how do they play?

Ya'know, despite all the questions that have been raised over this whole SG Unison thing the last few months (and some of them are pretty serious allegations), it seems that if the horns really are great and really are getting into the hands of satisfied new owners, all the concerns raised would be just flies buzzing around the elephant. So if the SG Unison is really is what it was cracked up to be, why in the heck has all the SG Unison communication died?

If it could be summarized by bashing Steve, then why did that stop months ago? If I had $1000 down and were still waiting, I wouldn't let up. Were there actually only a couple of people who put money down and all the others who were in "wait-and-see" mode, but now are so puzzled by all the concerns raised they just decided to bail on the whole SG Unison idea?

Something is odd.

It seems like SOMEONE would speak up....(prefereably with facts or PERSONAL experience) Considering all the time spent following the SG Unison Threads last year, it seems like there would be at least a dozen new owners who have SOMETHING to say (besides FunBUN. Thanks FunBun)

Speak Up! PLEASE!

Pat
 
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#52 ·
Paul C. said:
1. I wish you would instruct me on how I might turn whatever "promotion" into money in my pocket, as I am unable to figure that out.
Even Mr. Goodson's Yahoo post promoted you, your abilities and your band. That sort of promotion leads to notoriety, referrals, gigs, jobs and/or educational/instructional opportunities, and as I said, is a form of compensation. Never did I call you a liar. I only disclosed known facts and my take upon them after you referred to yourself as "just another customer".

Paul C. said:
I do see people lined up with cash in hand wanting to place orders. No one has forced them to do so.
And how does that make you feel knowing that such a backlog exists and orders taken last fall remain unfulfilled? So far we've had three testimonials regarding delivered horns. Two were unsatisfactory. Harbingers of worse to come? Together with the customer service issues, I believe so. As to nobody forcing these folks to spend their money, well they certainly were encouraged to do so right here on this forum; an effort you continue to this very day.
 
#53 ·
Grumps said:
Paul C. said:
1. I wish you would instruct me on how I might turn whatever "promotion" into money in my pocket, as I am unable to figure that out.
Even Mr. Goodson's Yahoo post promoted you, your abilities and your band. That sort of promotion leads to notoriety, referrals, gigs, jobs and/or educational/instructional opportunities, and as I said, is a form of compensation. Never did I call you a liar. I only disclosed known facts and my take upon them after you referred to yourself as "just another customer".
I'm confident that we've established that Paul Coats is, indeed, a Unison Endorsing Artist. In fact, we've also established that Mr. Coats is getting precious little for his endorsement, although he might in theory become a rich man from follow-on work resulting from notoriety gained from Steve Goodson's praise and Unison's publicity. I have no doubt that legally these things qualify as compensation.

Now that we've clarified these dirty little secrets, I find that my horn's ETA is... well, no different than before. I also find that my opinion of Mr. Coats is... well, totally unchanged. Well, I AM a little disappointed that he has shattered any remaining illusions I might be harboring that saxophonists could command endorsement deals similar to those enjoyed by third-tier professional athletes.

Grumps said:
Paul C. said:
I do see people lined up with cash in hand wanting to place orders. No one has forced them to do so.
And how does that make you feel knowing that such a backlog exists and orders taken last fall remain unfulfilled? So far we've had three testimonials regarding delivered horns. Two were unsatisfactory. Harbingers of worse to come? Together with the customer service issues, I believe so. As to nobody forcing these folks to spend their money, well they certainly were encouraged to do so right here on this forum; an effort you continue to this very day.
As to "how it makes Paul Coats feel knowing that such a backlog exists and orders taken last fall remain unfulfilled", I can speak only for myself. I don't CARE how it makes Paul feel, and I find it totally irrelevant. How does Michael Jordan feel when there are production or distribution issues with Nike shoes?

One correction - since this thread is titled "What happened to all those SGUnison horns?", and is not tenor-specific, we should note that there have been a whopping TWO people who reported on their horns. Most of us recall FunBun and his tenor, but many have forgotten L1 and his alto. L1 posted a brief positive review, and then apparently went under the knife for spinal surgery, and has not posted since May 25th.
 
#56 ·
StevenW said:
Grumps said:
Stacey,
Ask your dealer if you can have your deposit back. Have some patience and wait till you can test play the actual horn you you can take home with you. Don't be a schmuck.
Grumpo,

Are you publically attempting to discourage sales of SG Model Saxophones, which could be damaging to the dealer and Unison?
It seems like he is offering reasonable advice. Try before you buy. Are the first 100 or even 1000 horns off the line going to be more magical than the next 100 or next 1000? Personally, I'd rather wait a little while for all of the new production issues to get ironed out.
 
#58 ·
Grumps: Oh look, this isn't an argument.
Steven W: Yes it is.
Grumps: No it isn't. It's just contradiction.
Steven W: No it isn't.
Grumps: It is!
Steven W: It is not.
Grumps: Look, you just contradicted me.
Steven W: I did not.
Grumps: Oh you did!!
Steven W: No, no, no.
Grumps: You did just then.
Steven W: Nonsense!
Grumps: Oh, this is futile!
Steven W: No it isn't.
Grumps: I came here for a good argument.
Steven W: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
Grumps: An argument isn't just contradiction.
Steven W: It can be.
Grumps: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
Steven W: No it isn't.
Grumps: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
Steven W: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
Grumps: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
Steven W: Yes it is!
Grumps: No it isn't!
Grumps: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)

Steven W: No it isn't.

What a stupid concept! (with apologies to Python fans everywhere)
 
#59 ·
Grumps, I appreciate your advice that I should change my present course of action, and in particular I appreciate the inference that if I do not change my course of action I am a "schmuck".

As it happens, I do have 25 years at the saxophone. I have no doubt that any number of people, possibly including you, can come forward with numbers and achievements that make my 25 years look positively schmucklike. Frankly, I don't care.

I can only hope that seeing me lose my cool, the moderator will move a step closer to locking this little pissing war thread and forcing a different one to spring up in a different place.

I choose to live under the belief that after these years, I am indeed a fully-grown, intelligent man. If I choose to leave a $1000 deposit in the hands of a dealer who is also a dear friend, a friend who has shown time and time again that he will treat me right as a friend and as a businessman, a friend who has indeed played these horns, who speaks very highly of them, and is a far more accomplished saxophone player than I am - th`t hardly seems stupid, irresponsible, or schmucklike.

Rather, if I, who haven't played tenor sax in 15 years, were to wait until my local Unison dealer (who doesn't know me from Adam) happened to have a satin silver tenor with optional kangaroo pads in stock, and then go play test the exact horn I wanted to buy, then I think I could draw two conclusions: 1) I would have a damned long wait, given the configuration I'm looking for, and 2) I wouldn't be able to tell ANYTHING, because it will take weeks for me to get my tenor chops back in order. In cases like this, where it would be almost impossible to get firsthand knowledge of everything I should learn, the most reasonable course of action would seem to be for me to enlist the help of people I trust who ARE in a position to gather a little firsthand knowledge, and accept the fact that many things are going to be subjective surprises that will not surface until I've had a chance to grow into the the horn, in a sense.

For the record: I am not a Unison Endorsing Artist. I am just an ordinary customer. I have nothing to gain except the valuable notoriety that comes from having ones name appear on SOTW. I can not speak for or against these horns personally; neither can I offer any advice to the stupid schmucks out there who may be trying to buy one, except to offer the consolation that you are not alone.

:roll:
 
#60 ·
I do not think anyone is a schmuck for putting hard earned$$ to buy a horn of there choosing, however it would seem to be a little short sighted to buy a horn that you have never played, worse still to put money down on a horn that has not even been made.

Selmer, Kielwerth, Yana & Yam to a degree have a pedigree in saxophone production, but still I would not buy any, without the opportunity to try these horns, take the new ref Alto, I recently played one for a short time, & was quite impressed with the horn for a number of reasons however I have not rang my dealer to make an order, because each horn is different. I do not want to put my dealer in a position of ordering a horn and then tell him I not happy with it, for me it's just not good business practice. It also can lead to other potential problems, Brian's problem being one of them.

BTW A good friend of mine who is a pro & primarily uses selmers did have the opportunity to test-drive and buy a SG unison, and passed on it, the same guy bought a cannonball a a few days later, money was not the issue.

Bottom line is though, people have the right to spend there money as they wish.
 
#64 ·
I think if we are to quote Python, this fits better:

Tourist: Good afternoon.

Shephrd: Eh, 'tis that.

Tourist: You here on holiday?

Shephrd: Nope, I live 'ere.

Tourist: Oh, good for you. Uh...those ARE sheep aren't they?

Shephrd: Yeh.

Tourist: Hmm, thought they were. Only, what are they doing up in the

trees?

Shephrd: A fair question and one that in recent weeks 'as been much on

my mind. It's my considered opinion that they're nestin'.

Tourist: Nesting?

Shephrd: Aye.

Tourist: Like birds?

Shephrd: Exactly. It's my belief that these sheep are laborin' under

the misapprehension that they're birds. Observe their be'avior.

Take for a start the sheeps' tendency to 'op about the field

on their 'ind legs. Now witness their attmpts to fly from

tree to tree. Notice that they do not so much fly as...plummet.

<Baaa baaa... flap flap flap ... whoosh ... thud.>

Tourist: Yes, but why do they think they're birds?

Shephrd: Another fair question. One thing is for sure, the sheep is not

a creature of the air. They have enormous difficulty in the

comparatively simple act of perchin'.

<Baaa baaa... flap flap flap ... whoosh ... thud.>

Trouble is, sheep are very dim. Once they get an idea in their

'eads, there's no shiftin' it.

Tourist: But where did they get the idea?

Shephrd: From Harold. He's that most dangerous of creatures, a clever

sheep. 'e's realized that a sheep's life consists of standin'

around for a few months and then bein' eaten. And that's a

depressing prospect for an ambitious sheep.

Tourist: Well why don't just remove Harold?

Shephrd: Because of the enormous commercial possibilities if 'e succeeds.
StevenW 8)
 
#65 ·
Keep it up, guys! For those of us not taking sides, this is like watching a train wreck... from a safe distance. BTW, the only "wish I'd said that" so far is Steven W's Monty Python routine.
 
#66 ·
And now for something completely different....

I think this works too, just replace brontosaurus with SG Unison saxophones (or the "debate" over them)
(as for Anne Elk, her replacement is your choice)

Host: Now, Miss Elk - Anne - you have a new theory about the brontosaurus.
Elk: Could I just say, Chris, for one moment that I have a new theory about
the brontosaurus?
Host: Er... exactly. What is it?
Elk: Where?
Host: No, no, no. What is your theory?
Elk: Oh, what is my theory?
Host: Yes.
Elk: Oh what is my theory, that it is. Yes, well you may well ask, what is my
theory.
Host: (slightly impatient) I am asking.
Elk: And well you may. Yes my word you may well ask what it is, this theory
of mine. Well, this theory that I have--that is to say, which is mine--
...is mine.
Host: (more impatient) I know it's yours. What is it?
Elk: Where? Oh, what is my theory?
Host: Yes!
Elk: Oh, my theory that I have follows the lines I am about to relate.
(Coughs) Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem.
Host: Oh God.
Elk: Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem.
Ahem. Ahem. [Impatient noises from Host] The Theory, by A. Elk. That's
A for Anne, it's not by a elk.
Host: Right....
Elk: This theory which belongs to me is as follows. Ahem. Ahem. This is how
it goes. Ahem. The next thing that I am about to say is my theory.
Ahem. Ready?
(Host moans)
Elk: The Theory by A. Elk brackets Miss brackets. My theory is along the
following lines.
Host: Oh God.
Elk: All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much MUCH thicker in the middle,
and then thin again at the far end. That is the theory that I have and
which is mine, and what it is too.
Host: That's it, is it?
Elk: Right, Chris.
Host: Well, Anne, this theory of yours seems to have hit the nail on the head.
Elk: And it's mine.
Host: (ironical) Thank you for coming along to the studio.
Elk: My pleasure, Chris.
Host: Er...Britain's newest wasp farm...
Elk: It's been a lot of fun.
Host: ...opened last week...
Elk: Saying what my theory is.
Host: Yes, thank you.
Elk: And whose it is.
Host: Yes. ...opened last week...
Elk: I have another theory.
Host: Not today, thank you.
Elk: My theory number two, which is the second theory that I have. Ahem!
This theory...
Host: Oh look...shut up!
Elk: ...is what I am about to say...
Host: Oh please shut up!
 
#68 ·
Meruhl,
I appreciate the good humor, but I no longer respond to the postings of the individual you paired me with for reasons stated in another one of these beauties. In this thread perhaps you should have paired me with Mr. C. instead. Now pay attention or you might be mistaken for one of the guys with the white hankies on their heads.... but perhaps that would be giving you too much credit.
 
#71 ·
There are GREAT pythonisms:

Palin: Hello, good evening and welcome to another edition of Blood, Devastation, Death War and Horror, and later on we'll be meeting a man who *does* gardening. But first on the show we've got a man who speaks entirely in anagrams.
Idle: Taht si crreoct.
Palin: Do you enjoy it?
Idle: I stom certainly od. Revy chum so.
Palin: And what's your name?
Idle: Hamrag - Hamrag Yatlerot.
Palin: Well, Graham, nice to have you on the show. Now, where do you come from?
Idle: Bumcreland.
Palin: Cumberland?
Idle: Stah't it sepricely.
Palin: And I believe you're working on an anagram version of Shakespeare?
Idle: Sey, sey - taht si crreoct, er - ta the mnemot I'm wroking on "The Mating of the Wersh".
Palin: "The Mating of the Wersh"? By William Shakespeare?
Idle: Nay, by Malliwi Rapesheake.
Palin: And what else?
Idle: "Two Netlemeng of Verona", "Twelfth Thing","The Chamrent of Venice"....
Palin: Have you done "Hamlet"?
Idle: "Thamle". 'Be ot or bot ne ot, tath is the nestquoi.'
Palin: And what is your next project?
Idle: "Ring Kichard the Thrid".
Palin: I'm sorry?
Idle: 'A shroe! A shroe! My dingkom for a shroe!'
Palin: Ah, Ring Kichard, yes... but surely that's not an anagram, that's a spoonerism.
Idle: If you're going to split hairs, I'm going to **** off. (Exit)
Also even though Jhopewell and D found each other, I don't think it is right in polite company to be pairing off guys.... count me out anyway....

STevenW 8)
 
#74 ·
My Goodson tenor didn't cost $5,000. I got it with after a week of telling Goodson I wanted the horn. I had to go on the road to New York and D.C. so I didn't pick up the horn until I got back. Steven held the horn and it was there when I got there.

The price of the horn is worked out between the dealer and buyer. Have you notice that WW&BW don't post price of there Selmers online?
 
#75 ·
Fun Bun, do you live in New Orleans?

WW&BW don't post their Yamaha, Yani or Keilworth prices either. It has to do with their contracts with these companies, which do not allow them to publish retail prices below a certain level, even though they can sell them for any price they want. I believe that these clauses are intended to protect smaller dealers.
 
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