Index of classical mouthpieces - Page 8

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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbtsax
    That's very interesting. Thank you for your response. Can you cite any references that support this idea or is it just based on your own playing skill and experience?

    John
    Paul Coates write an article on it which I believe is listed on the Saxgourmet site, and Ralph Morgan wrote an article regarding this in Saxophone Journal. I believe that there is a dissertation out there that touches on this too, but I can't remember which one it is...

    It's also basic physics. The reed resonates in your oral cavity just as it does in the horn itself; this is what makes different voicing possible.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

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  3. #142
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    I believe the whole idea that the mpc needs to make up the volume of the taper of the neck, if it did taper to a point, is accepted fact. It is physics and as far as I know has never been in question and always been adhered to by manufacturers. This is also found in the book "The Saxophone Is My Voice".

    There is also a related point, however. You can't necessarily put a narrow, but long shanked mpc on a vintage saxophone and expect the same intonational tendencies simply because the volume is the same. Tone holes are placed on the body of the saxophone in accordance to where the sound waves should "align" and while mpc volume is a part of what gives certain properties to the sound waves, so is the actual distance from the tip of the mpc to the tone holes. It is the tip of the mpc where the actual sound waves begin. There must be other factors that influence this, like the mpc volume, but probably also the oral cavity of the performer, though I think this is minimal.

  4. #143
    Forum Administrator and Contributor 2009 drakesaxprof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin
    I believe the whole idea that the mpc needs to make up the volume of the taper of the neck, if it did taper to a point, is accepted fact. It is physics and as far as I know has never been in question and always been adhered to by manufacturers. This is also found in the book "The Saxophone Is My Voice".

    There is also a related point, however. You can't necessarily put a narrow, but long shanked mpc on a vintage saxophone and expect the same intonational tendencies simply because the volume is the same. Tone holes are placed on the body of the saxophone in accordance to where the sound waves should "align" and while mpc volume is a part of what gives certain properties to the sound waves, so is the actual distance from the tip of the mpc to the tone holes. It is the tip of the mpc where the actual sound waves begin. There must be other factors that influence this, like the mpc volume, but probably also the oral cavity of the performer, though I think this is minimal.
    Agreed. Perhaps there is, for each instrument, a mouthpiece having a certain "ideal" ratio of length to chamber volume. I've heard the phenomenon work in both directions--a small chambered mouthpiece pulled out until the lower register is in tune, but the upper is very flat and, conversely, an overly large-chamber mouthpiece pushed in to the point where the octaves are very stretched (sharp upper register). So, it's the configuration of the chamber, or how the chamber volume is distributed within the mpc, rather than simply the volume.
    I lean and loafe at my ease, observing a spear of summer grass. - Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
    jimromainmusic.com
    oasisquartet.com

    I am a Conn-Selmer and D'Addario artist, and Membership Director for the North American Saxophone Alliance.

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  6. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Max
    The "table" Selmers are similar to a Rascher type piece, except that they have a bit of rollover at the tip instead of the typical flat or concave baffle of a Rascher.

    The metal Selmers that Marcel Mule played had a slightly larger chamber than the modern one, but not by much. It's interesting since his tonal concept was quite a bit brighter than pretty much anyone else at the time, and the C* was the largest tip opening that they made. I've always wondered if he would have played a larger tip if one had been available.
    Is this what you were referring to for the Marcel Mule piece, or is it the previous model with more flutes on the side?

    Sorry about the delayed question...
    Images attachées Images attachées

  7. #145
    YAY SAXOPHONE's Avatar
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    I currently play a Selmer C on alto, and I absolutely hate it. It gives me a disgustingly bright sound oddly enough, and I feel like it doesn't give me enough freedom. It is very inconsistent from day to day even with the same reeds and lig (Vand. blue box 3's and Vandoren Optimum lig.)

    I have been looking for a new alto piece. I own a old-school YAS-62 that has just been overhauled by Jim Germann. Have any recommendations on what pieces I should check out?
    I hate reeds...

  8. #146

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    You mentioned quite a few good ones to try a couple months back. Did you get around to that?

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    The metal C* pictured is vintage 40's/50's, given the Art Deco Selmer stamp. I have one of these as well! These are indeed what mule used. However, later in life, he did switch back to hard rubber....

    Steve P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve P
    The metal C* pictured is vintage 40's/50's, given the Art Deco Selmer stamp. I have one of these as well! These are indeed what mule used. However, later in life, he did switch back to hard rubber....

    Steve P
    J.Max mentioned it only came in C* at largest, and I've seen 2 E's, one of which I own. That's why I asked, as I was questioning my own thoughts. Also, I sold my Soprano D of the same vintage, and I still regret it. Perfectly mint condition too - not a scratch or wear on it! Augh! I want that back....maybe the forum member will be kind enough to return it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dweekie
    J.Max mentioned it only came in C* at largest, and I've seen 2 E's, one of which I own. That's why I asked, as I was questioning my own thoughts. Also, I sold my Soprano D of the same vintage, and I still regret it. Perfectly mint condition too - not a scratch or wear on it! Augh! I want that back....maybe the forum member will be kind enough to return it?
    The VERY earliest Selmer metals only came in a C* at the largest. It's also why you'll never find an AirFlow in say, an F facing. I don't think that they started making larger facings untill the late 40s or possibly even the 50s. They also made one with no flutes on the sides, but these seem to be quite rare.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  12. #150
    Distinguished SOTW Member/ Forum Contributor 2011 awholley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YAY SAXOPHONE
    I currently play a Selmer C on alto, and I absolutely hate it. It gives me a disgustingly bright sound oddly enough, and I feel like it doesn't give me enough freedom. It is very inconsistent from day to day even with the same reeds and lig (Vand. blue box 3's and Vandoren Optimum lig.)

    I have been looking for a new alto piece. I own a old-school YAS-62 that has just been overhauled by Jim Germann. Have any recommendations on what pieces I should check out?
    Try some of the various Vandoren models. I am fond of the AL3, but it may not meet your "freedom" needs. Also realize that the inconsistencies from day to day are more likely reed issues (heat, humidity, etc.) than mouthpiece issues, particularly if you are trying to use the same cane reeds for marching band and regular practice.
    "Even the wisest counsel is useless when it is unheeded." -Stephanie Barron
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  13. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by YAY SAXOPHONE
    I currently play a Selmer C on alto, and I absolutely hate it. It gives me a disgustingly bright sound oddly enough, and I feel like it doesn't give me enough freedom. It is very inconsistent from day to day even with the same reeds and lig (Vand. blue box 3's and Vandoren Optimum lig.)

    I have been looking for a new alto piece. I own a old-school YAS-62 that has just been overhauled by Jim Germann. Have any recommendations on what pieces I should check out?
    With something as close as a Selmer C, you might want to think about moving to 3.5 strength Vandorens. But to me, that would be a little more like painting yourself into a corner.

    I would recommend using a larger opening (S80 C*, C** or D or S90 190 if you're sticking with Selmer) and keeping the Vandoren 3's. With Yamaha saxophones, however, somehow I have had more success with Vandoren Optimum and Rousseau New Classic mouthpieces. Try the various facings and pick what feels comfortable and responsive in all registers and dynamic levels.

    I agree with AWHolley with regards to reeds, especially in Pittsburgh. Having lived there for several years, I can say that the weather significantly fluctuates weekly, sometimes daily. This makes the reeds highly unpredictable, and requires more flexibility of the player.

    Please give my best regards to Jim Germann. Boy do I miss that guy.

    Angel
    Concert Saxophonist ~ Artisan Barman
    YSS875EXHGLAS • SG2RS • S27 • M/O • 4
    YAS875EXS • AV1AG • A28 • M/O • 3

  14. #152
    Forum Administrator and Contributor 2009 drakesaxprof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Max
    The VERY earliest Selmer metals only came in a C* at the largest. It's also why you'll never find an AirFlow in say, an F facing. I don't think that they started making larger facings untill the late 40s or possibly even the 50s. They also made one with no flutes on the sides, but these seem to be quite rare.
    I think that you're right in that they are very, very rare, but they do appear to exist. Here's an example.
    I lean and loafe at my ease, observing a spear of summer grass. - Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
    jimromainmusic.com
    oasisquartet.com

    I am a Conn-Selmer and D'Addario artist, and Membership Director for the North American Saxophone Alliance.

  15. #153
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    Default metal selmers

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve P
    The metal C* pictured is vintage 40's/50's, given the Art Deco Selmer stamp. I have one of these as well! These are indeed what mule used. However, later in life, he did switch back to hard rubber....

    Steve P
    I believe the pictured mp is a 60's vintage not the earlier vintage you mention. the pictured piece has the facing stamped on the top. the earlier pieces have the facings stamped on the table.

    i currently own a D stamped on the table and am borrowing an E stamped on top (like the one pictured). there are slight differences in the chamber.

    i think the longer shank metal pieces (as currently produced) came out in the later 60's early 70's. they are similar to the shorter metal pieces but not quite the same.

    in answer to the earlier question by the guy who posted the picture. there is an earlier vintage metal selmer piece that lists the facing as "
    table c" etc... that has a much larger chamber more similar to a rascher piece.

  16. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by drakesaxprof
    I think that you're right in that they are very, very rare, but they do appear to exist. Here's an example.
    I had a JVW modified version of this mouthpiece in the past. It was such a unique piece, but completely unplayable by me. It was a B opened up to about an 80, with the rails and tip about as thin as possible. It's surprising how these examples tend to rarely show signs of browning given the age. I guess they come out from those closet instruments, because I can't recall seeing any faded ones.

    I really wish there was a decent database around for mouthpieces. The art deco metal I posted a picture of is one of my favorite jazz pieces. It has more baffle than the current metals, and I found the C* a bit much for classical playing due to this.

  17. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by drakesaxprof
    I think that you're right in that they are very, very rare, but they do appear to exist. Here's an example.
    WOW! I've never seen one of those from the factory before...I've seen refaced ones, but I didn't think any of those existed. I wonder if it was a special order?
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  18. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_s
    I believe the pictured mp is a 60's vintage not the earlier vintage you mention. the pictured piece has the facing stamped on the top. the earlier pieces have the facings stamped on the table.

    i currently own a D stamped on the table and am borrowing an E stamped on top (like the one pictured). there are slight differences in the chamber.

    i think the longer shank metal pieces (as currently produced) came out in the later 60's early 70's. they are similar to the shorter metal pieces but not quite the same.

    in answer to the earlier question by the guy who posted the picture. there is an earlier vintage metal selmer piece that lists the facing as "
    table c" etc... that has a much larger chamber more similar to a rascher piece.

    That's the one I was thinking of...there are no flutes on the sides, if I remember correctly...
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  19. #157
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    if you are talking about the table piece, the ones i have seen have heavy fluting on the sides, (but different then the later fluted pieces) and a flat top that has a bunch of writing on it, maybe the address, i can't remember.

    they look really cool but the one i tried didn't play so well.

  20. #158
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    HAIL J MAX!

    thanks for the info bro. That really educates me alot. =) Least I know more brands when it comes to classical mpc.
    Yana A880. Bellite Cus 7, FL lig w Fibrecell Med. Sel C** BG gold plat lig w premier 3
    Conn NW I tenor. Lebayle Jazz w Java 3 or MB II w Fibrecell med hard
    Conn NW 1 Sop. Sel C* legere 3. Yamazuki straight sop. Bellite 8 w Plasticover 2

  21. #159

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    Default Great discussion!

    Thanks to all of you who take time to share your knowledge. I just discovered this thread and it has been both informative and enlightening to read some of the information provided by many of you.

    I have a question with regard to mouthpieces. On a couple of posts, people mentioned certain mouthpieces being designed with different instruments in mind (i.e. Rousseau mp for Yamaha saxophone). I'm curious if any of you acousticians can comment on this principle. I currently play on a Keilwerth alto saxophone as a classical player (yes, I know, I'm the one odd duck!). It has a large bore/bow design and over the years I've tried many mouthpieces on it in search for the right sound/response combination. In general, mall chambered mouthpieces tend to sound bright and thin and large chamber mouthpieces tubby and nasal (english horn like). I have currently settled on the Optimum mouthpiece (AL3). These mouthpieces sound great on my Selmer and Yamaha instruments but, on my Keilwerth alto, to my minds ear sounds covered/stuffy though, as recorded, projects/sounds just fine. I've always wondered if there is any empirical data tying instrument design/architecture with mouthpiece/design architecture. Thoughts? Anyone else play/have experience with Keilwerth instruments and classical mouthpiece setups?

    L

  22. #160
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    I would say try a medium chamber Caravan mouthpiece.

    Back in the day I switched around from a Selmer LT and medium chamber caravan and was pretty happy with everything. So maybe a Selmer LT might work for you as well.
    http://www.manaquartet.com
    baritone saxophonist, Mana Quartet
    soprano saxophonist, Project Fusion

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