Index of classical mouthpieces - Page 7

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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by awholley
    Depends on how old. Like Sinta's Air Flow, many mouthpieces in the 40's/50's had round chambers of reduced size, some with straight sidewalls. The even older model Selmers that some people refer to as Air Flow had Rascher-like chambers. The metal Selmers of the 40's (think Mule) had a reduced-size round chamber, as best I remember from the one I used to own.

    Having heard Clark play clarinet many years ago when I was working for the San Francisco Chamber Orchestra, I suspect he favors "the dark side" and that his mouthpieces are indeed the large chamber pieces. I'd
    really like to hear a review on one of his alto and/or tenor Nova pieces before ordering one.

    The "table" Selmers are similar to a Rascher type piece, except that they have a bit of rollover at the tip instead of the typical flat or concave baffle of a Rascher.

    The metal Selmers that Marcel Mule played had a slightly larger chamber than the modern one, but not by much. It's interesting since his tonal concept was quite a bit brighter than pretty much anyone else at the time, and the C* was the largest tip opening that they made. I've always wondered if he would have played a larger tip if one had been available.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

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  3. #122
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    Off the subject, but interesting I hope...

    I was looking at an old Silver Crest LP yesterday of the California State University Fresno Wind Ensemble recorded in 1975. Russell Howland is the clarinet soloist on Jeanjean's Scherzo Brillante, Frank Bencriscutto plays saxophone on his own Jazz Concerto, and in the clarinet section is Clark Fobes, a senior music major from Redlands High School.
    After all these years, what do you practice?
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  4. #123
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    Hey has anyone tried the caravan/Rousseau/S 90 on bari?

    I play a Rascher and im looking for something with a better consistancy.

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  6. #124
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    I personally don't play any of those on bari. I go between the vandoren optimum and a C* (the only horn I like a C* on...). Connie Frigo (prof. at University of Tennessee: Knoxville and Bari in the New Century Saxophone Quartet) plays on an s90 190 but she had hers opened up. I think she said she doesn't know how much, but she sounds amazing on bari.

  7. #125
    Distinguished SOTW Member/ Forum Contributor 2011 awholley's Avatar
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    Looking at your other setups, I'd recommend trying an S90 if you aren't liking your current results on bari. The Rascher seems like the "odd man out" of your classical mouthpieces.

    That said, I doubt any of those mouthpieces will be any more consistent than the Rascher, if you are referring to tone color. The Rousseau and Selmer will probably be LESS consistent in tone color, but more powerful. The Caravan will probably be similar in tone color but LESS powerful. Also note that I had to have the shank of a Caravan shortened because it would not push on the neck of a YBS-52 far enough to come up to pitch; this was not a cork problem -the butt of the mouthpiece was hitting the brass reinforcement that helps keep the neck from bending.
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  8. #126
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    well i plaed on a C* for four years and i have hated my sound on it. Which one would yall recomend? I dont really know what to give a try.

  9. #127
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    The best thing to do, since everyone plays differently, is get a couple of mp's from say.. prowinds or somewhere like that online (or if you have a good music store in town or nearby that has a large stock of mp's) and test out mouthpieces. Compare them, and see what you like. You're the only one that can dictate what sound you want to have and what you like, so you should really think about that.

  10. #128
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    does prowinds send them out on trial?

  11. #129
    Distinguished SOTW Member/ Forum Contributor 2011 awholley's Avatar
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    Since we now have info that you don't like the S80... The Rousseau and S90 will be quite close to the S80, so without additional info on what you don't like, it's hard to say what you should try.

    Your local store might have an Otto Link hard rubber piece. Those have worked well on bari in a moderate facing (maybe 5* or 6) for quartet if reined-in. Someone else mentioned the Optimum -if the bari is as good as the alto and tenor, it's worth a shot as well.
    "Even the wisest counsel is useless when it is unheeded." -Stephanie Barron
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  12. #130
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    well i hated the s 80 on alto and i play a NC4 on alto. but things are different on bari i guess.

    A link for classical? Are the optimums any good period?

  13. #131
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    The only downside I have to the optimum is that it's harder to project with. you can make it project, you just have to work a little harder than you would with other pieces. I play one for SAT and occasionally B. It's by far the best mp I've played in the past 7 years.

  14. #132

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    Default On the Sinta LT and some other thoughts

    I studied briefly with Don Sinta in the mid 1970s, although I will NOT talk about it. I heard Russ Mallare, Lynn Klock, and other great Teal students. In fact I was taught by a Teal student for many years before going to Don Sinta.

    Don Sinta's LT is a short shank mouthpiece. You will not find one like it anywhere as it is prototype. Sinta told us that it was a prototype that Larry Teal lent him. Sinta liked it and kept it but it is not the exact same mouthpiece that went into production.

    His mouthpiece appears to have a round chamber, short length, and I suspect a bigger chamber than the production model. I also suspect that it has less of a baffle. Mr. Sinta's sound was very dark and gorgeously complex but not very powerful. He complained that he had trouble playing a concerto with a full orchestra. He used a Vandoren 3 at the time and a 3 1/2 when he soloed with orchestra.

    If I may respectfully say: Sinta is a soloist of a great musicality of a modern sort. His sound is beautiful but not powerful. His philosophy aligns with great clarinetists like David Shifrin and Harold Wright. He is more like Wynton Marsalis than Maurice Andre. His sound is more suited for an intimate chamber setting than an orchestral setting. He valued color and drama above volume and power.

    It has been many, many years since I produced a "classical" sound. But I have been seriously studying 1930s and 1940s jazz for many years. That has led me to try many saxophones and mouthpieces from the 1920s to 1950s.

    Let me cautiously state a few observations:

    1. What many players call a "jazz" mouthpiece (Jody Jazz, Brilhart Levelaire, Berg Larsen) is considered a "rock and roll" mouthpiece by a jazz player. There are MANY kinds of jazz sounds. You will have to work very hard to get Johnny Hodges out of a metal Berg! High baffle/small chamber mouthpieces are made to help saxophonist work in the electronic music environment. A 1950s Meyer or Great Neck Brilhart can be a very fine piece for any kind of playing.

    2. The "purist", whether classical or jazz player, really look for the same types of mouthpieces. This is true! A couple of years ago, I talked with Antoine Roney about horns and mouthpieces. (Antoine is a great modern jazz player in the Wayne Shorter mode.) He enthusiastically recommended the Ron Caravan mouthpiece. At the same time he was very interested in the later Tonalin Brilhart mouthpieces and used various Otto Links. If you need further proof, try an old Great Neck era Brilhart or a Coleman Hawkins' 4 **** Otto Link. They are some of the darkest mouthpieces you will ever play! A Selmer S80 is unbearably bright by comparison. Believe me, I have tried them side-by-side! Sinta liked the Brilharts too.

    3. If you are like me, you got a dark sound from a bright mouthpiece by using a heavy reed. The Selmer S80 is a very bright mouthpiece. I know almost everyone will disagree with me, but if you have played as many vintage mouhtpieces as I have you will know: the modern mouthpieces are all very bright. I used an S80 C* with a Vandoren reed. We used to buy boxes and boxes of Vandorens and tried harder and harder reeds to dampen that super bright Selmer. If you don't think the Selmer is bright, just remember that both Joe Henderson and John Coltrane use the short shank (darker) Soloist. And they played with some very loud drummers!

    4. You can get more speed and response from a large chamber / low baffle type of mouthpiece. This is true whether you are playing jazz or classical. A dark mouthpiece will allow you to use a softer and faster reed. The benefit is HUGE. You will play freer in every register. You will have a far more control. I believe that is what Mr. Sinta was doing when I studied with him.

    5. A vintage mouthpiece like the original Buescher, Conn Eagle, original Martin can give you a beautiful English Horn type of sound. It's the sound you can hear in the old recordings. Try a MUCH softer reed. Try a double-lip embouchure. Convince yourself that the right equipment is EASY to play not hard work!

    6. Try a vintage horn! The Conn saxophone is very bright, but the Buescher and the H.N. White horns can be very dark and beautiful. The horns from the 1920s and 1930s can be recognized by the "split-bell" configuration of the the low B and Bb keys. The keys are on opposite sides of the bell. Believe me, it is a revelation to play these horns! The latest Selmers are like a buzzsaw by comparison! Which leads me to:

    7. Selmer has been making their horns more and more brighter and powerful since the inception of the Mk VI. I know as a jazz player that the later Mk VI (serial numbers around 210xxx) are incredibly powerful. Compare that to the original Mk VI and Super Balanced. I had to give up on several beautiful Selmers back in the 1980s as I just need more power. The Ref III is the brightest horn I have ever played!

    8. Don't be afraid to experiment. You can do it in secret. Get an old Buescher True-Tone from the late 1920s and a bunch of old mouthpieces. Play them at home. You can still use your modern setup in public. The insight from trying the old stuff can be invaluable. Note the oxymoron: everyone is looking for individuality yet preaches conformity. Be brave! Be yourself!

  15. #133
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    That's some very Rascher-esque philosophy. I think it depends on what type of classical sound you are trying to achieve. For example, if you are trying to sound like, say, John Edward Kelly, you'll want a vintage horn and mouthpiece like you're describing. If you are more into the French sound, you'll need something a bit brighter.

    I very much disagree with the notion that a lower baffle/large chamber will necessarily give you better response and control. It depends on what you are used to dealing with; those types of mouthpieces are DESIGNED to have more resistance, and you have to learn to use work with that resistance. For instance, I can't play on a Rascher piece for anything because I just haven't trained on it...it feels stuffy to me, but if you play in that tradition, you might like that, and hate the types of pieces that I play on, which have smaller (but still round!) chambers and more roll-over to the baffle.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  16. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by crescent
    Don Sinta's LT is a short shank mouthpiece. You will not find one like it anywhere as it is prototype. Sinta told us that it was a prototype that Larry Teal lent him. Sinta liked it and kept it but it is not the exact same mouthpiece that went into production.

    His mouthpiece appears to have a round chamber, short length, and I suspect a bigger chamber than the production model. I also suspect that it has less of a baffle.
    From what I know from Sinta, his students, and the man who worked on his mouthpieces, I can say that Sinta keeps a vintage Selmer Airflow, short-shank Soloist C*, LT, and modern S90 190 in his stable. The one time I heard him live 2 yrs ago, it was on the short-shank Soloist C*.

    The Airflow has a large chamber, the LT of course has a medium circle chamber, the Soloist has a horseshoe chamber, and the S90 is a square.

    The Sinta facing that Robert Scott made (in collaboration with Sinta of course) is a the slightest bit closer than a C* facing, but with the baffle scraped out a bit.

    Hope this brings additional clarity.

    Angel
    Concert Saxophonist ~ Artisan Barman
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  17. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwartzy
    Hi. I'm currently playing on a Selmer C* S80 and looking to get a new mouth piece, but from everything I have found on here, I'm just not sure what to get.

    I'll be playing strictly classical on this piece (I have a jazz piece I'm satisfied with) and am looking for a mouthpiece with a warm rich sound. I'm also wanting a mouthpiece that will keep me close to being in tune on every note (my current S80's tuning consistency is flimsy, and even my instructor says it isn't just my breath support or embouchure.) Any help would be great.
    What type of horn are you playing?
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  18. #136
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    Well then, I always recommend either Rousseau NCs or Vandoren Optimums for Yamaha horns. The Rousseau pieces are designed around and tested on Yamahas, but some people find them a bit bright. The Vandorens are fantastic pieces, very well made, with excellent intonation, and a darker sound than the Rousseaus, but some people find that they have difficulty projecting (I didn't).
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  19. #137
    SOTW Contributor 2011 jbtsax's Avatar
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    In a much earlier post in this thread J Max indicated that the Rascher mouthpiece with the "huge chamber" couldn't be put on the cork far enough to bring it up to pitch. Does this validate the acoustician's assertion that the mouthpiece volume must closely match the volume of the missing part of the cone extending from the neck?

    Is this "missing cone" principle the reason why some mouthpieces work better on one brand of instrument than another. In other words does the bore diameter and taper of the neck on a Yamaha differ enough from the bore diameter and taper of a Selmer to cause it to respond differently with the same mouthpiece, reed and player---especially with regard to intonation? Any comments?

    John

  20. #138
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    I'm studying classical sax, and I started out playing on a C*... but my teach got me to switch to the Selmer Soloist D, and I've never felt better.

    The C* has a square on the inside of the mouthpiece (if you look through the back), I think the people that engineered this design we're trying to create a mouthpiece that would give a very focused sound, but I felt like this mouthpiece was limiting my sound. Once I switched the the Soloist D, I did feel much more free. Unfortunately, this meant that I had the work harder to control my tone and tuning, but it was worth it in the end

  21. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbtsax
    In a much earlier post in this thread J Max indicated that the Rascher mouthpiece with the "huge chamber" couldn't be put on the cork far enough to bring it up to pitch. Does this validate the acoustician's assertion that the mouthpiece volume must closely match the volume of the missing part of the cone extending from the neck?

    Is this "missing cone" principle the reason why some mouthpieces work better on one brand of instrument than another. In other words does the bore diameter and taper of the neck on a Yamaha differ enough from the bore diameter and taper of a Selmer to cause it to respond differently with the same mouthpiece, reed and player---especially with regard to intonation? Any comments?

    John

    In my observations, the answer is a qualified yes. The reason that it's a qualified yes is because you also have to take into account the volume of the "resonance chamber" (ie the player's anatomy). Now, some mouthpieces are designed to work better with certain horns. For example, if you put a Rousseau mouthpiece on a Yamaha horn, you'll find that the bores and tapers of each match exactly, as does the theoretical volume...this does not happen when you put the same mouthpiece on, say, a Selmer.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  22. #140
    SOTW Contributor 2011 jbtsax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Max
    In my observations, the answer is a qualified yes. The reason that it's a qualified yes is because you also have to take into account the volume of the "resonance chamber" (ie the player's anatomy).
    That's very interesting. Thank you for your response. Can you cite any references that support this idea or is it just based on your own playing skill and experience?

    John

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