Index of classical mouthpieces - Page 2

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  1. #21
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    J. Max and Everyone,

    Great info!!!

    I'm a big fan of the Morgan 3C. As I've mentioned in other threads there are times when I'll visually study Ralph's design features of my 3C and try to figure out how it plays as magically as it does. Since I'm not doing as much classical playing as I did in the past -- mostly big band now -- my main piece has become a 6L....which works beautifully on my New Aristocrat.

    I'm in the process of trying an experiment with my 3C. Around 4 years ago Ralph Morgan custom made a 6C piece for my '28 Buescher TT soprano. Hands down, it was the very best soprano mouthpiece I ever played and it was a great match for my Buescher. Spot on intonation. Since I'm feeling so comfortable with a 6 (.090) facing on my tenor set up, I decided to have Ralph Morgan open my 3C tenor piece to a 6C. I'll let you know how it works out.

    I agree about the differences between the early Bilger-Morgan pieces and Ralph Morgan's current work. I have a Bilger-Morgan tenor piece in a 6 facing that was made in 1985. These early pieces were made from Babbitt Company blanks. It has a huge dark sound. However, it lacks the vibrant tonal qualities and superb response that I've come to expect from a Morgan. A big part of this difference is the very high quality hard rubber formula that Ralph uses -- miles apart from a Babbitt blank. It will be interesting to compare the 6C when it arrives with the Bilger-Morgan.

    Roger
    Last edited by Roger Aldridge; 05-16-2006 at 12:45 PM.
    1936 G.H. Huller alto saxophone, Ralph Morgan 6C mouthpiece, #3 1/2 Legere Signature reeds, Theo Wanne ligature
    1970 Couesnon Monopole Bb clarinet, Walter Grabner K14 mouthpiece, #3 Legere Quebec, Theo Wanne ligature
    Yamaha bass clarinet, Walter Grabner LB mouthpiece, #3 Legere, Masters ligature
    Yamaha flute, diMedici alto flute

    Visit my website and listen to my originals: http://www.rogeraldridge.com

  2. #22
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    Very interesting information about the Morgan pieces...thanks everyone!

    Also very interesting about the Lomax...I'd be curious to know what the thoughts were on the design of that piece. Most classical mouthpieces try to either emulate an older out-of-production piece, use acoustic principles to create something new, or are based on a particular player's input. It's interesting that it sounds like the Lomax is attempting to improve/perfect a CURRENT design.

    As far as the Bamber piece goes, I know that George Wolfe is using it, and I guess I could add it to the top post. I was under the impression that it was not intended to be a professional line piece, and that the one that he uses is different from the one that is currently sold through WWBW. I did try it though, so I could add it.

    There is also a Don Sinta mouthpiece made by a company in Chicago. I didn't have an opportunity to test that one either, but from what I understand, it emulates an older Selmer LT piece.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau RC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, BG Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Unison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Max
    There is also a Don Sinta mouthpiece made by a company in Chicago. I didn't have an opportunity to test that one either, but from what I understand, it emulates an older Selmer LT piece.
    I've got one of those. Fantastic piece, IMO. I haven't played a wide enough variety of classical mouthpieces to make any useful comparisons, but I would have to say the sound is slightly darker than a C*, and a little richer overall, although the two are similar (at least based on the two C*'s I've played in the recent past). I've never played an LT on alto, though.

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    Has the Selmer metal C* been through different revisions in its lifespan? Mine is a scroll shank from the 60's and has a round chamber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred
    Has the Selmer metal C* been through different revisions in its lifespan? Mine is a scroll shank from the 60's and has a round chamber.

    Yes, it has been revised a few times, although I haven't been able to figure out exactly when. Early models (like the one played by Marcel Mule) had a larger chamber and non-fluted sides. Later on they fluted the sides and made the chamber slightly smaller. I used to own one from the 30s, and the chamber was significantly smaller than the one I had from the early 90s. They've always had a round chamber and scroll shank bottom and the same basic interior design.

    I believe that they have been made out of different materials also..the one I had from the 30s was reportedly made from solid Sterling, and I believe that they have been made of silver-plated brass, and also a material similar to the Dukoff "silverite" which is a pewter-like alloy.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau RC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, BG Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Unison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tully
    I've got one of those. Fantastic piece, IMO. I haven't played a wide enough variety of classical mouthpieces to make any useful comparisons, but I would have to say the sound is slightly darker than a C*, and a little richer overall, although the two are similar (at least based on the two C*'s I've played in the recent past). I've never played an LT on alto, though.
    The last time I saw Dr. Sinta's set-up, he was playing what appeared to be a scroll-shank LT...these were slightly different than the modern LTs in that the chamber on them was a little bit larger and I believe slightly longer too. From what I understand though, he has played on many different mouthpieces over the years although they have all been LTs or equivalents.

    I believe that he has changed horns a couple of times, which might account for the different mouthpieces. (The same piece might not play as well on an SA-80 as a Mark VI, for example. Selmer's manufacturing has been fairly inconsistent over the years too, so two of the same mouthpiece might play radically differently.)
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau RC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, BG Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Unison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  7. #27
    Distinguished SOTW Member JfW's Avatar
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    Nice work J.Max.

    I'd just like to add or clarify a few things having a few of those pieces in my possession, or give my impressions.

    Baffles:
    The Two S80s I have have a definate and an abrupt rollover right at the tip, and I can't even detect a rollover on the AL3 as it looks more or less straight. The Modern Soloist's rollover is certainly different than the S80's, it's slight and graduated over the length of about 5-6mm. The Metal Classic (tenor, rest of my mpcs are alto) I have has a slight rollover.

    Chamber:
    The Selmer metal has a very slight squeeze chamber. The AL3 does too but is a bit more pronounced. The Soloist has a bit of a squeeze as well.
    Last edited by JfW; 05-18-2006 at 07:21 AM.

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    I used to play on the Lomax classic before I got an AL3. It plays pretty well; srcsax described it well; a 'huskier tone' is exactly how I would describe it. It also has thicker/wider rails on it, is there a reason for that?

    Great work J.Max!!! This thread is extremely informative. Is an "Index of classical ligatures" next?
    bronzZoot
    YAS875EX - AL3 - BG Traditional - Gonzalez
    YSS875EXHG - Caravan - BG Traditional - Gonzalez

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronzZoot
    I used to play on the Lomax classic before I got an AL3. It plays pretty well; srcsax described it well; a 'huskier tone' is exactly how I would describe it. It also has thicker/wider rails on it, is there a reason for that?

    Great work J.Max!!! This thread is extremely informative. Is an "Index of classical ligatures" next?
    I've tried so many ligatures lately that there just wouldn't be room...I'm still trying to get mine done, and I wanted to make sure that there weren't any people who already implemented my idea...Right now, I'd just say buy a Winslow or Vandoren Optimum and be done with it...

    I've tried a lot of tenor pieces lately too. That may be my next big posting...
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau RC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, BG Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Unison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  10. #30
    SamJ's Avatar
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    Great thread J. Max! I'll just chime in about the Raschers and Caravans. Your suspicions are true, the Rascher is made from the same design as the early buescher mouthpieces. From what I hear they tend to work better with the older horns (I myself use one on an older horn with great results) but I did use it on a Selmer Series III for a while and didn't have any issues with tuning, but each person is different. The medium chamber Caravan is defiantly an in between piece that would be a great stepping stone for someone using the French bores to try and switch. The difficulty in the low register with the Rascher is solved by playing on it for a while, you will adjust and sound great down there. Another thing I would suggest with the Rascher is use a different reed size. You said that you worked on all of these with a 3. The Raschers and Caravans need harder reeds, maybe go up by a half or whole size. Great thread though, very informative.
    "Mr. Rascher, may I turn out this light?"

    "Yes, it is only drying out my reeds."

  11. #31

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    GREAT INFORMATION- Thanks a lot!!!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamJ
    Great thread J. Max! I'll just chime in about the Raschers and Caravans. Your suspicions are true, the Rascher is made from the same design as the early buescher mouthpieces. From what I hear they tend to work better with the older horns (I myself use one on an older horn with great results) but I did use it on a Selmer Series III for a while and didn't have any issues with tuning, but each person is different. The medium chamber Caravan is defiantly an in between piece that would be a great stepping stone for someone using the French bores to try and switch. The difficulty in the low register with the Rascher is solved by playing on it for a while, you will adjust and sound great down there. Another thing I would suggest with the Rascher is use a different reed size. You said that you worked on all of these with a 3. The Raschers and Caravans need harder reeds, maybe go up by a half or whole size. Great thread though, very informative.

    You are correct about the Rascher piece...it takes a different type of breath support and a slightly different embrouchure than mine to effectively use it. I didn't use harder reeds because of my previous issues with alto; I didn't want to push it.
    One thing that I didn't get a chance to test with the Rascher pieces was the consistency of facings...does anyone know how consistent the manufactiring is on these?
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau RC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, BG Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Unison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Max
    You are correct about the Rascher piece...it takes a different type of breath support and a slightly different embrouchure than mine to effectively use it. I didn't use harder reeds because of my previous issues with alto; I didn't want to push it.
    One thing that I didn't get a chance to test with the Rascher pieces was the consistency of facings...does anyone know how consistent the manufactiring is on these?
    I've heard that it can be inconsistent. I got a good one right of the bat, but I have heard that the large chamber Caravans are more consistent from my colleagues at Fredonia.
    "Mr. Rascher, may I turn out this light?"

    "Yes, it is only drying out my reeds."

  14. #34

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    Very inconsistent. And not by a little. Sam is right.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironpaper258
    Very inconsistent. And not by a little. Sam is right.

    That doesn't surprise me. They are made by Babbitt, which is not known for their extensive quality control. (Rousseau's pieces have the same problem.)
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau RC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, BG Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Unison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  16. #36
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    I have several friends who use the Tenor Rascher pieces. For some reason they are more consistent. I'm sure that's the case with the Bari, the larger the harder it is to mess up! I love mine for my alto though, you find a good one and you'll know it. If you are interested in the piece, try several out and see what you find.
    "Mr. Rascher, may I turn out this light?"

    "Yes, it is only drying out my reeds."

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamJ
    I have several friends who use the Tenor Rascher pieces. For some reason they are more consistent. I'm sure that's the case with the Bari, the larger the harder it is to mess up! I love mine for my alto though, you find a good one and you'll know it. If you are interested in the piece, try several out and see what you find.

    They are more consistent for the same reason that Link alto pieces are more consistent - Babbitt makes less of them( less demand), and therefore they can afford to toss out the really bad ones.

    Rousseau pieces were similar, in that I can remember trying out about 10 of them when I was at IU before I found the best one.

    Keep in mind that all mouthpieces are going to have some variations and the ones made by Selmer and Babbitt tend to have the most issues for consistency. Selmer S-80 C*s probably vary the most, but that's because they are the most popular mouthpiece in the world. What I usually tell people is to try several different mouthpieces, find the one that you like, and then try several of that particular piece. Obviously this isn't possible with some makers, but the "boutique" companies like Morgan will usually work with you if you don't like something on your piece.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau RC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, BG Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Unison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  18. #38
    Lorentz's Avatar
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    Great Job!!! Thank you very much buddy!

    But, what about Meyer? Could you add some more info about them?

  19. #39
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    Lorentz.

    Meyers are not really considered a classical mouthpiece, though some people use them.

    Because fo the shape of the baffle area they tend to get brighter and spread in the upper part of the horn. Can be somewhat buzzy sounding as well. I have had students use them on Tenor with some succcess, but they always sound better on a mouthpiece with less baffle at the tip such as a Caravan, Selmer or Morgan.

  20. #40
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    Yup. Meyer is NOT a classical mouthpiece, despite what some band directors think...even the large chamber one has too much edge for serious classical work.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau RC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, BG Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Unison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

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