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Index of classical mouthpieces

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#1 · (Edited)
I'm doing this to help out some of the beginning classical players, and I thought it might be useful for some others. This is a comparison and a list of the qualities of the classical mouthpieces I have tried. I kept a notebook of these from when I worked on a project at the University of Arizona in 1995 and I've added some more notes on many of these recently (as I looked for a new piece for my new horn.) All of these were played on either a Yamaha YAS-875 (If they were produced before 2000) or on my Grassi 2000 Professional (which you can think of as a Mark VI. It's a carbon copy of a Mark VI, right down to the composition of the brass alloy.) All were tested with a Vandoren 3 Traditional reed, and Rovner lig. (They didn't have the Optimum back then, and I still had a Rovner, so when I tested the new stuff, I tried to stay consistent.)

French style mouthpieces:

Selmer S-80 (C*) - Medium chamber, medium rollover baffle, square chamber. Produces, not surprisingly, a medium dark sound. Facings tend to be fairly inconsistent between pieces of the same facing. Probably the most popular mouthpiece in the world. Square chamber darkens the sound, but also has the effect of making it more "spread". Square chamber also helps to increase response, but tends to encourage poor breath support if you get lazy. Available for all saxophones, including sopranino and bass. Players using this piece are too numerous to list, but include Harvey Pittel, Fred Hemke (metal version), and others.

Selmer S-90 (180) - Same as S-80 but with a larger chamber. Slightly darker sound with more resistence. Available for SATB. The only player of note that I know using this is John Sampen.

Selmer LT (Larry Teal) - Medium round chamber, flat baffle with a very slight rollover. Slightly brighter and more focused sound than the S-80. Only comes in one facing, equivalent to a C*, but with a longer curve. Less immediate response, but encourages better breath support. Available in alto and tenor only. Players using this include Don Sinta and Michael Hester.

E. Rousseau New Classic (NC4) - Long rollover baffle, arched chamber with straight sidewalls, medium chamber. Very bright for a classical piece. Very good response, easy overtones and altissimo. MUST HAVE GOOD BREATH SUPPORT! Available for SAT. Not a good beginner's piece because it takes a while to "tame". Very smooth and even once it is "tamed" though. Works very well with Yamaha horns. Players using this include Eugene Rousseau and Kenneth Tse.

Vandoren V5 (A27) - Flat baffle, smaller round chamber. Very long facing. Tried three, very consistent facings. Bright sound and kind of breathy. Poor low end response. Need a lot of air for this one. Available for SATB. Most notable player using it is Claude Delangle.

Hite Classic (M64) - Shorter rollover baffle, round "squeeze" chamber, built-in bite plate. Very consistent facing, only available in one facing. Excellent response across all registers, slight edge to the tone that may make it unsuitable for classical playing. Slimmer mouthpiece that may be difficult to find ligatures to fit. Very well made piece. Available in SATB. I don't know of any players using them currently.

Vandoren Optimum (AL3) - Very slight rollover, slightly larger chamber than V5, round chamber. Very consistent response, very consistent facings (tried 3). Very free blowing with a bit of resistence. Medium bright sound, similar to S-80. Great altissimo! Available in SATB. Only player that I know is using it is Otis Murphy, but I expect that to change.

Morgan Symphonic (3C) - Long rollover baffle, round chamber, larger chamber (nearly as big as a Rascher piece). Excellent response, down to the lower end, very dark sound. Appears to be modeled on a Selmer Table C*. Very free blowing, with some resistence. Very good altissimo, although not as good as the Optimum. Available in SATB. Used by James Houlik on tenor. (Houlik uses a Bilger-Morgan piece on tenor, not a 3C),

Selmer Soloist (modern C*) - Medium rollover baffle, "horseshoe" style chamber. Good response, brighter than the S-80. Slight "reedy" sound, but very warm. Rubber is harder and shinier than any vintage Soloist I've ever seen. Available in alto and tenor only. (Could account for the difference in tone quality) Don't know of anyone using this piece right now.

Bari Symphonic (C*) - Short rollover baffle, piece is very similar to a Meyer. Too much edge for classical work.

Selmer Metal Classic (C*) - Rollover baffle, small chamber. Good response, very similar to the Optimum, but not as warm. Very easy altissimo, and good control. Low end response isn't as good as more modern pieces. Available in SATB. Used by Marcel Mule (!).

I'll add the Rascher School pieces later...(Yes I did try them!)...
 
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#27 · (Edited)
Nice work J.Max.

I'd just like to add or clarify a few things having a few of those pieces in my possession, or give my impressions.

Baffles:
The Two S80s I have have a definate and an abrupt rollover right at the tip, and I can't even detect a rollover on the AL3 as it looks more or less straight. The Modern Soloist's rollover is certainly different than the S80's, it's slight and graduated over the length of about 5-6mm. The Metal Classic (tenor, rest of my mpcs are alto) I have has a slight rollover.

Chamber:
The Selmer metal has a very slight squeeze chamber. The AL3 does too but is a bit more pronounced. The Soloist has a bit of a squeeze as well.
 
#28 ·
I used to play on the Lomax classic before I got an AL3. It plays pretty well; srcsax described it well; a 'huskier tone' is exactly how I would describe it. It also has thicker/wider rails on it, is there a reason for that?

Great work J.Max!!! This thread is extremely informative. Is an "Index of classical ligatures" next? ;)
 
#29 ·
bronzZoot said:
I used to play on the Lomax classic before I got an AL3. It plays pretty well; srcsax described it well; a 'huskier tone' is exactly how I would describe it. It also has thicker/wider rails on it, is there a reason for that?

Great work J.Max!!! This thread is extremely informative. Is an "Index of classical ligatures" next? ;)
I've tried so many ligatures lately that there just wouldn't be room...I'm still trying to get mine done, and I wanted to make sure that there weren't any people who already implemented my idea...Right now, I'd just say buy a Winslow or Vandoren Optimum and be done with it...

I've tried a lot of tenor pieces lately too. That may be my next big posting...
 
#30 ·
Great thread J. Max! I'll just chime in about the Raschers and Caravans. Your suspicions are true, the Rascher is made from the same design as the early buescher mouthpieces. From what I hear they tend to work better with the older horns (I myself use one on an older horn with great results) but I did use it on a Selmer Series III for a while and didn't have any issues with tuning, but each person is different. The medium chamber Caravan is defiantly an in between piece that would be a great stepping stone for someone using the French bores to try and switch. The difficulty in the low register with the Rascher is solved by playing on it for a while, you will adjust and sound great down there. Another thing I would suggest with the Rascher is use a different reed size. You said that you worked on all of these with a 3. The Raschers and Caravans need harder reeds, maybe go up by a half or whole size. Great thread though, very informative.
 
#32 ·
SamJ said:
Great thread J. Max! I'll just chime in about the Raschers and Caravans. Your suspicions are true, the Rascher is made from the same design as the early buescher mouthpieces. From what I hear they tend to work better with the older horns (I myself use one on an older horn with great results) but I did use it on a Selmer Series III for a while and didn't have any issues with tuning, but each person is different. The medium chamber Caravan is defiantly an in between piece that would be a great stepping stone for someone using the French bores to try and switch. The difficulty in the low register with the Rascher is solved by playing on it for a while, you will adjust and sound great down there. Another thing I would suggest with the Rascher is use a different reed size. You said that you worked on all of these with a 3. The Raschers and Caravans need harder reeds, maybe go up by a half or whole size. Great thread though, very informative.
You are correct about the Rascher piece...it takes a different type of breath support and a slightly different embrouchure than mine to effectively use it. I didn't use harder reeds because of my previous issues with alto; I didn't want to push it.
One thing that I didn't get a chance to test with the Rascher pieces was the consistency of facings...does anyone know how consistent the manufactiring is on these?
 
#33 ·
J.Max said:
You are correct about the Rascher piece...it takes a different type of breath support and a slightly different embrouchure than mine to effectively use it. I didn't use harder reeds because of my previous issues with alto; I didn't want to push it.
One thing that I didn't get a chance to test with the Rascher pieces was the consistency of facings...does anyone know how consistent the manufactiring is on these?
I've heard that it can be inconsistent. I got a good one right of the bat, but I have heard that the large chamber Caravans are more consistent from my colleagues at Fredonia.
 
#35 ·
ironpaper258 said:
Very inconsistent. And not by a little. Sam is right.
That doesn't surprise me. They are made by Babbitt, which is not known for their extensive quality control. (Rousseau's pieces have the same problem.)
 
#36 ·
I have several friends who use the Tenor Rascher pieces. For some reason they are more consistent. I'm sure that's the case with the Bari, the larger the harder it is to mess up!:D I love mine for my alto though, you find a good one and you'll know it. If you are interested in the piece, try several out and see what you find.
 
#37 ·
SamJ said:
I have several friends who use the Tenor Rascher pieces. For some reason they are more consistent. I'm sure that's the case with the Bari, the larger the harder it is to mess up!:D I love mine for my alto though, you find a good one and you'll know it. If you are interested in the piece, try several out and see what you find.
They are more consistent for the same reason that Link alto pieces are more consistent - Babbitt makes less of them( less demand), and therefore they can afford to toss out the really bad ones.

Rousseau pieces were similar, in that I can remember trying out about 10 of them when I was at IU before I found the best one.

Keep in mind that all mouthpieces are going to have some variations and the ones made by Selmer and Babbitt tend to have the most issues for consistency. Selmer S-80 C*s probably vary the most, but that's because they are the most popular mouthpiece in the world. What I usually tell people is to try several different mouthpieces, find the one that you like, and then try several of that particular piece. Obviously this isn't possible with some makers, but the "boutique" companies like Morgan will usually work with you if you don't like something on your piece.
 
#38 ·
Great Job!!! Thank you very much buddy!

But, what about Meyer? Could you add some more info about them?
 
#39 ·
Lorentz.

Meyers are not really considered a classical mouthpiece, though some people use them.

Because fo the shape of the baffle area they tend to get brighter and spread in the upper part of the horn. Can be somewhat buzzy sounding as well. I have had students use them on Tenor with some succcess, but they always sound better on a mouthpiece with less baffle at the tip such as a Caravan, Selmer or Morgan.
 
#40 ·
Yup. Meyer is NOT a classical mouthpiece, despite what some band directors think...even the large chamber one has too much edge for serious classical work.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Richard Hawkins makes the Sinta model. I've only ever seen it for sale on Chicago Mouthpieces. Here's the site:

www.chicagomouthpieces.com
 
#44 ·
J.Max said:
Chicago Mouthpieces makes the Sinta model. Here's the site:

www.chicagomouthpieces.com
I assume Hurling will chime in here at some point, but this information is not correct. Chicago Mouthpieces has some for sale. The picture on the site indicates the mouthpiece is "Designed and Crafted by Richard Hawkins" and gives his email address. My understanding is that Hawkins had stopped making them, but you could email him at hawkinsrg@aol.com to get the lowdown.
 
#45 · (Edited)
#47 ·
OK, OK...I give up! :)

The mouthpiece is made by Richard Hawkins!

Here's the big question: Does Sinta actually use it?
 
#49 ·
Tully said:
I wouldn't think so, since it's described as "inspired by Sinta's personal mouthpiece."
That's what I thought too. I may have to get one and try it, to compare it to the LT.
 
#50 ·
J.Max said:
Yup. Meyer is NOT a classical mouthpiece, despite what some band directors think...even the large chamber one has too much edge for serious classical work.
That's true to an extent... however it's certainly useful for the commercial player who needs to play classically now and then. You can "get away" with it and make it work for classical playing in a pinch, but it's not going to perform as well as some of the mouthpieces you've listed, provided some dedicated time was spent with them.

I've been thinking about purchasing a classical mouthpiece recently, as I'm getting more serious about it and would like to, if even just for the summer, try to achieve the sound concept on something more conducive to it than my Meyer. Thus far the Selmer metal classic is the most appealing to me. I play an "E" on soprano and I really like how it plays. Does anyone here play these mouthpieces for classical work and would care to share? BTW I'm more a student of the French school of playing.
 
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