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System 76?

11K views 27 replies 12 participants last post by  NissanVintageSax 
#1 ·
Anyone tried these? Are these the new models? Does anyone know how they differ from the other ones?
 
#3 ·
The only difference I see is that the bell is engraved on the 76. Could that be it? :?

I sent an email to "info@monteverdemusic.com". We'll see. I will post the results when I get the answer.
 
#4 ·
Differences to the 66

There also appears to be a (cosmetically) different bell-to-body bracing piece. While it looks to be a more stylish piece, it doesn't seem like it functions any different.
 
#5 ·
Dieter,
I will seriously vouch for Tim Glessman at Sax Alley if you're looking for a new PM! You may have read my other posts on this guy. I can't say anything that would be more glowing than to say my PMXA-67R is the best setup horn I've ever played! He's got my vote for Sax Technician Association - Tech of the Year! :) Plus, he's going to be one of the most honest and sincere people you've ever dealt with. 'nuff said!
 
#6 ·
Any word from Monte Verde Music?

Just wondering if Greg (or anyone else) has heard anything new about the System 76 yet. I supposed to go pick up my PMXT-66R on April 8th, so I would like to get the scoop before I lay out my cash. Thanks!
 
#7 ·
Derald, Dieter,

I can understand before commiting to the 66R (love mine!) wanting to know what the difference is with the 76. I would highly recommend giving Tim a call to see if he knows anything about them. Since he seems to move a lot of P. Mauriat horns...in fact if I am not mistaken Tim sold more P. Mauriat saxophones than any other dealer last year......I think he would have the best pulse on what's up. I didn't buy my tenor from him but he was darn helpful in helping me decide. I did buy one of the new Super Jazz VI necks from him so he is the first to get the new developments it seems.
 
#8 ·
I haven't received a reply to my email to MonteVerde yet. I owe Tim a call anyhow. I'll let you know what he says.
 
#9 ·
Info on the System 76

I too emailed Roger at Monte Verde Music, and got a reply this morning! Here is what he said...
Monte Verde Music said:
The System 76 tenor does not have rolled tone holes. It does have a completely different bore size and tends to sound a bit brighter than the 66R. It has extensive engraving and is a great responding and sounding horn, maybe a bit more like the Mark VI, but a fatter sound. The retail cost of the 76 is $3790, while the 66R is $3590.
I hope this is answers some of your questions, as it has mine!:D

:arrow:pS: Monte Verde Music did not actually post this info on SOTW; I just used the quote function so that you could distinctly see what was from them and not from me.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the update! I never got anything from MonteVerde in my email. A little disappointing, but you got the info. Thanks for posting it! :)
 
#11 ·
clinic at scimonetti's

the main man at monteverde music comfirmed with me a couple days ago that he's going to do a clinic at Scimonetti's on Saturday. He said he's going to have both the System 76 and the 66R with him for interested parties to give them a go. Sadly (very very very sadly) I have a conflict and cannot make the drive up. But I'm really looking forward to hearing what any of you others who are headed up have to say about the experience.
 
#12 ·
amiri said:
the main man at monteverde music comfirmed with me a couple days ago that he's going to do a clinic at Scimonetti's on Saturday. He said he's going to have both the System 76 and the 66R with him for interested parties to give them a go. Sadly (very very very sadly) I have a conflict and cannot make the drive up. But I'm really looking forward to hearing what any of you others who are headed up have to say about the experience.
amiri, I'm sorry you won't make it to the P. Mauriat clinic. I, on the other hand, have had that event on my calendar for a few weeks, and will definitely be there. While I'm there, I'll be picking up my PMXT-66R!!! (I'm excited, can you tell?) I'll be sure to post about my experience somewhere down the line.
 
#13 ·
66R vs. System 76

I just got back to Sacramento about an hour ago, after an all-day road trip to Scimonetti's in Lancaster, CA. I got to A/B a PMXT-66R against a System 76, at they both rocked! Before I get to that...

I have read EVERY post about Scimonetti Woodwind and Brass, Inc. under the Dealer Evaluations section of this forum, which to date is 65 posts over the course of almost 2 years. Nearly all of the posts have enthusiastically positive things to say about the shop, the staff, and the SAXOPHONES, and I must say, the shop lived up to it.:salute: I know, this isn't the topic of this thread... I just had to throw props to the Scimonetti's, as theirs is the by far the best wind shop I've ever had the pleasure of visiting. More on that in the Dealer Evaluation section on another day.

Within 10 minutes of entering the store, I was given a practice room and the following tenor saxes to test drive:
  • Cannonball Big Bell Stone Series
  • Cannonball Big Bell Stone Series - Raven
  • Keilwerth SX-90 - blk lqr w/ gold lqr keys
  • Selmer La Voix - blk lqr w/ gold lqr keys
  • Selmer SA-80 II - gold lacquer
  • Selmer SA-80 III - gold lacquer
  • Selmer SA-80 III - gold matte
  • Selmer SA-80 III - gold matte w/ gold lqr keys
  • Yamaha Custom 82Z - gold lacquer
  • Yamaha Custom 82Z - gold matte w/ lacquer
  • Yamaha Custom 82Z - unlacquered
  • P. Mauriat PMXT-66R
  • P. Mauriat System 76

I forced myself to save the PM's for last. To that point, the winners were the CB (not the Raven), the SA80 III gold matte w/ gold lqr keys, and the 82Z unlacquered. All were very cool horns in their own right, for various reasons and w/ different tonal qualities. The I tried the PM's... it was over.:shock:

Both of the PM's blew the rest away. These 2 horns priced in the $2500ish range were head & shoulders above everything priced up to around $4k. Here's the comparison between the PM's:

System 76: Asthetically stunning. The antiqued finish featured on both PM's was the canvas for very elaborate hand engraving all over the bell and bow of the 76. Said engraving was detailed, but simple & elegant. I also love the abalone keys on both of these horns. The amazing resonance off this baby can be likened to the San Andreas faultline on a bad day; it shook the house! Wide open, huge tone. I suspect it may have something to do w/ the Super Jazz VI neck that comes stock. Intonation was very even. Only downside (in comparison w/ the 66R) was that the tone thinned out just a little from the "middle" D, i.e. the first note w/ the octave key engaged. When I say "a little", I mean it. It went from a 10 to an 8.5.

PMXT-66R: She was beautiful, but not quite as much so as the 76. The only difference in styling was less engraving. Again, wide open, huge tone. However, not quite as resonant as the System 76. I look forward to trying a Super Jazz VI neck on this guy down the road to see if that characteristic can be brought to this horn. Again, very even intonation. And the tone... my good Lord, the tone was stellar. The low end could be a gentle whisper or a wake up call, and still the sound was ginormous.

The Purchase: Ultimately, I could not choose a clear winner between the PM's; I loved them both. As the 66R was $200 cheaper, that made my decision. At that price difference, I can almost buy the extra neck if it floats my boat. I'm home, played this baby again, and I'm thrilled with the purchase. Having A/B'd the 66R against a Ref 54 at the NAMM Show a few months ago, I'm convinced that I like it better than every horn I've ever played, save the System 76. My life is now complete.:cheers: If I didn't need time to play the horn, I could die now!
 
#14 ·
Derald, It is an afterthought now that you've already sealed the deal. You should have tried the Super Jazz VI neck on the PMXT-66R, unless it wouldn't fit. I have found that I really like both the original and the SJVI neck. The SJVI has a little more crisp attack and I find the tone to be a little more complex with a smidge of more mids and high eq in the sound. On the other hand with the original neck it is a little more smooth and feels fatter sounding, especially the low end....but the low end is plenty thick with the SJVI neck as well...just different.

I would suggest ordering a Super Jazz VI neck from Jim (or Tim at SaxAlley if Jim doesn't carry them) and trying it to see if you like it. If not then return it then all you would be out is shipping. I like using the SJVI on my classic rock, funk, soul gigs and the original in duo, and jazz applications. Only real difference is that the SJVI cuts through a little better on louder gigs.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Mark R said:
Derald, It is an afterthought now that you've already sealed the deal. You should have tried the Super Jazz VI neck on the PMXT-66R, unless it wouldn't fit. I have found that I really like both the original and the SJVI neck. The SJVI has a little more crisp attack and I find the tone to be a little more complex with a smidge of more mids and high eq in the sound. On the other hand with the original neck it is a little more smooth and feels fatter sounding, especially the low end....but the low end is plenty thick with the SJVI neck as well...just different.

I would suggest ordering a Super Jazz VI neck from Jim (or Tim at SaxAlley if Jim doesn't carry them) and trying it to see if you like it. If not then return it then all you would be out is shipping. I like using the SJVI on my classic rock, funk, soul gigs and the original in duo, and jazz applications. Only real difference is that the SJVI cuts through a little better on louder gigs.
Hey Mark R, great minds think alike! I asked a Scimonetti staffer for a SJVI neck to try. When he returned, he had the System 76 in hand, and informed me that the neck would NOT fit the 66R. I was very bummed...:cry:

More great thinking... Jim Scimonetti told me that he has some SJVI necks on order, and that he would send me one to try when they arrive. I'm actually hoping to try 2 of them... one stock from P. Mauriat, and one modified w/ the corkless neck system that Scimonetti's offers. It's supposed to make any neck more free blowing. The only way I feel I can get a reasonably objective take on that:scratch: is to A/B two identical necks. If this works out, I'll post and let everyone know how it goes. Until then, I'm still psyched about my 66R!
 
#16 ·
Dieter,
Congratuations on the purchase! I just got my 66R on Thursday evening and I agree it's the best horn I've ever played. I share in your excitement. :headbang:

What mouthpiece did you use in your trials?

On the SJVI neck, I'm trying one out on both the 66R and 67R when they arrive from SaxAlley. I also have some mouthpieces coming on trial. But the Berg 95/0M I played this morning really gives me that smooth sound I'm looking to achieve.
 
#17 ·
GAS_Wyo said:
Dieter,
Congratuations on the purchase! I just got my 66R on Thursday evening and I agree it's the best horn I've ever played. I share in your excitement. :headbang:

What mouthpiece did you use in your trials?

On the SJVI neck, I'm trying one out on both the 66R and 67R when they arrive from SaxAlley. I also have some mouthpieces coming on trial. But the Berg 95/0M I played this morning really gives me that smooth sound I'm looking to achieve.
Hey Greg, congrats to you as well! :glasses7: Please keep us posted when you try out the SJVI necks; I'd be interested in your take what kind of difference they make.

When I started from the dozen saxes, I narrowed the field using an Ottolink STM 6, which I've been playing on for about 5 years. On an 82Z (lacquered matte finish, very cool!), a Cannonball BB Stone Series, a SA80 III, and the PM System 76 & 66R, I used both the link and a Jody Jazz DV 7* and 8*. I ended up taking the JJ DV 7* home with me. It's a cool piece that I believe will get better w/ time as I adjust to it and improve my skills.
 
#21 ·
In looking closely at pics of some of the new P.M horns, including the System 76, I wonder if maybe some of these new horns are made in a different factory altogether?

The System 76 looks like a "vintage" version of the new plain gold 202 model, but at a drastically higher cost. They say that the 76 has a different tube from the older models, so have they switched to another manufacturer for these horns? If so, these newer models could be dramatically better or worse than those which have received rave reviews here on SOTW. Or, they could just be dramatically different....

I guess thats the problem I have with the Taiwanese horns- what kind of horn are they really? Brand names of Taiwanese horns seem to be nothing more than marketing concepts and price points. If the horns are really getting that good, then I want to see a horn engraved "Proudly made by XXXX Houli, TAIWAN" so that as a consumer I know I am buying a quality horn, not one which is available with any name I want engraved with my name with orders of 50 or more. So many of these horns just look so DARN good, and now promise a stellar tone as well, but I have a hard time shelling out $2500+ for a horn wondering if I could have gotten it for $500 on Ebay with just a different name engraved. This is what lead to the end of B&S saxes...they were able to compete when economics allowed them to produce an almost-Big 4 horn (for the sake of argument) at a much better price. They lost that competitive advantage and have folded. Will Taiwanese manufacturers face the same thing when they lose that lower-cost status completely to the mainland Chinese factories and have no brand recognition?
 
#22 ·
I understand your frustration. Think about the history of stencils though. For some reason the factories in Taiwan for the most part have decided against directly marketing their product with their name. I'm less concerned these days with country of orgin and really just care how a horn plays. It also has to hold up. If it plays well and is well made I don't care where it is made.
 
#25 ·
Hey guys, check out response #13 in this thread for side-by-side comparison of the System 76 against the PMXT-66R, PM's most popular model. This comparison was also done side-by-side against many Big Four saxes, all included in the review. I hope that's helpful!
 
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