"Schools" of playing - Page 3

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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAS_Wyo
    JMax,
    I'm looking at your sig and wondering how the J. Keilwerth SX90R fits into that french sound thing you've got going on with the Buffets?

    I'm also wondering...how would my favorite players fit into the different schools?

    Sanborn?
    Clarence Clemens?
    Jay Beckenstein?
    Michael Brecker?
    (in other words, Modern and Smooth Jazzers)
    They're jazz guys - no school needed.

    And hey, Keilwerth made horns for Buffet, which is the Frenchiest of French companies, so go figure! But equipment has very little to do with which school you're associated with...it's more about approach. The only "school" where there is a very significant difference is the Rascher school, and even a lot of Rascher people use modern horns now.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist D, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Selmer Air Flow C*, BG Tradition lig, Vandoren 3

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  3. #42
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    Remember, when we're talking about "schools" of playing, we're talking about the heritage of the school, and most of them date back to the early 20th Century. The basics of these three branch off into a lot of different tree limbs. Most of Harle's teachers studied with Mule, which puts him into the French school, but there are really a lot of "limbs". Not everyone can be catagorized evenly either.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist D, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Selmer Air Flow C*, BG Tradition lig, Vandoren 3

  4. #43
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    Where does Harvey Pitel fit int his whole mix of things?

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    I'm going to defer that question to someone else. I will state a few facts about him:

    1. He studied with Frederick Hemke, but refuses to talk about that time.

    2. He also studied with Joe Allard, who he considers to be his main teacher.


    Other than that, I will not comment on Mr. Pittel so I will allow someone else to answer.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist D, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Selmer Air Flow C*, BG Tradition lig, Vandoren 3

  7. #45
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    Harvey Pittel is of the Cobra Kai Dojo

    "He who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance; one cannot fly into flying." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel
    Schools aren't about how alike people are, but how alike their backgrounds are.

    Angel
    Really? because I think Delangle has tried to do everything opposite of what marcel mule did. Only the conussieur would know they come from the same "school".

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    Taimur Sullivan told me that Delangle wants to base his sound around other instruments like flute/horn/voice/etc. rather than other saxophonists

    "He who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance; one cannot fly into flying." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Really? because I think Delangle has tried to do everything opposite of what marcel mule did. Only the conussieur would know they come from the same "school".
    Really? Doesn't he state in the program notes to his French cd that it is a hommage to Mule? Respecting the tradition he started? There are also interviews where Delangle is very respectful of his heritage. I don't think he sounds like Mule, concepts of sound have changed since then but some ideals stay the same.

  11. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Smith
    Really? Doesn't he state in the program notes to his French cd that it is a hommage to Mule? Respecting the tradition he started? There are also interviews where Delangle is very respectful of his heritage. I don't think he sounds like Mule, concepts of sound have changed since then but some ideals stay the same.
    What does tradition and heratige have to do with how he plays now? nothing, that's why I say he has taken a completely different approach. Yes, the sound has changed. That's why he sounds like the farthest thing from Mule

  12. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLight
    Harvey Pittel is of the Cobra Kai Dojo
    Sweep the Yamaha! (Or something...)
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist D, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Selmer Air Flow C*, BG Tradition lig, Vandoren 3

  13. #51
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    Somebody said (J.Max I think) that overtones exercises is more a Rascher approach but Rousseau has an interesting book about overtones. How does the approach of both differ?

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    I don't think they differ at all. The concepts are the same, however, Rousseau's book has a more pedagogical approach and it gears the player torwards technical mastery of the altissimo register. I have used both in my studies. I also should mention that for Rousseau, overtones are only a means of acquiring the altissimo register and once that has been achieved and you retain the feeling and concept, he doesn't emphasize continual practice of the overtone exercises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GAS_Wyo
    JMax,
    I'm also wondering...how would my favorite players fit into the different schools?

    Sanborn?
    Clarence Clemens?
    Jay Beckenstein?
    Michael Brecker?
    (in other words, Modern and Smooth Jazzers)
    Sanborn had lessons with Hemke, Brecker had lessons with Allard, not sure about the other two.

    I was doing a gig with one of my old teachers last night and we were discussing the idea of people placing themself in a 'school'. His opinion, and I kind of agree, is that people who get too hung up on this are often players who never on their own two feet and come up with their own take on things.


    As for the 'Allard school'- I've had lessons with quite a few Allard students who profess to be teaching THE Joe Allard embouchure and they all say different things. No two of Joe's students were taught the same.

    I'd like to start my own school- the 'Put the thing in your gob and just play it' school.

  16. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    What does tradition and heratige have to do with how he plays now? nothing,
    I really don't agree with that, as well as your previous statement saying that Delangle is doing the opposite to Mule.
    Yes, he is very different in ideals and sound production (times change) but Delangle holds onto his heritage and is very proud of the tradition he has been born out of. The Paris con system of teaching has been a major impact on the life of Delangle. Claude does not distance himself from Mule, if you read some of the interviews between the two you'll be aware there is a great deal of respect there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny
    I'd like to start my own school- the 'Put the thing in your gob and just play it' school.
    I'm in that school.
    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, Martin Handcraft alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Roland Aerophone AE10, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 5D, bunch of other instruments

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    Actually, I'm in the Gig school.

    It evolved from the On-The-Job-Training school.
    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, Martin Handcraft alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Roland Aerophone AE10, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 5D, bunch of other instruments

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny

    I'd like to start my own school- the 'Put the thing in your gob and just play it' school.
    I agree with that!

  20. #58
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    This is pretty interesting stuff. I have some pretty interesting grand teachers.

    Previous teacher------> Rousseau------>Mule
    Current Teacher------>Allard I think thats right on that one....I dont know hes mentioned so many different teachers.

  21. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny
    Sanborn had lessons with Hemke, Brecker had lessons with Allard, not sure about the other two.

    I was doing a gig with one of my old teachers last night and we were discussing the idea of people placing themself in a 'school'. His opinion, and I kind of agree, is that people who get too hung up on this are often players who never on their own two feet and come up with their own take on things.


    As for the 'Allard school'- I've had lessons with quite a few Allard students who profess to be teaching THE Joe Allard embouchure and they all say different things. No two of Joe's students were taught the same.

    I'd like to start my own school- the 'Put the thing in your gob and just play it' school.

    That's the thing about Allard - most of his more famous students are jazz players, and none of them teach the same way. Pittel, for example, teaches very differently from Dave Liebman...

    As far as your other comments go, this is a way to trace heritage, not to make excuses for how you play, or to get too "hung up on". It's just interesting to trace who studied with whom and to see the similarities and differences in people's playing. Brecker studied for a year with Rousseau too, BTW. I heard a lot of crazy stories about him...
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist D, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Selmer Air Flow C*, BG Tradition lig, Vandoren 3

  22. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Smith
    I really don't agree with that, as well as your previous statement saying that Delangle is doing the opposite to Mule.
    Yes, he is very different in ideals and sound production (times change) but Delangle holds onto his heritage and is very proud of the tradition he has been born out of. The Paris con system of teaching has been a major impact on the life of Delangle. Claude does not distance himself from Mule, if you read some of the interviews between the two you'll be aware there is a great deal of respect there!
    I understand the respect, but again, respect can mean a variety of things. I have respect for many other people but it doesn't mean I have to adopt their ways. Similarly, I think Delangle can have the greatest respect for the maître but he has developed such a different style of playing the two can not possibly be akin. If you can list how Delangle is similar to Mule in tradition, I would love to hear it. Maybe I don't understand you stance on heritage/tradition. Is this a pedagogical approach to the school you are speaking of? If it is, well, a pedagogical approach isn't really a "school". It's a method of teaching and you can teach that same method and get a variety of results from the players themselves.

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