"Schools" of playing

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\r\n This is really for the newer people here, but I thought I would take it upon myself to explain what is meant by the different schools of playing. I was trained primarily in the French tradition, so if you are a Rascher or Teal person, please feel free to add your comments. I\'m not trying to cause debate or contention, but since people have been asking, I thought I\'d expalin it a bit better. Let\'s not talk about why there are feuds or anything else, please.
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\nFrench School- Can be traced back to Marcel Mule. Prominent players include Frederick Hemke, Eugene Rousseau, Daniel Deffayet, Jean-Marie Londeix and Claude Delangle. Equipment is exclusively modern. (And normally Selmer or Yamaha) Mouthpieces ususally have "shaped" chambers, such as the S-80, Rousseau NC, or Vandoren. Methods include linear etudes, some scale work, articulation work, and repertoire. Tone tends to be brighter and articulations tend to be lighter than the other two schools. There is quite a bit of crossover in training with the American school.
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\nRascher School-Can be traced back, obviously, to Sigurd Rascher. Prominent players include Carina Rascher, David Bilger, and Paul Cohen. Equipment is usually vintage, especially Buescher. (Many Rascher people feel that modern horns have gone away from Adolphe Sax\'s original design). Mouthpieces are exclusively round chambered and resistant, such as Caravan and Buescher. The most important feature that differentiates Rascher training is the use of overtone exercises. Tone tends to be darker, articulations heavier, and vibrato is slower than the other two schools. (although this varies.) There is very little crossover training with the other two schools.
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\nAmerican school-Can be traced back to Larry Teal, although there are very few "pure" American school players. Prominent players include Donald Sinta, Michael Hester (who has had a lot of French training also), and Steven Mauk. Equipment is usually modern (Mark VI or newer). Mouthpieces vary, although many American school players use Selmer LTs for obvious reasons. Tone is somewhere between the German and French schools, and the vibrato is usually terminal in imitation of flute or voice. Most American school players will have French training as well.
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\nThere is one other school of playing, which I hesitate to mention, but in my studies of this subject I think it\'s worth explaining. I will NOT give anyone specific names on this:
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\n"Lunatic Fringe"-This is my name for teachers who have created cults of personality around themselves and do not acknowledge any other influence. Equipment is usually EXACTLY what said teacher uses and all tone, etc. is in imitation of that teacher. I will leave you to your own conclusions on this one.\r\n
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\r\n \r\n Last edited by J.Max; 10-10-2016 at 12:26 AM.\r\n \r\n \r\n
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    \r\n The Rascher school\'s vibrato is faster?
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    \r\nI thought it was considerably slower\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by TMadness1013\r\n \r\n
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    The Rascher school\'s vibrato is faster?
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    \nI thought it was considerably slower
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    \nI thought about that after I said it...I was thinking of a particular player, but now that I think of it, Rascher himself has a slow vibrato, and a slower vibrato fits that aesthetic a bit better. I fixed that in the initial post.\r\n
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    \r\n Thanks J. Max, that\'s a good summary in general.
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    \r\nCan we start the mud-slinging now?
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    \r\nSeriously, my slight quibble is with the list of prominent "Rascher school" players. You just gave two names, so obviously you didn\'t intend it to be inclusive. However, I think Paul Cohen would not characterize himself as a "Rascher school" player. He drops in here occasionally so maybe he will address this himself. In the meantime, there\'s this interview of Cohen which I read as indicating that Joe Allard had a much stronger influence on his playing than Rascher.
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    \r\nIf Cohen drops off the list, I\'d "nominate" John-Edward Kelly to add as the second example.\r\n
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    \r\n Default Re: "Schools" of playing\r\n

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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by chitownjazz\r\n View Post\r\n
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    Thanks J. Max, that\'s a good summary in general.
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    \r\nCan we start the mud-slinging now?
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    \r\nSeriously, my slight quibble is with the list of prominent "Rascher school" players. You just gave two names, so obviously you didn\'t intend it to be inclusive. However, I think Paul Cohen would not characterize himself as a "Rascher school" player. He drops in here occasionally so maybe he will address this himself. In the meantime, there\'s this interview of Cohen which I read as indicating that Joe Allard had a much stronger influence on his playing than Rascher.
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    \r\nIf Cohen drops off the list, I\'d "nominate" John-Edward Kelly to add as the second example.
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    \r\nAs a student of Paul Cohen\'s, I can tell you that he is a strong disciple of Rascher in several ways and looks to Raschers influence in:
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    \r\nRascher\'s Impeccable Musicality
    \r\nRascher\'s Connection to Major Composers (Dahl, Martin, Glazounov, Ibert)
    \r\nRascher\'s Commitment to orchestral Saxophone sound as the instrument was intended to sound.
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    \r\nAlthough he only studied with Rascher during several brief times, I can say from observation that Dr. Cohen holds rascher to be a major influence.\r\n
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    Adjunct Professor of Saxophone and Music History Lecturer, Georgian Court University
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    \r\n I\'d add Cecil Leeson to the American school – altho he\'s more important as a recitalist and an influence on composers than as part of a continuing pedagogy.
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    \r\nTo the Rascher school, one ought to add the interest in sax orchestras and the rather tight geographic sphere of influence: mostly the eastern and southern US, and southern Germany since the Rascher Quartet relocated there.\r\n
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    \r\n Let\'s not forget the considerable influence of Rascher on Lawrence Gwozdz and Patrick Meighan, both of whom, by the way, are very open-minded teachers and players.\r\n
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    \r\n Default Different Schools\r\n

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    \r\n J. Max - very informative post. Appreciated - however, I believe that along with the "Lunatic Fringe" School, you had forgotten about another school of playing - one that I belong to.
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    \r\nDangerfield School - Can be traced back to the philosophy of "Rodney". There is no classical "setup" per say, one could play far too much sax than one can handle... or it could be a Buescher with more dings than a Golden Gloves Tournament and a spit-stained low D pad, or a Bundy who\'s neck is more wobbly than that of a cold criminal (post hangman\'s noose, of course).
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    \r\nThis particular school of playing is known for the inconsistency of practice schedules. Direct Influences - 150 mile round-trip to work, taking kids to swim practice, tee-ball, dance and friend\'s house. Cooking dinner because wife is working, bathing & reading to children, putting them to bed. When trying to become more regimented, and hopefully graduate from this school of hard knocks, wife states - "can\'t you wait until the kids go to sleep?" After kids go to sleep, "do you have to do that now, the kid are sleeping?"
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    \r\nLet me tell you, my playing gets no respect .\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by WillieB\r\n \r\n
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    J. Max - very informative post. Appreciated - however, I believe that along with the "Lunatic Fringe" School, you had forgotten about another school of playing - one that I belong to.
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    \r\nDangerfield School - Can be traced back to the philosophy of "Rodney". There is no classical "setup" per say, one could play far too much sax than one can handle... or it could be a Buescher with more dings than a Golden Gloves Tournament and a spit-stained low D pad, or a Bundy who\'s neck is more wobbly than that of a cold criminal (post hangman\'s noose, of course).
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    \r\nThis particular school of playing is known for the inconsistency of practice schedules. Direct Influences - 150 mile round-trip to work, taking kids to swim practice, tee-ball, dance and friend\'s house. Cooking dinner because wife is working, bathing & reading to children, putting them to bed. When trying to become more regimented, and hopefully graduate from this school of hard knocks, wife states - "can\'t you wait until the kids go to sleep?" After kids go to sleep, "do you have to do that now, the kid are sleeping?"
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    \r\nLet me tell you, my playing gets no respect .
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    \r\nHeh. Practicing usually involves angry neighbors and ersatz soundproofed rooms...\r\n
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    \r\n Chitown, I agree about Paul Cohen... though from hearing him play, I\'d say he definitely belongs on that list.\r\n
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    My quintet album - Released June 2013. Please enjoy.
    \r\nGlenn Miller Orchestra - See when we\'re near you and come on out to a show! Ask me about comp tickets.
    \r\nMike Lorenz - a great musician who I collaborate with often. He also produced my album.
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    \r\n J. Max, interesting post. You left off two other schools though!
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    \nThe UK School. I see a new wave of saxophone performance from the UK that is based on a blend of influences. It\'s different, it\'s bold and is growing very fast.
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    \nThe NEW school. We now live in a time where information is a click away. Students all around the world have access to literature and recordings from all styles of saxophone playing. Also, many students are becoming well versed in jazz AND classical music. These available influences are creating saxophonist who are more of a blend of the past and present performers.
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    \nIf you consider that in Mule and Raschers time there was not this influence. You got what you heard when you went to your lesson. There were very few recordings. Shoot, i remember in the early 80\'s sharing a copy of a Houlik LP and Sinta\'s LP with about 20 others. They were rare gems!
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    \nViva Das Nouve Scuola!!!\r\n
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    \r\n I\'m a mutt!!
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    \r\nFrom personal experience, I can tell you that the three major schools mentioned each have significant pedagogical holes. The great part is that the aspects of playing that one school does not address, another will address them expertly.
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    \r\nIf you make a habit of only accepting open-minded master saxophonists as teachers, then these schools will rarely conflict. The master teacher will address the weaknesses and challenge the strengths of the student so so as to help him grow into his own artistry.
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    \r\nI very highly recommend spending some serious time learning from master teachers of different schools of playing.
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    \r\nYSS875EXHGLAS • SG2RS • S27 • M/O • 4
    \r\nYAS875EXS • AV1AG • A28 • M/O • 3
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    \r\n J.Max- nice summary. I would like to add something for consideration though. While it is possible to trace the beginnings of these schools back to Mule and Rascher, I think it speaks more of the reasons for these stylistic differences to trace them back one step further. Both the Rascher and French schools have legitimate reason to trace their widely differing approaches back to Adolphe Sax. (Not just the Rascherites). The stereotype goes that only the Rascherites are playing the instrument today as it was originally intended, but I wonder.
    \r\n Mule came out of the French Military Band tradition which had a much stronger thread back to the time of Adolphe Sax than did the orchestral tradition (that championed by Rascher). As most of us know, Adolphe\'s struggle to get his saxophone to take off in his life time found more success in the military bands than in the opera house. Adolphe taught these military band musicians himself and the saxophone tradition in the French military was nearly continuous up until the time of Mule. Is it possible to see Adolphe\'s hand in the style that is now considered the "French school?" Adolphe knew his instrument could operate a variety of settings...do you think he could have endorsed the brassier, militaristic approach that Mule and French school grew out of even if it meant abandoning the darker, orchestral approach later championed by Rascher? I don\'t think we can know for sure what Sax thought of this militaristic appropriation of his instrument, but it is eye-opening (to me at least) that perhaps Adolphe Sax witnessed these divisive approaches to the saxophone in his own time.
    \r\n I\'m at a school with many Rascher students, though I personally play a Selmer with an AL3. I think the standard "Rascher school" thinking on this is that the large chamber/parabolic cone which yields that dark smooth "metallic cello" sound is the most accurate to Adolphe\'s intent. But I still wonder. Certainly, original "design," but "intent?" Adolphe personally set in motion the military tradition which ultimately produced Mule. Perhaps with Adolphe the whole mouthpiece design issue was not as critical as we make it today. Clearly a smaller chamber mouthpiece would be more appropriate for outdoor military performance. Is it possible that as Adolphe saw this trend in the use of his instrument that he would have approved of design changes to suit the venue? Hmmm...
    \r\nAnybody know when we first began to see smaller chamber mouthpieces?
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    \r\nMaybe history could teach us all to loosen up about these supposed schools and accept the fact that different sounds are appropriate in different settings.
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    \r\nStill...any other ideas (other than mouthpiece design changes) on how to determine what sounds Adolphe determined appropriate or inappropriate for his saxophone? Any French guys what to argue for why their approach is more historical accurate?\r\n
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    \r\n Great post J.Max. I just have two small things.
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    \r\n1) Maybe you had a reason not to include Tim McAllister into the American school, but I feel he belongs. He studied with Sinta from the time he was at Interlochen all the way through his doctoral training.
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    \r\n2) I find, especially now, that over in France, there are more than just 1 school of thought. As Rascher has his own school, I feel Delangle has one as well. I guess I could see this as a sub-category, but it doesn\'t hurt to state it.\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by vivace1\r\n \r\n
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    Anybody know when we first began to see smaller chamber mouthpieces?
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    Selmer mouthpieces were large chambered like Bueschers until just before the Soloist came out with it\'s smaller horseshoe chamber. There are some pre-Soloists with medium round chambers like the LT - the design that Larry Teal had reincarnated later on.
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    \r\nTo add... it would be more interesting to see a family tree of who instructed who than trying to categorize players of note by species.
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    \r\nOtherwise, there\'s always the platypus to confuse matters.\r\n
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    Please visit EZmpc.com and follow me on Facebook!
    \n“Opinions are like embouchures.” - EZ
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Angel\r\n \r\n
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    From personal experience, I can tell you that the three major schools mentioned each have significant pedagogical holes. The great part is that the aspects of playing that one school does not address, another will address them expertly. Angel
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    Angel, Would you be so kind as to expand upon this statement or give some examples either in this thread or in a private post. I have learned a great deal from this discussion and you have peaked my curiosity even more. Thanks.
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    \r\nJohn aka
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    \r\n OK, a few things...
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by bezzoni\r\n \r\n
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    1) Maybe you had a reason not to include Tim McAllister into the American school, but I feel he belongs. He studied with Sinta from the time he was at Interlochen all the way through his doctoral training.
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    Yes, there is a reason. I forgot! Seriously, I wrote that off the top of my head and he just wasn\'t in the forefront of my mind at the time. Same reason I didn\'t put Gwzodz or Meighan on the Rascher side of things or Jean-Yves Formeau on the French side of things.
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    \r\nAs far as the Joe Allard stuff goes, I really hesitate to say that he consitituted a saxophone school since his focus was more "all-woodwind" oriented. (In fact, I believe that he endorsed a line of clarinet mouthpieces.) There are many good players that studied with him, and I don\'t mean to slight him or them in any way, but they vary a lot in approach and so you can\'t really put them together into a "school". Many of the people that studied with Allard also studied with someone else; I\'m not aware of anyone who is a "pure" Allard player. The idea of the list was to give people an idea about what to expect in certain schools of playing; if you go study with Harvey Pittel and then go study with Paul Cohen, you\'re going to have very different experiences.
    \r\n
    \r\nPart of that is because of Dr. Cohen\'s Rascher experience, part of it is because Allard (like Nadia Boulanger) taught his students to find their individual voice, and part of it is going to be because of teaching proficiency.\r\n
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    Current setups:
    \r\nYamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau NC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    \r\nUnison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5
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  • \r\n'; pd[461181] = '\r\n
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    \r\n prodigal\r\n \r\n
    \r\n prodigal est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by J.Max\r\n \r\n
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    American school- the vibrato is usually terminal....
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    \r\nHee hee hee...
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    \r\nI dunno what you mean by that, but it\'s funny!\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[461517] = '\r\n
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    \r\n GAS_Wyo\r\n \r\n
    \r\n GAS_Wyo est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
    \r\n \r\n Forum Contributor 2010 / RIP\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n GAS_Wyo\'s Avatar\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
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    Join Date
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    \r\n JMax,
    \r\nI\'m looking at your sig and wondering how the J. Keilwerth SX90R fits into that french sound thing you\'ve got going on with the Buffets?
    \r\n
    \r\nI\'m also wondering...how would my favorite players fit into the different schools?
    \r\n
    \r\nSanborn?
    \r\nClarence Clemens?
    \r\nJay Beckenstein?
    \r\nMichael Brecker?
    \r\n(in other words, Modern and Smooth Jazzers)\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[461706] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Martinman\r\n \r\n
    \r\n Martinman est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
    \r\n \r\n Distinguished SOTW Member\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n Martinman\'s Avatar\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by GAS_Wyo\r\n \r\n
    \r\n
    JMax,
    \r\nI\'m looking at your sig and wondering how the J. Keilwerth SX90R fits into that french sound thing you\'ve got going on with the Buffets?
    \r\n
    \r\nI\'m also wondering...how would my favorite players fit into the different schools?
    \r\n
    \r\nSanborn?
    \r\nClarence Clemens?
    \r\nJay Beckenstein?
    \r\nMichael Brecker?
    \r\n(in other words, Modern and Smooth Jazzers)
    \r\n \r\n
    \r\n
    \r\n

    \r\nThey are probably from the School of Hard Knocks, although Brecker did go to IU...\r\n
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    "Martin owners just change the freakin\' bulb and get the job done." - MartinMusicMan
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  • \r\n'; pd[461906] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Angel\r\n \r\n
    \r\n Angel est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    Join Date
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    \r\n Brecker may have gone to IU, but he was not a midwest Franco-American type, that\'s for sure.
    \r\n
    \r\nI studied with Houlik and spent some well-spent time with Pat Meighan and John Moore, but DWoz, BKauth, and others on this forum can vehemently attest to the fact that I\'m not a Rascher guy (though I love Rascher guys).
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    Concert Saxophonist ~ Artisan Barman
    \r\nYSS875EXHGLAS • SG2RS • S27 • M/O • 4
    \r\nYAS875EXS • AV1AG • A28 • M/O • 3
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  • \r\n'; pd[462349] = '\r\n
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    \r\n RickBusarow\r\n \r\n
    \r\n RickBusarow est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    Join Date
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by GAS_Wyo\r\n \r\n
    \r\n
    JMax,
    \nI\'m looking at your sig and wondering how the J. Keilwerth SX90R fits into that french sound thing you\'ve got going on with the Buffets?
    \r\n \r\n
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    \r\n
    The type of horn you play doesn\'t determine your stylistic concept - not even if it\'s a Buescher.
    \n
    \nNotice that his Buffet alto\'s also actually a Keilwerth stencil. I\'ve got a lot of friends who play Keilwerths, and they all sound different. One of them sounds remarkably similar to Delangle with a Shadow alto and an S90 mouthpiece. Your style\'s all about how you approach your horn - not the other way around.
    \n
    \nBTW, I believe Brecker was from the School of Pre-Medical Studies or something like that. \r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[675894] = '\r\n
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    \r\n J.Max\r\n \r\n
    \r\n J.Max est actuellement connecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
    \r\n \r\n Distinguished Member
    Forum Contributor 2013-2016\r\n
    \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n J.Max\'s Avatar\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
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    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Location
    Richmond,VA
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    Posts
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by GAS_Wyo\r\n \r\n
    \r\n
    JMax,
    \nI\'m looking at your sig and wondering how the J. Keilwerth SX90R fits into that french sound thing you\'ve got going on with the Buffets?
    \n
    \nI\'m also wondering...how would my favorite players fit into the different schools?
    \n
    \nSanborn?
    \nClarence Clemens?
    \nJay Beckenstein?
    \nMichael Brecker?
    \n(in other words, Modern and Smooth Jazzers)
    \r\n \r\n
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    \r\n
    They\'re jazz guys - no school needed.
    \n
    \nAnd hey, Keilwerth made horns for Buffet, which is the Frenchiest of French companies, so go figure! But equipment has very little to do with which school you\'re associated with...it\'s more about approach. The only "school" where there is a very significant difference is the Rascher school, and even a lot of Rascher people use modern horns now.\r\n
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    Current setups:
    \r\nYamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau NC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    \r\nUnison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5
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  • \r\n'; pd[675898] = '\r\n
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    \r\n J.Max\r\n \r\n
    \r\n J.Max est actuellement connecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
    \r\n \r\n Distinguished Member
    Forum Contributor 2013-2016\r\n
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    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Location
    Richmond,VA
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    \r\n Remember, when we\'re talking about "schools" of playing, we\'re talking about the heritage of the school, and most of them date back to the early 20th Century. The basics of these three branch off into a lot of different tree limbs. Most of Harle\'s teachers studied with Mule, which puts him into the French school, but there are really a lot of "limbs". Not everyone can be catagorized evenly either.\r\n
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    Current setups:
    \r\nYamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau NC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    \r\nUnison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5
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  • \r\n'; pd[676759] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Benny\r\n \r\n
    \r\n Benny est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
    \r\n \r\n Distinguished SOTW Member\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
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    Join Date
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    \r\n
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    Canberra, Australia
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by GAS_Wyo\r\n \r\n
    \r\n
    JMax,
    \r\nI\'m also wondering...how would my favorite players fit into the different schools?
    \r\n
    \r\nSanborn?
    \r\nClarence Clemens?
    \r\nJay Beckenstein?
    \r\nMichael Brecker?
    \r\n(in other words, Modern and Smooth Jazzers)
    \r\n \r\n
    \r\n
    \r\n
    Sanborn had lessons with Hemke, Brecker had lessons with Allard, not sure about the other two.
    \r\n
    \r\nI was doing a gig with one of my old teachers last night and we were discussing the idea of people placing themself in a \'school\'. His opinion, and I kind of agree, is that people who get too hung up on this are often players who never on their own two feet and come up with their own take on things.
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    \r\nAs for the \'Allard school\'- I\'ve had lessons with quite a few Allard students who profess to be teaching THE Joe Allard embouchure and they all say different things. No two of Joe\'s students were taught the same.
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    \r\nI\'d like to start my own school- the \'Put the thing in your gob and just play it\' school.\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[676894] = '\r\n
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    \r\n MartinMusicMan\r\n \r\n
    \r\n MartinMusicMan est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
    \r\n \r\n Distinguished SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2011\r\n
    \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n MartinMusicMan\'s Avatar\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Benny\r\n \r\n
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    I\'d like to start my own school- the \'Put the thing in your gob and just play it\' school.
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    I\'m in that school.\r\n
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    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, Martin Handcraft alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Roland Aerophone AE10, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 5D, bunch of other instruments
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  • \r\n'; pd[676909] = '\r\n
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    \r\n MartinMusicMan\r\n \r\n
    \r\n MartinMusicMan est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
    \r\n \r\n Distinguished SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2011\r\n
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    \r\n Actually, I\'m in the Gig school.
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    \r\nIt evolved from the On-The-Job-Training school.\r\n
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    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, Martin Handcraft alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Roland Aerophone AE10, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 5D, bunch of other instruments
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  • \r\n'; pd[677014] = '\r\n
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    \r\n BariSaxzinger\r\n \r\n
    \r\n BariSaxzinger est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Benny\r\n \r\n
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    \r\nI\'d like to start my own school- the \'Put the thing in your gob and just play it\' school.
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    I agree with that!\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[677200] = '\r\n
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    \r\n J.Max\r\n \r\n
    \r\n J.Max est actuellement connecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
    \r\n \r\n Distinguished Member
    Forum Contributor 2013-2016\r\n
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by Benny\r\n \r\n
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    Sanborn had lessons with Hemke, Brecker had lessons with Allard, not sure about the other two.
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    \r\nI was doing a gig with one of my old teachers last night and we were discussing the idea of people placing themself in a \'school\'. His opinion, and I kind of agree, is that people who get too hung up on this are often players who never on their own two feet and come up with their own take on things.
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    \r\nAs for the \'Allard school\'- I\'ve had lessons with quite a few Allard students who profess to be teaching THE Joe Allard embouchure and they all say different things. No two of Joe\'s students were taught the same.
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    \r\nI\'d like to start my own school- the \'Put the thing in your gob and just play it\' school.
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    \r\nThat\'s the thing about Allard - most of his more famous students are jazz players, and none of them teach the same way. Pittel, for example, teaches very differently from Dave Liebman...
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    \r\nAs far as your other comments go, this is a way to trace heritage, not to make excuses for how you play, or to get too "hung up on". It\'s just interesting to trace who studied with whom and to see the similarities and differences in people\'s playing. Brecker studied for a year with Rousseau too, BTW. I heard a lot of crazy stories about him...\r\n
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    Current setups:
    \r\nYamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau NC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    \r\nUnison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5
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  • \r\n'; pd[470205] = '\r\n
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    \r\n nitrosax\r\n \r\n
    \r\n nitrosax est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    \r\n Come on guys...Everyone knows that the French school is REALLY the best...Just give in and accept it! You\'ll be much happier people.
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    \r\nWell..On a serious note, I second what Angel wrote about each school having something to offer. There was a time in past where I spent a considerable amount of time trying to understand and "sound" like a particular school of players. For me it started with Michigan or the American school. Then, Rascher, then Defayyet or French school, then NEW French school(Delangle).
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    \r\nNow I just try to sound like me but I\'ve traits from all of these schools...I picked and chose what I liked from each...it\'s entirely possible to have a French sound with a American sense of line or a Rascher-like sound with a Delangle-like sense of pitch...\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[473195] = '\r\n
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    \r\n RobD est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    \r\n I think Rousseau should be split from the french school - everytime i\'ve studied with a person who ascribes to the rousseau ideal its darker and rounder of a sound than when i study with someone with a french ideal who wants the brigther and crisp articulation. I think there\'s a noticeable different, atleast with the people i\'ve studied with.
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    \r\nif anything there should be a rousseau/french-america/IU school or something. and definitely a japanese school\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[675385] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Angel est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    Location
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    \r\n Quote Originally Posted by RobD\r\n \r\n
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    I think Rousseau should be split from the french school - everytime i\'ve studied with a person who ascribes to the rousseau ideal its darker and rounder of a sound than when i study with someone with a french ideal who wants the brigther and crisp articulation. I think there\'s a noticeable different, atleast with the people i\'ve studied with.
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    \r\nif anything there should be a rousseau/french-america/IU school or something. and definitely a japanese school
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    I somewhat agree. I feel that there should be a Midwest school (Rousseau/Hemke) that is totally different than old-school French (Mule/Deffayet/Londeix), new-school French (Delangle and disciples, Fourmeau, Bornkamp), and American (Teal, Sinta and disciples).
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    \r\nBut that\'s just OCD me trying to label everything. At the end of the day, the heritages all kind of start running together. I might look back on this in ten years and laugh about how I thought there was much of a difference...
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    \r\nAngel\r\n
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    Concert Saxophonist ~ Artisan Barman
    \r\nYSS875EXHGLAS • SG2RS • S27 • M/O • 4
    \r\nYAS875EXS • AV1AG • A28 • M/O • 3
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  • \r\n'; pd[675740] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Rick est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    \r\n I think Delangle sounds nothing like Fourmeau or Bornkamp. Delangle is too unique and is carving out his own school.\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[675355] = '\r\n
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    \r\n mvhsleadalto est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    Join Date
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    \r\n Haha, I would definatley say I come down the French line. I currently study with Dr. Ray Smith, who studied with Rousseau. In a way, that makes me Marcel Mule\'s "great-grandson." \r\n
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    \r\n saxsaxsax69 est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    \r\n I was going to say what happened to the British School, but someone beat me too it!\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[675964] = '\r\n
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    \r\n BariSaxzinger\r\n \r\n
    \r\n BariSaxzinger est déconnecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
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    \r\n Where does Harvey Pitel fit int his whole mix of things?\r\n
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  • \r\n'; pd[676031] = '\r\n
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    \r\n J.Max\r\n \r\n
    \r\n J.Max est actuellement connecté\r\n\r\n \r\n
    \r\n \r\n Distinguished Member
    Forum Contributor 2013-2016\r\n
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    \r\n I\'m going to defer that question to someone else. I will state a few facts about him:
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    \r\n1. He studied with Frederick Hemke, but refuses to talk about that time.
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    \r\n2. He also studied with Joe Allard, who he considers to be his main teacher.
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    \r\nOther than that, I will not comment on Mr. Pittel so I will allow someone else to answer.\r\n
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    Current setups:
    \r\nYamaha YSS-875EX, Rousseau NC3 (refaced by Joe Giardullo), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    \r\nYamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    \r\nUnison Black Nickel Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5
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  • \r\n'; pd[676059] = '\r\n
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    \r\n Harvey Pittel is of the Cobra Kai Dojo\r\n
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    \r\n"He who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance; one cannot fly into flying." -Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • \r\n'; // next/previous post info pn[281805] = "2541606,281828"; pn[0] = ",281805"; pn[281828] = "281805,281830"; pn[281830] = "281828,281845"; pn[281845] = "281830,897359"; pn[897359] = "281845,898312"; pn[898312] = "897359,281851"; pn[281851] = "898312,281866"; pn[281866] = "281851,281901"; pn[281901] = "281866,281868"; pn[281868] = "281901,281889"; pn[281889] = "281868,281890"; pn[281890] = "281889,282025"; pn[282025] = "281890,282152"; pn[282152] = "282025,461091"; pn[461091] = "282152,461150"; pn[461150] = "461091,675754"; pn[675754] = "461150,461183"; pn[461183] = "675754,461227"; pn[461227] = "461183,461181"; pn[461181] = "461227,461517"; pn[461517] = "461181,461706"; pn[461706] = "461517,461906"; pn[461906] = "461706,462349"; pn[462349] = "461906,675894"; pn[675894] = "462349,675898"; pn[675898] = "675894,676759"; pn[676759] = "675898,676894"; pn[676894] = "676759,676909"; pn[676909] = "676894,677014"; pn[677014] = "676909,677200"; pn[677200] = "677014,470205"; pn[470205] = "677200,473195"; pn[473195] = "470205,675385"; pn[675385] = "473195,675740"; pn[675740] = "675385,675804"; pn[675804] = "675740,675355"; pn[675355] = "675804,675886"; pn[675886] = "675355,675964"; pn[675964] = "675886,676031"; pn[676031] = "675964,676059"; pn[676059] = "676031,676221"; pn[676221] = "676059,676068"; pn[676068] = "676221,676308"; pn[676308] = "676068,676467"; pn[676467] = "676308,677054"; pn[677054] = "676467,680425"; pn[680425] = "677054,680434"; pn[680434] = "680425,680804"; pn[680804] = "680434,749844"; pn[749844] = "680804,716222"; pn[716222] = "749844,776191"; pn[776191] = "716222,775969"; pn[775969] = "776191,776043"; pn[776043] = "775969,776110"; pn[776110] = "776043,873328"; pn[873328] = "776110,873332"; pn[873332] = "873328,873517"; pn[873517] = "873332,873519"; pn[873519] = "873517,1324391"; pn[1324391] = "873519,1326031"; pn[1326031] = "1324391,1326169"; pn[1326169] = "1326031,1326184"; pn[1326184] = "1326169,1326201"; pn[1326201] = "1326184,2051354"; pn[2051354] = "1326201,2541596"; pn[2541596] = "2051354,2541606"; pn[2541606] = "2541596,281805"; // cached usernames pu[0] = guestphrase; pu[20804] = "J.Max"; pu[15342] = "TMadness1013"; pu[14036] = "Rackety Sax"; pu[9161] = "paulwl"; pu[17884] = "BKauth"; pu[20750] = "WillieB"; pu[9833] = "Razzy"; pu[19157] = "Jeremy"; pu[13928] = "saxophrenic"; pu[15860] = "RickBusarow"; pu[12342] = "srcsax"; pu[9280] = "Rick"; pu[18975] = "Angel"; pu[27081] = "vivace1"; pu[25799] = "bezozzi"; pu[14909] = "prodigal"; pu[17862] = "jbtsax"; pu[10445] = "AMASAX"; pu[25560] = "mkemp"; pu[20106] = "GAS_Wyo"; pu[23329] = "A.Smith"; pu[21686] = "Martinman"; pu[15989] = "KenK"; pu[25538] = "nitrosax"; pu[9723] = "RobD"; pu[26178] = "mvhsleadalto"; pu[14939] = "EZ"; pu[19246] = "saxsaxsax69"; pu[29136] = "BariSaxzinger"; pu[21741] = "BlueLight"; pu[30976] = "Pitagoras"; pu[9820] = "Benny"; pu[29422] = "MartinMusicMan"; pu[19535] = "altosaxguy1"; pu[9623] = "Steve P"; pu[16686] = "qwerty"; pu[29513] = "zxcvbnm"; pu[30025] = "Achristocrat"; pu[9805] = "Buescher"; pu[27872] = "Lament"; pu[18719] = "sonnymobleytrane"; pu[37439] = "Jordan Smith"; pu[9332] = "Paul Cohen"; pu[48806] = "evadnagrom"; pu[35095] = "Stealth Swimmer"; pu[33784] = "lovesthesax"; pu[25913] = "hakukani"; pu[33159] = "JohnM"; pu[12749] = "jrvinson45"; pu[14263] = "drakesaxprof"; pu[55880] = "LloydMcArton"; pu[54173] = "tenorsaxomaniac"; pu[29357] = "DanPerezSax"; // -->

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    1. #1
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      Default "Schools" of playing

      This is really for the newer people here, but I thought I would take it upon myself to explain what is meant by the different schools of playing. I was trained primarily in the French tradition, so if you are a Rascher or Teal person, please feel free to add your comments. I'm not trying to cause debate or contention, but since people have been asking, I thought I'd expalin it a bit better. Let's not talk about why there are feuds or anything else, please.

      French School- Can be traced back to Marcel Mule. Prominent players include Frederick Hemke, Eugene Rousseau, Daniel Deffayet, Jean-Marie Londeix and Claude Delangle. Equipment is exclusively modern. (And normally Selmer or Yamaha) Mouthpieces ususally have "shaped" chambers, such as the S-80, Rousseau NC, or Vandoren. Methods include linear etudes, some scale work, articulation work, and repertoire. Tone tends to be brighter and articulations tend to be lighter than the other two schools. There is quite a bit of crossover in training with the American school.

      Rascher School-Can be traced back, obviously, to Sigurd Rascher. Prominent players include Carina Rascher, David Bilger, and Paul Cohen. Equipment is usually vintage, especially Buescher. (Many Rascher people feel that modern horns have gone away from Adolphe Sax's original design). Mouthpieces are exclusively round chambered and resistant, such as Caravan and Buescher. The most important feature that differentiates Rascher training is the use of overtone exercises. Tone tends to be darker, articulations heavier, and vibrato is slower than the other two schools. (although this varies.) There is very little crossover training with the other two schools.

      American school-Can be traced back to Larry Teal, although there are very few "pure" American school players. Prominent players include Donald Sinta, Michael Hester (who has had a lot of French training also), and Steven Mauk. Equipment is usually modern (Mark VI or newer). Mouthpieces vary, although many American school players use Selmer LTs for obvious reasons. Tone is somewhere between the German and French schools, and the vibrato is usually terminal in imitation of flute or voice. Most American school players will have French training as well.


      There is one other school of playing, which I hesitate to mention, but in my studies of this subject I think it's worth explaining. I will NOT give anyone specific names on this:

      "Lunatic Fringe"-This is my name for teachers who have created cults of personality around themselves and do not acknowledge any other influence. Equipment is usually EXACTLY what said teacher uses and all tone, etc. is in imitation of that teacher. I will leave you to your own conclusions on this one.
      Last edited by J.Max; 10-10-2016 at 12:26 AM.

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