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What IS the difference in Soprano's Selmer Super 80 vs Series II...??

11K views 38 replies 10 participants last post by  Lambros 
#1 ·
I am currently looking for a Selmer soprano, (please gang, don't spin, no other makers please)

The thread title says it all.

I have read most everything I can find. I still don't fully understand what are all the mechanical/layout diffs ? I read something about springs inside rods ???? Sounds a bit strange to me.

Sound is subjective, some say the Super 80 is a deeper sound, I like deeper in an in a bright horn like Sop.

Thanks all for response !!





My history:
Yrs ago I played VI's.. my first 2 Sops. Then over time some Vintage horns, Conn, Buescher, King, I tried Asian, Tai and Chinese, Kessler etc. Actually I bought a new II mid '80's but damn it was swiped about my 3rd gig in .. I do not remember much about,..GGrrrrrr...Then couple yrs later I bought a new series III silverplate. Over time I did not fall in love with it. No more III's
 
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#2 ·
Get a series II. They redesigned the tonehole placement on the series II and they are a lot more in tune. They sound about the same, but I had horrible intonation problems on my Series I even after having it worked on by Emilio Lyons.

Sopranos are like spouses. Once you find a good one, you stick with it for life. I “dated around” a lot but my YSS-875EX isn’t going anywhere ever because I don’t want to deal with relearning the whole horn. I tried them all: Selmer, Buffet, Keilwerth, Yani, other Yamahas, various vintage American horns (I still have a curved Buescher that also isn’t going anywhere); various Taiwanese horns including the Eastman 52nd St, Vikings, and Cannonbals; you name it, I’ve tried it.


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#3 ·
Sopranos are like spouses. Once you find a good one, you stick with it for life. I "dated around" a lot but my YSS-875EX isn't going anywhere ever because I don't want to deal with relearning the whole horn. I tried them all: Selmer, Buffet, Keilwerth, Yani, other Yamahas, various vintage American horns (I still have a curved Buescher that also isn't going anywhere); various Taiwanese horns including the Eastman 52nd St, Vikings, and Cannonbals; you name it, I've tried it.
Could you explain more -- why the Yamaha 875 ? For you, what were the advantages over all the others ?
 
#10 ·
Rude dude you're in the wrong thread,,Personally I think Yamamma s suck
OK. Well, someone asked. Sorry if you took it as a hijack.

As an aside, I hate Selmer Super Action 80 sopranos. So there's that.

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#4 ·
Isn't a Serie II a Super 80?
 
#17 ·
I don't think generalizations work when parsing different models and brands. If Cash wants a Selmer SA80 or SAII, then that's all that is necessary to know - and to answer. But I don't see harm in mentioning other experiences/brands to illustrate points. After all, this whole site is read by many more than post or open a thread. We all get to participate and I'll bet other readers enjoyed reading all of the posts.

At any rate, like so many brands, manufacturers make continuing changes as production goes along. Whether or not those changes really mean something is another issue. I'm betting that one could find a certain SA-80 and compare it to a certain SAII and find no differences - or huge differences. It is ALL about the individual horn.

Having said that, I am curious about what Selmer did to make any differences between an SA-80 and an SAII. What were the changes?

J.Max already wrote about tone-hole placement. Yet, I recently played a silver SA-80 that was delightful. I also played several different brands that day, side-by-side and they all sounded like good-playing sopranos. Maybe the differences between the SA-80 and the SAII aren't all that much, across the production spectrum. DAVE

edit: Looks like J.Max and I were writing at the same time.
 
#18 ·
I should mention...the tonehole placement is a subtle change. It’s not like when Yamaha changed the 62. A few have been moved slightly up or down to accommodate the new bore. The intonation is very good on the Series II.


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#19 ·
Well I have to be honest, this info is all so general it don't mean much to me. Dave you have a theory that sounds reasonable to me.


Now, back to the question..do the changes over time mean something, when did they happen ?? what were they..??


ah well, the mysteries of life...:whistle:
 
#26 ·
Here's a couple more old shots..the Curvy is a 20's KING, great sound..you can hear it on my sound clips (see signature) check out "Wonderful World" I recorded that one before Kenny did his version..The second pic is the silver series III..I prefer the II, I never liked fussing with a removeable neck.

Cheers Gang
 

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#31 ·
I have only tried(owned) a sa 80 I , never even tried a series II. While I just don't personally like the selmer sound on soprano (just me). Too tight a core on an already tight sounding horn. I have to tame the sound more than with any Yani, Yami,etc... I have tried. That breaking point between sweet and nasal commercial is just closer on selmer. Again that's just me. Anyway I would say, if you find a soprano you click with (no matter the brand), just stick with it. IMO with sopranos you really have to follow your gut (reality for any horn, but more soprano). I learned that the hard way with VIs , Sa 80 I and Series III. The crowd's hype and approval were just making my ears miserable. Try the SA 80 and Series II. If you really like either, just get it and forget the other one exists. You will be a happy cat. That's my personal recipe for life.
 
#32 ·
15 yrs ago I A/B'd a new SA80III Silverplate vs the solid sterling Yanigisawa for 8 hrs, I bought the Selmer. That said I like the one piece II better than the III and a good VI best of all. But I did not want to invest that much dough into a Sop. I never played a Yamaha Sop but I held a new yama Bari a few weeks ago and to me it didn't feel as substantial my Selmer Bari's

the II is a darn good sounding Sop.
 
#33 ·
Congrats on finding the horn. As far as the various brands go, I fully realize that most of us parse these things down to very subtle distinctions. But I suspect that 99.9% of the audience won’t hear the differences among all the models, and even more importantly, won’t care about the differences they fail to hear. So, it matters to the player - after all, we as players must be satisfied before all else, but beyond the player, few know or care.

I’ve owned all the models you can imagine, over time. They all sound like me playing them. Of course I heard the differences, but only when I played them. During playback, I wouldn’t know one from the other if I hadn’t been there. DAVE
 
#37 ·
Cash, I wanted to reflect a bit before I commented on the differences between the SA80 and SA80II sopranos. I'll start by saying that there are more similarities than differences in the overall concept of the design and the differences aside from a tweak of the upper tone hole placement, especially on the D, E, F and I'm almost certain that the height of the C was altered. It's been a while since I've held an SA80 sop and when I visit Perry Ritter's shop, he may have one there and all likelihood he'll confirm that difference. What has remained almost completely unchanged is the left sided inline low C#, B, Bb keys and tone holes. Again I need to see an SA80 to see if any significant change was made to the lower stack aside from the refinements of a tweak between E & F. The big thing I noticed is that Selmer kept the scale of the Eb tone hole in proportion with the lower stack where as Yamaha scaled it up to be almost as big as the low C tone hole. That was my least favorite feature of the YSS62R. It just played a little too spread and unfocused.

I mention Yamaha because my main sop was the 62R for 12 years, I knew the ins and outs of the mechanical working of that horn. They're was trade off in sound quality only when compared to really good Selmers. I also briefly played Yanagisawa and both vintage and modern Keilwerth sops. I like that Selmer continued with the SA80 and decided correctly to distinguish the next line simply with the II added. Yes there are the obvious key touch changes but the biggest change is the one not seen on the surface: the spring loaded bushings in the key rods. So far I've experienced no issues with them. I would guess it was quite a challenge to make them on the soprano where everything is decidedly miniature in design.

Upper stack, palm & LH pinky keys
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Upper stack detail
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Lower stack key detail
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