How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it? - Page 5

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  1. #81
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    Diversity. Sorry, but Iím calling B.S. if thatís the card you are going to play.

    Did you read what the OP outlined as his practice? No thanks. If you are going to CHOOSE to live in an apartment, then banshee play is just not appropriate - unless you have learned a priori that banshee is what that apartment building is about. And, FWIW, if I were to visit an apartment building where everyone was practicing music at all hours of the day, I would either embrace it or choose not to live there. Choices.

    A wise person will seek a living place not only on whether the rent is good, but whether their lifestyle fits with the rest of the people that already live there. Itís not about diversity. It IS about respect.
    Nonsense. Lots of people don't have the luxury of CHOOSING to live in house and the numbers are rapidly increasing. So what you are really saying only pertains to wealthy people in which case your point is mute. Importantly, I said nothing about practicing at all hours of the day or not being considerate; quite the opposite. Personally, I don't care much flute playing or a number of other sounds, smells and sights, but it comes with the territory of living with others. Tolerance and respect are very easy when it is something that doesn't bother you; much harder when it is something one dislikes.
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  3. #82
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by brasscane View Post
    Nonsense. Lots of people don't have the luxury of CHOOSING to live in house and the numbers are rapidly increasing. So what you are really saying only pertains to wealthy people in which case your point is mute.
    You are choosing to ignore the point. I said nothing about buying a house. What I did say is to be aware of the community - and yes, an apartment building is a community - that you CHOOSE to live in. If your lifestyle - practicing altissimo and intentionally playing off-key - is incongruent with the community values, then either accept the established standards for that community, or live elsewhere. Itís not about being wealthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by brasscane View Post
    Importantly, I said nothing about practicing at all hours of the day or not being considerate; quite the opposite. Personally, I don't care much flute playing or a number of other sounds, smells and sights, but it comes with the territory of living with others. Tolerance and respect are very easy when it is something that doesn't bother you; much harder when it is something one dislikes.
    Iíll ask once more because you label me as so harsh: Did you read the OPís idea of practice? Do you know what you are defending here?

    I go beyond tolerance - I seek to attain acceptance. And FWIW, that is easier for everyone if they include respect in their own practice.

    I send compassion to everyone. No exceptions.
    Go for The Tone,

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    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

    As a Veteran for Peace, I am already against the next war.

  4. #83
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    Iíll ask once more because you label me as so harsh: Did you read the OPís idea of practice? Do you know what you are defending here?
    Exactly. What got me was the part about purposely playing out of tune! That should be illegal.

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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by extradarcafe View Post
    I have found that a small foam strip under the strings, located very close the to bridge, cuts the sound of the guitar down by over 75%! You don't need to buy an electric guitar with a volume knob. Somebody try this; it works.
    very funny.
    "Once you stop learning, you start dying" -Einstein

  6. #85
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    You are choosing to ignore the point. I said nothing about buying a house. What I did say is to be aware of the community - and yes, an apartment building is a community - that you CHOOSE to live in. If your lifestyle - practicing altissimo and intentionally playing off-key - is incongruent with the community values, then either accept the established standards for that community, or live elsewhere. Itís not about being wealthy.



    Iíll ask once more because you label me as so harsh: Did you read the OPís idea of practice? Do you know what you are defending here?

    I go beyond tolerance - I seek to attain acceptance. And FWIW, that is easier for everyone if they include respect in their own practice.

    I send compassion to everyone. No exceptions.
    In many cases no, you don't CHOOSE where to live - period. In large parts of the world, it is a totally dated notion. You live where your work dictates and you can afford to and that is reality for the vast majority of individuals on this planet. You may be well off or have lucked out buying a house many years ago, but then congratulations, because you are among the privileged few.

    I am not defending the OP. May I draw your attention to post #4, which was written before revealing details of the OPs ideas of "practice". Hence, either you can see into the future or you are trying to rationalize your statements after the fact. So if you ask once more, I suggest you reread my first post in this thread, which addresses the sentiments you shared in post #4.
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by brasscane View Post
    In many cases no, you don't CHOOSE where to live - period. In large parts of the world, it is a totally dated notion. You live where your work dictates and you can afford to and that is reality for the vast majority of individuals on this planet. You may be well off or have lucked out buying a house many years ago, but then congratulations, because you are among the privileged few.

    I am not defending the OP. May I draw your attention to post #4, which was written before revealing details of the OPs ideas of "practice". Hence, either you can see into the future or you are trying to rationalize your statements after the fact. So if you ask once more, I suggest you reread my first post in this thread, which addresses the sentiments you shared in post #4.
    Read Post #39, where I shared for everyone a collection of the OPís previous posts. No, I wasnít using a crystal ball or trying to rationalize my post, I had already read the OPís previous threads.
    Go for The Tone,

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    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

    As a Veteran for Peace, I am already against the next war.

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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    Read Post #39, where I shared for everyone a collection of the OPís previous posts. No, I wasnít using a crystal ball or trying to rationalize my post, I had already read the OPís previous threads.
    I quoted you on and responded to post #4. Those were the sentiments that I dissented to. Rationalize it anyway you want. I don't know law sufficiently well to know where the lines are drawn between first amendment rights and rules governing condo's and rental apartments, but I would argue that current practices are highly skewed towards the general views you express in your post that I referenced. Moreover, that these views are neither tolerant nor productive when scrutinized.
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by brasscane View Post
    I quoted you on and responded to post #4. Those were the sentiments that I dissented to. Rationalize it anyway you want. I don't know law sufficiently well to know where the lines are drawn between first amendment rights and rules governing condo's and rental apartments, but I would argue that current practices are highly skewed towards the general views you express in your post that I referenced. Moreover, that these views are neither tolerant nor productive when scrutinized.
    It is nice to able to pick and choose, isnít it? Ignore the whole if it doesnít suit you. First world problems...

    Peace.
    Go for The Tone,

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    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

    As a Veteran for Peace, I am already against the next war.

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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by brasscane View Post
    In many cases no, you don't CHOOSE where to live - period. In large parts of the world, it is a totally dated notion. You live where your work dictates and you can afford to and that is reality for the vast majority of individuals on this planet. You may be well off or have lucked out buying a house many years ago, but then congratulations, because you are among the privileged few.
    Presumably, apartment dwellers who complain about a fellow tenant's noisy musical practice are just as "unprivileged" as the musician, yet their concerns seem decidedly secondary to you. This is clearly not a case of the rich telling the poor to shut up. If the OP's neighbors can hear him through their walls, then they are not rich either.

    Someone who argues, "I may lack the financial means to buy a house, but I still have the right to make loud sounds in my home as a form of self-expression," has to recognize that many of his/her neighbors will reply, "I may lack the financial means to buy a house, but I still have the right to generally undisturbed sleep in my home as a form of self-preservation," or "I may lack the financial means to buy a house, but I still have the right to relax in peace and relative quiet in my home without having to negotiate over it."

    It might be tempting for a musician to insist that "musical rights" are inherently superior to anyone's right of quiet enjoyment, but I think that's presumptuous. If another resident believes "the idea that silence is golden and has some inherent value," to quote another of your posts, who are we to say that he or she is wrong? One's home is not a public forum.

  11. #90
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by LostConn View Post
    Presumably, apartment dwellers who complain about a fellow tenant's noisy musical practice are just as "unprivileged" as the musician, yet their concerns seem decidedly secondary to you. This is clearly not a case of the rich telling the poor to shut up. If the OP's neighbors can hear him through their walls, then they are not rich either.

    Someone who argues, "I may lack the financial means to buy a house, but I still have the right to make loud sounds in my home as a form of self-expression," has to recognize that many of his/her neighbors will reply, "I may lack the financial means to buy a house, but I still have the right to generally undisturbed sleep in my home as a form of self-preservation," or "I may lack the financial means to buy a house, but I still have the right to relax in peace and relative quiet in my home without having to negotiate over it."

    It might be tempting for a musician to insist that "musical rights" are inherently superior to anyone's right of quiet enjoyment, but I think that's presumptuous. If another resident believes "the idea that silence is golden and has some inherent value," to quote another of your posts, who are we to say that he or she is wrong? One's home is not a public forum.
    I agree that apartment dwellers with or without musical interests share the same lack of privacy. I didn't argue that one group was superior to the other; merely that they should co-exist and that co-exsistence means room for more than a state of permanent "golden" silence. Apartment dwellers also include one or more of crying babies, rambunctious kids, couples arguing (I hate that), noisy love-making; smelly cooking along with a host of other behaviors. My argument was not that people should be deprived sleep or listen to 100 decibel rock band practicing. What I voiced an objection to was statements such as "It is not defensible" to practice your sax when you live in an apartment building. You can misconstrue whatever you want in what I wrote but mine was a live and let live type of argument. That includes being able to practice a sax, albeit obviously with respect for others.
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  12. #91
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    The Capitol, man, not the White House. Different part of town.

    Quote Originally Posted by extradarcafe View Post
    Ever play any duets with Bill C.?

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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana in Philly View Post
    The Capitol, man, not the White House. Different part of town.
    Sorry. I remember Mass. Ave. as being a diagonal running from god-knows-where NW to just north of the White House and on through the Capitol into SE. Anyway, evidently an opportunity lost.

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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sbs17 View Post
    I have decided to use this situation as an opportunity to try a different instrument. An instrument with a volume knob. Not just for my neighbors sake but for my own hearing as well. I always found the sound of the sax to be be loud and bright, whatever the mouthpiece, reed, or song I am playing. Whether I'm in tune or not. Over the years I have become oversaturated by it. I actually feel liberated by this because I happen to like my new instrument very much.
    Umm....guys. Problem solved. As Paul Harvey used to say: "Good Day"!

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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jgreiner View Post
    Umm....guys. Problem solved. As Paul Harvey used to say: "Good Day"!
    I thought it was "Now you know the rest of the story?"

  16. #95
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by extradarcafe View Post
    I thought it was "Now you know the rest of the story?"
    Paul would say "Good Day" at the end of his news cast.

    "And now you know... the rest of the story" was the closing on his show:

    "The Rest of the Story
    The Rest of the Story was a Monday-through-Friday radio program originally hosted by Paul Harvey. Beginning as a part of his newscasts during the Second World War and then premiering as its own series on the ABC Radio Networks on May 10, 1976, The Rest of the Story consisted of stories presented as little-known or forgotten facts on a variety of subjects with some key element of the story held back until the end. The broadcasts always concluded with a variation on the tag line "And now you know the rest of the story."

    ....and now....page 3

  17. #96
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    Default Re: How to defend sax playing in an apartment building when the neighbors don't like it?

    One thing that appears to have gone overlooked was the neighborsí work schedule. If the neighbor has a 3rd shift job that could be the reason for the response.

    I live in a townhouse and when I moved in, spoke to my neighbors on either side and agreed not to practice beyond 8:30pm.

    Itís worked well. It helps that the neighbor on one side sings in a community choir. So I got lucky there

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