Why didn't the C-Melody saxophone become more popular? - Page 4

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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Why didn't the C-Melody saxophone become more popular?

    Quote Originally Posted by PigSquealer View Post
    *** If I remember correctly the “C” mouthpiece was approximately 10 mm shorter than regular tenor. And as turf3 mentioned intended to be pushed all the way on. Thus placing the mpc in the exact same place each use.

    Found this one of several videos https://youtu.be/Js4ntUgJIUE
    In post 53 above you will see that the Conn company was worried that people were putting the cork too far into the mpc, thereby altering the shape of the chamber. According to the people who designed the microtuner, it was intended to make sure that no one had to put the cork in close to the end of the neck, nor very far on to the cork.

    The microtuner is not designed to have the mpc pushed all the way up against it, according to the way I read the material.


    "The Conn tuning device was developed to overcome serious faults resulting from tuning the Saxophone by pushing the mouthpiece in or out on the mouthpipe. When the mouthpipe extends too far into the mouthpiece chamber the low notes do not respond properly; when it does not extend far enough, the high notes are hard to get. There is an exact position of the Mouthpipe in the Mouthpiece chamber which should be maintained for proper results and the Conn tuning device permits tuning by turning a knurled ring, without disturbing this critical position."

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  3. #62
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    Default Re: Why didn't the C-Melody saxophone become more popular?

    [QUOTE=click;3553241]In post 53 above you will see that the Conn company was worried that people were putting the cork too far into the mpc, thereby altering the shape of the chamber. According to the people who designed the microtuner, it was intended to make sure that no one had to put the cork in close to the end of the neck, nor very far on to the cork.

    The microtuner is not designed to have the mpc pushed all the way up against it, according to the way I read the material.

    OK you made me really curious. I do believe you are correct my friend. Took some measurements and pictures. It appears the mouthpiece is in the correct position about an 1/8”/.125 from bottoming out Against the microtuner. This makes it exactly net with the boar in the mouthpiece to the cork/ tube/ chamber. The overall adjusting range of the micro tuner is approximately .625 or 5/8 inch.I counted from where the threads were just exposed ( fully out )and then turned two turns back in then measured.



    70B210F9-5533-4D91-8853-1A06CCC8D2C2.jpgE0B229BC-9D23-4F08-AB9B-87118BB4175A.jpg861606E3-FCBC-4B8C-B305-415F6550B3F6.jpg8581E3F4-6F29-48CC-B897-004014ADED4C.jpg580F473D-3AFE-4A6B-BA30-57EA343B1815.jpg
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  4. #63
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    Default Re: Why didn't the C-Melody saxophone become more popular?

    Range of microtuner. MPC pulled out just short of .250 (1/4”inch) so no at 1/8” it’s not in the chamber.
    Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig 🐷

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    Default Re: Why didn't the C-Melody saxophone become more popular?

    "THE CONN SAXOPHONE MICROTUNER
    After a mouthpiece is placed on the neck of a saxophone it is then moved in (farther on) to raise the
    pitch or out to lower the pitch. The adjustment of the pitch by varying the tubing length by one
    method or another is common to most wind instruments. In most, if not all, cases the properties of the
    mouthpieces are not affected. However, as the mouthpiece of a saxophone is moved farther on the
    neck, the neck then protrudes farther into the mouthpiece, causing a reduction in the chamber
    volume of the mouthpiece. The chamber volume is believed to affect the intonation, quality, and
    stability of the notes produced by the saxophone.
    In July 1919, Conn engineer Edward J. Gulick was granted a patent for a saxophone microtuner, the
    primary purpose being to provide a convenient means to adjust the overall pitch of the instrument
    without having to move the mouthpiece on the cork. An apparently unintended benefit was that the
    mouthpiece chamber volume remains unaffected."
    https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/imag...Microtuner.pdf

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    Default Re: Why didn't the C-Melody saxophone become more popular?

    Some older mpcs, perhaps especially C melody, have very short shanks.

    Consequently it would be easy for a neck and cork to be pushed into such mpcs far enough to alter the chamber.

    On the other hand, someone who has a Bb tenor mpc might find a benefit from reducing the effective size of the chamber when using that mpc on a C melody, and therefore would want the cork and the neck further inside the mpc.

    Ultimately, however, the original design of the microtuner was to keep the neck tube and cork out of the mpc chamber, and to allow for tuning by length only, without the influence of altering the mpc volume.

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    Default Re: Why didn't the C-Melody saxophone become more popular?

    Quote Originally Posted by click View Post
    Ultimately, however, the original design of the microtuner was to keep the neck tube and cork out of the mpc chamber, and to allow for tuning by length only, without the influence of altering the mpc volume.
    I think that will work best with a mouthpiece specifically designed for that particular model of horn, so you can just push the mouthpiece all the way on (or almost all the way on) and be done with it, and let the microtuner do the rest. But if you use a different mouthpiece, you may find that the tasks have doubled. First, you have to find the "sweet spot" on the cork, i.e., the point at which the mouthpiece comes into pretty good tune without any intrusion into the mouthpiece chamber. Then you have to fine-tune with the microtuner. You'll still have the advantage of being able to adjust the chamber volume and the length of the neck tube independently, but it will be more work.

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    Default Re: Why didn't the C-Melody saxophone become more popular?

    I have a old Conn mpc for the C mel and a Conn microtuner C mel.

    The mpc is only 8.5 cm long and the cork on the neck is 3.5 cm long.

    My modern C mel mpc is 9 cm long, all of the difference being shank.

    My Metalite for Bb tenor is 10.5 cm long.

    My Metalite cut down for C mel is 9 cm long.

    The micro tuner should just be ignored in finding where on the cork the mpc belongs.

    Set the microtuner to the middle position so that it can lengthen the neck or shorten the neck, either way.

    Then put the mpc on the cork and tune up.

    When I do that, mpcs end up 1/4th to 1/16th of a inch from the microtuner.

    (The cut down tenor mpc go almost all the way on.)

    My Chu alto has a microtuner, and it tunes up at about 1 cm cork showing on most mpcs.

    In both cases using the microtuner alters the length of the neck without altering the position of the cork inside the mpc, which is why they put the microtuner on the neck in the first place.

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