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  1. #41
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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandmommy View Post
    ...My PERSONAL take on the issue is still they are a high schooler that has hit a wall, lost their mojo, and has gotten their undies in a bunch because of it. ...
    At 17 kids want everything NOW and try to master everything at the same time thus creating a mess of frenzied DRAMA.
    Slow down. Work on one aspect of musianship at a time. Playing like one of the 'Big Boys' TAKES TIME.
    At 17 parents are stupid, out of touch. They have 'no idea' the angst being suffered.
    ...
    I like this.

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by FredCDobbs View Post
    I'm going to say that from at least prior to WW2, seventeen year olds were out in the world, and were expected to act like the young men they actually were.
    I hope you understand my previous reply to you was partly in jest....

    I understand your gist. But just because society in earlier days may have required or forced upon people of a certain age the need to act a certain way, this doesn't necessarily mean they were any more equipped emotionally or personally to successfully do this.

    I do understand and often concur with criticisms along the lines of 'well, there's a first-world problem' and all this. So in a large sense I agree with your intimation that really...this isn't a 'crisis' by any means. I will also go so far as to state my observation that many 20-somethings these days are far more feckless than we were 25 years ago (this from direct association, as my daughter is in her mid 20's and we live very close to one another and out 20-something and 50-something circles interact with one another more so than probably the average).

    So I actually agree with your initial reply far more than I disagree with it. And I am on board with your subsequent reply as well, for the most part. I just wanted to note that oftentimes the trade-off for 'fitting in' and 'succeeding' in generations past required an individual to suppress a particular part of their own core. So....trade-offs.

    If one were playing Devil's Advocate, one might ask if expressing one's fears, hopes and desires openly is not, in a sense....laudable ?
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  4. #43
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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Bandmommy got this right, and I think this is the crux of the matter with the OP: "At 17 kids want everything NOW and try to master everything at the same time thus creating a mess of frenzied DRAMA."

    Quote Originally Posted by SaxMandu View Post
    You mean this is supposed to change when we become adults?
    And no, it won't change for many people, only those who can recognize and come to grips with REALITY. But given current events, I'm starting to wonder if more than 50% of the population, at best, is capable of doing that.

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by JL View Post
    Bandmommy got this right: "At 17 kids want everything NOW and try to master everything at the same time thus creating a mess of frenzied DRAMA."



    And no, it won't change for many people, only those who can recognize and come to grips with REALITY. But given current events, I'm starting to wonder if more than 50% of the population, at best, is capable of doing that.
    I'd be happy with 33%....33% could change a lot....
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  6. #45
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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayePDX View Post
    I'd be happy with 33%....33% could change a lot....
    LOL, yeah Jaye, but that's a pretty low bar for the advancement of civilization. If only 33% are capable of separating fact from fiction and have any kind of handle on reality, we're in deep %^&$. Then again, this may be a reality in itself that we have to accept!

    Which brings us right back to the topic. The fact is, even a prodigy won't master a musical instrument overnight or in only a year or two, let alone the rest of us. I bet the reason so many would-be musicians quit the game is due to a lack of patience and perseverance.

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayePDX View Post
    I hope you understand my previous reply to you was partly in jest....

    I understand your gist. But just because society in earlier days may have required or forced upon people of a certain age the need to act a certain way, this doesn't necessarily mean they were any more equipped emotionally or personally to successfully do this.

    I do understand and often concur with criticisms along the lines of 'well, there's a first-world problem' and all this. So in a large sense I agree with your intimation that really...this isn't a 'crisis' by any means. I will also go so far as to state my observation that many 20-somethings these days are far more feckless than we were 25 years ago (this from direct association, as my daughter is in her mid 20's and we live very close to one another and out 20-something and 50-something circles interact with one another more so than probably the average).

    So I actually agree with your initial reply far more than I disagree with it. And I am on board with your subsequent reply as well, for the most part. I just wanted to note that oftentimes the trade-off for 'fitting in' and 'succeeding' in generations past required an individual to suppress a particular part of their own core. So....trade-offs.

    If one were playing Devil's Advocate, one might ask if expressing one's fears, hopes and desires openly is not, in a sense....laudable ?
    Yes, I understood that you were being a big waggish, Jaye. Nonetheless, you forced me to think through what I had written in order to defend it, which is a good thing.

    My real concern is that a 17 year old with a problem that he, at least, perceives to be dire, apparently does not have an older person available to confide in and from whom to get some advice, and can make the outrageous statement that an internet forum is his last resort (hyperbolic though it most likely is). At that age, even if I couldn't talk to my father, there were plenty of older people around me, and I often spoke to older guys I was working with when I felt I needed a mature and experienced viewpoint on some personal issue. I get the sense that young people today are out there in their own world, on their own, without any definitive, non-relativistic guidance from an older person. It's like the mature, adult world has abdicated its responsibility to them. Does not bode well.

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by JL View Post
    And no, it won't change for many people, only those who can recognize and come to grips with REALITY. But given current events, I'm starting to wonder if more than 50% of the population, at best, is capable of doing that.
    With computers, smart phones, and smart TV's, more than 50% of the population spends probably half it's time in virtual reality, so there's no need to wonder. So many times, I've been in restaurants and looked over at a family table, where each kid and both adults had their heads down, silently staring at their respective phones. They do not lift their heads, not once, until the food is brought, and then the kids often continue to stair at the little screens as they eat. No conversation whatsoever. It actually gives me the creeps. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in an episode from Black Mirror.

  9. #48
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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    I tried to read your post but it was like 50000 flies had hit a windscreen and was impossible to read. Hope you got your crisis solved, whatever it was.
    Jazz without the blues is like BBQ without the sauce - JL

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by FredCDobbs View Post
    With computers, smart phones, and smart TV's, more than 50% of the population spends probably half it's time in virtual reality, so there's no need to wonder. So many times, I've been in restaurants and looked over at a family table, where each kid and both adults had their heads down, silently staring at their respective phones. They do not lift their heads, not once, until the food is brought, and then the kids often continue to stair at the little screens as they eat. No conversation whatsoever. It actually gives me the creeps. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in an episode from Black Mirror.
    Man, do I agree with you on this, although I'm not familiar with Black Mirror (guess I better Google it, and yes I'm aware of the irony of that statement). I think I told this story on here before, but I'll never forget when I was loading out after a Summer gig at the local seafood restaurant/bar a couple years ago and there was a group of 5 or 6 guys in their mid-20s gathered around and instead of 'shooting the breeze' or ogling the scenery (views of the ocean, beautiful women, etc), they were all staring down at cell phones, pushing things around with their fingers! For some reason that really blew me away at the time. Now I see it all the time, everywhere I go. Ok, rant over.

    And hey SaxPunter, good to hear from you, but don't get me started...

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by FredCDobbs View Post
    Yes, I understood that you were being a big waggish, Jaye. Nonetheless, you forced me to think through what I had written in order to defend it, which is a good thing.

    My real concern is that a 17 year old with a problem that he, at least, perceives to be dire, apparently does not have an older person available to confide in and from whom to get some advice, and can make the outrageous statement that an internet forum is his last resort (hyperbolic though it most likely is). At that age, even if I couldn't talk to my father, there were plenty of older people around me, and I often spoke to older guys I was working with when I felt I needed a mature and experienced viewpoint on some personal issue. I get the sense that young people today are out there in their own world, on their own, without any definitive, non-relativistic guidance from an older person. It's like the mature, adult world has abdicated its responsibility to them. Does not bode well.
    I cannot disagree with any of that....
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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by JL View Post
    LOL, yeah Jaye, but that's a pretty low bar for the advancement of civilization.
    Damn straight...

    Quote Originally Posted by JL View Post
    Man, do I agree with you on this, although I'm not familiar with Black Mirror (guess I better Google it, and yes I'm aware of the irony of that statement). I think I told this story on here before, but I'll never forget when I was loading out after a Summer gig at the local seafood restaurant/bar a couple years ago and there was a group of 5 or 6 guys in their mid-20s gathered around and instead of 'shooting the breeze' or ogling the scenery (views of the ocean, beautiful women, etc), they were all staring down at cell phones, pushing things around with their fingers! For some reason that really blew me away at the time. Now I see it all the time, everywhere I go. Ok, rant over.
    Did anyone ever see the flick 'The Zero Theorem' ? One of Terry Gilliam's lesser-known, but more recent works. Fantastic scene in it where there is a 'company party', and there is zero verbal conversation going on; literally everyone at the party is communicating...sometimes to each other , sometimes maybe not - via pads and tablets, even though they are literally standing right next to each other. Hilarious, and scary.
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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by JL View Post
    Man, do I agree with you on this, although I'm not familiar with Black Mirror (guess I better Google it, and yes I'm aware of the irony of that statement). I think I told this story on here before, but I'll never forget when I was loading out after a Summer gig at the local seafood restaurant/bar a couple years ago and there was a group of 5 or 6 guys in their mid-20s gathered around and instead of 'shooting the breeze' or ogling the scenery (views of the ocean, beautiful women, etc), they were all staring down at cell phones, pushing things around with their fingers! For some reason that really blew me away at the time. Now I see it all the time, everywhere I go. Ok, rant over.

    And hey SaxPunter, good to hear from you, but don't get me started...
    I couldn't help myself :-)
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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Back before 'devices' kids were taught work ethic, problem solving skills, that there were consequences for your actions, personal responsibility.
    Today... Not so much. All of this 'entitlement' does not bode well for our future.
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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by bandmommy View Post
    Read previous posts by the OP. This 'dilemma' has been going on for the past couple of years.
    Thanks to bandmommy's comment, I checked out the total 4 other posts by OP. He was 15 then. I think it's important to note that he hasn't posted again in this thread that he started. To all the good-hearted SOTWers who took the time to post thoughtful responses: we have been trolled.

    bandmommy is usually right
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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinMusicMan View Post
    Thanks to bandmommy's comment, I checked out the total 4 other posts by OP. He was 15 then. I think it's important to note that he hasn't posted again in this thread that he started. To all the good-hearted SOTWers who took the time to post thoughtful responses: we have been trolled.

    bandmommy is usually right
    While bandmommy is often right, maybe the OP just got his device taken away, or is obsessively practicing. Whatever. A lot of times I get the best and most useful info by reading responses to other peoples' questions, so whether the OP was trolling us, or is less obsessively on here than the rest of us, or just doesn't have the social skills to check back on responses and say thanks, or is off on a backpacking trip, it is still nice to see the responses, and they are up on SOTW for others (who may be in a similar place) to read.

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by artstove View Post
    While bandmommy is often right, maybe the OP just got his device taken away, or is obsessively practicing. Whatever. A lot of times I get the best and most useful info by reading responses to other peoples' questions, so whether the OP was trolling us, or is less obsessively on here than the rest of us, or just doesn't have the social skills to check back on responses and say thanks, or is off on a backpacking trip, it is still nice to see the responses, and they are up on SOTW for others (who may be in a similar place) to read.

    Right on!

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by artstove View Post
    While bandmommy is often right, maybe the OP just got his device taken away, or is obsessively practicing. Whatever. A lot of times I get the best and most useful info by reading responses to other peoples' questions, so whether the OP was trolling us, or is less obsessively on here than the rest of us, or just doesn't have the social skills to check back on responses and say thanks, or is off on a backpacking trip, it is still nice to see the responses, and they are up on SOTW for others (who may be in a similar place) to read.
    Yes. Origins of the topic are not necessarily relevant to the ensuing conversation.

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by JL View Post
    . . . although I'm not familiar with Black Mirror (guess I better Google it, and yes I'm aware of the irony of that statement).
    Black Mirror is a British series composed of stand-alone, independent stories, all of which are themed on the various ways technology can go very, very badly wrong (with the exception of two upbeat episodes). It doesn't matter in what order, if any, they are watched, although all 4 seasons are eminently bingeable. I believe all or most of them are written by the same guy. Think Twilight Zone around a general theme, updated with superb writing and production values. Some of them are pretty horrific, but in novel, brilliant ways. It's on Netflix. If you watch it, you're in for a treat that has a very troublesome aftertaste.

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    Default Re: I desperately need help.

    Quote Originally Posted by FredCDobbs View Post
    Black Mirror is a British series composed of stand-alone, independent stories, all of which are themed on the various ways technology can go very, very badly wrong (with the exception of two upbeat episodes). It doesn't matter in what order, if any, they are watched, although all 4 seasons are eminently bingeable. I believe all or most of them are written by the same guy. Think Twilight Zone around a general theme, updated with superb writing and production values. Some of them are pretty horrific, but in novel, brilliant ways. It's on Netflix. If you watch it, you're in for a treat that has a very troublesome aftertaste.

    Has it got that gore-porn Walking Dead thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by click View Post
    Has it got that gore-porn Walking Dead thing?
    Nothing on that level. But many of the stories are actually much more disturbing than any gore could be, if perfectly plausible dystopias disturb you.

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