martin tenor mouthpiece

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    Default martin tenor mouthpiece

    I'm using a yamaha 5c looking for a good upgrade hows the martin on the mouthpieces is she picky?im looking at a dukoff or otto link does the link have enough resistance the martin is already free blowing I've never had metal whats the differences thanks

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    You are asking 3 different questions in one question.

    Start here:
    https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...s-the-benifits

    Then Pete has a good article here:

    https://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxop...piece-material

    You can definitely do more for your Martin that using a Yama 5 on her....it is robbing the horn of a lot of its overtones and width.

    What made you land on Dukoff or Link, if I may ask ?
    Go for the Old-Skool, homies. www.2ndending.com

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Get a Metalite M7
    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, Martin Handcraft alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Roland Aerophone AE10, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 5D, bunch of other instruments

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    i will definitely have to try one ....keep hearing great things from these so called student mouthpieces .my favor alto mouthpiece is a no branded reg mouthpiece but it plays better for me then meyer/protone/hollywood

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Ditto on trashcanning that Yamahahahaha. Stop wasting your time with that pos and get a Metalite like the man says. You can't go wrong with either an M7, M9 or M11 depending on how bright you want to sound. I usually always play the M7 to cut through the guitarchokers noise, but have switched to my M9 for the last two jams because they are mellower scenes at small pubs and it really is as close to perfection as I've experienced. I'm playing it with a Rico Select Jazz 4S and it is just so damn easy/free blowing and tonally great. Instant response anywhere from a whisper to a scream in a nanosecond. You really can't go wrong especially at the low price these gems go for. For 50 bucks you can get both and still spend a third of the price of the lowest priced boutiquey mpc. Also keep in mind that you can play them with a variety of reed types and brands from Plasticover and true synths like Legere and Forestone to cane reeds like Java, ZZ, RSJ, Rigotti Gold, etc. etc. I was playing them with 3.5 strength for the most part but have found lately that I do better with a 4. YMMV of course.

    BTW there is another thread about mpcs for Martin tenors that is much longer and has the experiences of many more people already if you want other suggestions. Also there is at least one (if not two) very long thread about the Metalites if you want to read opinions of others besides mine and MMM's. Use the search function to find them.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    thanks for the reply ...im looking at a link stm was reading the martin mouthpiece thread and sounds like thats what i need .im bidding now if i get it cheap enough definitely getting a metalite I'm playing 5c now so I'm thinking of getting a 6 would the jump to m7 be too much of a jump?

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Well, it's always best to try a mpc first if you can so you can see how it works for you. What you need to know is what the design of the mpc is and how it responds for the music you want to play. This takes experience although you can read advice here.

    The Yamahahaha and the Metalite are totally distinct designs.The Yamaha 5C is a fairly closed mpc tip, 0.070 tip opening, which is why it is recommended for beginners. If you haven't been playing very long but you have good wind support you could play something bigger without much effort but it will take a period of adjustment, depending on your chops. It also has a horseshoe chamber much like the Selmer S-80C which is what most beginners are advised to start on. These produce a sound that is very standard and middle of the road and supposedly easier to control by newbies. It's not a mpc that I or anyone I know of would play for jazz and definitely not what one wants and for rock/blues. Dull, boring and lacking in character and punch. Yeah, a good player can play anything with the right reed and probably sound like himself, but why handicap oneself if you can get something much better?

    The Metalites are high-baffle mpcs that produce a much brighter, louder, centrally projected tone ideal for rock, blues and other modern pop musics. It is also good for jazz, but not everyone on here like them. Mostly it seems to be a self-fulling prophecy thing because as the argument goes they are so cheap, how could they be any good? Guys on here like JL, MMM, me and others who have played them a lot know otherwise but again, it depends on what you are playing. I would not use one for mellow soft ballads for example, although I feel that in a pinch with the properly selected reed I could sound pretty damn good anyway.

    As to the sizes, the M7 has a 0.107 tip and a medium facing and the M9 a 0.115 tip and a long facing. This difference in tip size and facing has the effect of making the M9 less bright than the M7 and going up, the M11 at .125 is the mellowest of the three. So if you want to peel paint get the M7. This is because the reed tip is farther away from the high baffle due to the difference in facing curve. Conversely, the M5 with a 0.090 tip and a short facing is going to be the brightest of them all because the tip of the reed is closer to the high baffle than it is on the others.

    However, be aware that a short facing is more difficult to control than a medium or long facing so just thinking that the tip size is the whole show is mistaken. For example, back years ago I had a couple of Brilhart Ebolin tenor pieces. These were vintage ones and were fairly closed at around .070 each. However, one was with the short facing and the other with the medium facing. Guess which one was harder for my developing chops to control. I sold it off and kept the other much longer. Later I found a vintage Ebolin Streamline and it is one of the best jazz mpcs I had for a long time until I bought my Vintage Brilhart HR Personaline which is by far the greatest sounding of them all for straight ahead music. However, these cost 10X more than the Metalites, which give more bang for the buck than any other mpc I have had or tried.

    So what you choose really depends on what kind of sound you want to get. You should listen to sound clips of the various mpcs that are available on Youtube and sax blog sites like Steve Neff's excellent one. He has tests of dozens of mpcs and really knows his stuff. I recommend you check it out if you can't try them yourself.

    I hope this helps you some, but keep in mind that these are my opinions based upon my own experience and a lot of listening and reading as well. YMMV.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    ok ordered the rico metalites got one for my alto as well since there so cheap ...thanks for the suggestions ill come back in a few weeks with the results

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz Is All View Post
    (...) It also has a horseshoe chamber much like the Selmer S-80C which is what most beginners are advised to start on. These produce a sound that is very standard and middle of the road and supposedly easier to control by newbies. It's not a mpc that I or anyone I know of would play for jazz and definitely not what one wants and for rock/blues. Dull, boring and lacking in character and punch.(...)
    No, the S-80 mouthpieces don't have a horseshoe chamber -the Selmer Soloists have one, but the S-80's have a square chamber.

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Quote Originally Posted by Alain Gen View Post
    No, the S-80 mouthpieces don't have a horseshoe chamber -the Selmer Soloists have one, but the S-80's have a square chamber.
    I stand corrected on which model it was that has it. Thanks. Now I know why the S-80 mpcs are so square.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
    'We're going all the way 'till the wheels fall off and burn.
    Till the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies'.

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    metalite came in today ive have been playing it but not to impressed not free blowing too much air to get reed going any suggestions on reed brand I'm using vandoren java reds

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Metalites are not for everybody and can take some getting used to, but I'm surprised to hear one described as "not free blowing." That's not how I experience them, but that's why they say Your Mileage May Vary. Try a different reed, harder and softer, and see what you discover. I play Plasticover 2.5 reeds and some synthetics like Legere Signature. I might try a harder reed because lately it seems like the soft reed is closing up on me when I'm blowing hard. But I was using a baritone sax reed on tenor so maybe that was the issue. I switched to a Fibracell reed at the jam and the problem went away.
    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, Martin Handcraft alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Roland Aerophone AE10, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 5D, bunch of other instruments

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Quote Originally Posted by Oaksterdam View Post
    metalite came in today ive have been playing it but not to impressed not free blowing too much air to get reed going any suggestions on reed brand I'm using vandoren java reds
    Which one are you referring to, M5 or M7? And what hardness is the Java? Hard to advise you without that info. But as MMM says, these are free-blowing mpcs, so it could be either your reed or you chops. How long you been playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinMusicMan View Post
    Metalites are not for everybody and can take some getting used to, but I'm surprised to hear one described as "not free blowing." That's not how I experience them, but that's why they say Your Mileage May Vary. Try a different reed, harder and softer, and see what you discover. I play Plasticover 2.5 reeds and some synthetics like Legere Signature. I might try a harder reed because lately it seems like the soft reed is closing up on me when I'm blowing hard. But I was using a baritone sax reed on tenor so maybe that was the issue. I switched to a Fibracell reed at the jam and the problem went away.
    The last few times jamming I had the same clam problem Peter but it was with a 3.5. I know that I don't bite and it's just that when I get going and am into a solo and go for it I blow hard and it really is a bummer when it clams up and kills the note. I switched to PC 4 and RSJ 4S last week and the problem went away. The problem is that at home warming up I never blow that hard simply because of family and neighbor concerns so I have no way of knowing before playing live. The PC 4 is a baritone one however, which means the tip might be softer further up than on a tenor 4.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
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    Till the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies'.

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    i got the m5 my chops is the problem i just noticed the tip opening is .100 my yamaha 5c piece is .051 so even though there similar size the rico is almost twice the tip opening i will order a 3 but only see them available in graftonite i use size 2 javas filed I've just started again only about half a year but I've played for years before I've was living with pro artist for the last 7 years until now i was too shy since I'm not as good and kept my sax in the closet lol thanks for the help

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    An M5 with a #2 reed is closed and soft. I don't think they make an M3 Metalite. Given what you said about where you're at with playing time and embouchure etc., maybe the Metalite is not the best choice for you. I have a Graftonite and I think it's a very vanilla mouthpiece, but maybe that will work for you to develop your chops.

    You might try a slightly harder reed, like a 2.5. You need a little bit of stiffness/resistance to get the reed and mouthpiece to sound. I play a 2.5 reed on an M11 or M9, but I have a very loose embouchure and I've been playing a long time. I know how to work with a wide open tip, medium soft reed, and loose embouchure. Jazz Is All, just below me in this thread, likes a harder reed on his Metalite. You might try experimenting with different reeds to see what you learn.
    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, Martin Handcraft alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Roland Aerophone AE10, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 5D, bunch of other instruments

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    will give it a try it does sound good just hard to get reed going...have to get used to the bottom it has that lip at it feels like air is escaping thanks for the tips

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Oh wow, I didn't realize how closed that Yamahaha is. And I second what MMM says about the Graftonite. I had one years ago and it was kinda of blah if I recall correctly. Anyway I didn't keep it so it definitely wasn't what I wanted. A closed piece that does have great tone and plays great is a Vintage Brillhart Ebolin or Tonalin made during the Great Neck Period. Those are the ones with the large font serial numbers. Don't get the ones with the star because that means it's a short facing not a half size like in the Link numbering system. Even better are the Ebolin Streamline pieces with the serial number. All these pieces are generally fairly closed by today's standards but are incredible players. The only drawback is that the good ones are pricey, although well worth it. I have had several Brilharts and they were all good but my Vintage Streamline and HR Personaline are two of the best mpcs I have and have ever played. If you have the bucks and can find a good vintage one is good condition you can't go wrong. Just thought I'd mention this as an alternative suggestion to help you develop your chops but still get a great sounding and playing piece.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
    'We're going all the way 'till the wheels fall off and burn.
    Till the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies'.

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Quote Originally Posted by Oaksterdam View Post
    i got the m5 my chops is the problem i just noticed the tip opening is .100 my yamaha 5c piece is .051 so even though there similar size the rico is almost twice the tip opening i will order a 3 but only see them available in graftonite i use size 2 javas filed I've just started again only about half a year but I've played for years before I've was living with pro artist for the last 7 years until now i was too shy since I'm not as good and kept my sax in the closet lol thanks for the help
    Unless it has been refaced your 5C should be closer to .071 than .051. A piece that close on tenor would be difficult to get a good sound out of without a fairly hard reed and even then you wouldn't be able to put much air into it. From what I remember the 6C and 7C Yamaha tenor pieces are not a whole lot more open - I think the 6C is around .075 and the 7C around .080. Either would be a relatively modest tip opening increase form where (I believe) you presently are. The Metalite at .100 is a fairly large jump even from .071 but the design has a great deal more baffle which should keep the resistance from being too great. When making a change like going from a piece like a 4C to a Metalite most folks have trouble with with control in terms of sound and intonation as well as articulation and sometimes squeaks from the increased baffle profile.

    Are you using a new reed on the Metalite? Many folks get new mouthpieces and think they can just take the reed off their old piece that has been playing okay and use it on the new one. This rarely works well. I'd try a couple of new reeds and maybe some different strengths as MMM suggested to see what works best for you.

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Quote Originally Posted by Oaksterdam View Post
    will give it a try it does sound good just hard to get reed going...have to get used to the bottom it has that lip at it feels like air is escaping thanks for the tips
    I'm sorry but I don't quite understand what you're saying here. The bottom of the mouthpiece? The lip? If it feels like air is escaping, try adjusting the reed and the ligature. Does the ligature you're using fit the mouthpiece well? I found that most ligatures I had didn't fit the Metalite. I use a Rico H lig (inexpensive, but the metal coating is corroding).
    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, Martin Handcraft alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Roland Aerophone AE10, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 5D, bunch of other instruments

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    Default Re: martin tenor mouthpiece

    Do you know how to do a pop test on the mpc when the reed is in position and the lig tightened? Also where are you placing the tip of the reed? Are you placing it below the mpc tip with some tip showing, right at the tip with no tip showing or slightly above the tip? All three of these positions are possible depending on the mpc, your chops, the hardness or softness of the reed vis a vis the tip opening, so you need to try different fine adjustments of that if you are having problems. You'd be surprised at how much of a difference a fraction of a mm one way or the other can make. This is seat of the pants fine tuning and if you've never done it before, now is the time to learn. Sometimes when you have a buzz or a squeak or an aerated sound all you need to do is readjust the reed tip position and make sure that the reed is centered exactly on the table too.
    'How far y'all going?' Ruby asked us with a sigh.
    'We're going all the way 'till the wheels fall off and burn.
    Till the sun peels the paint and the seat covers fade and the water moccasin dies'.

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