Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum - Page 6

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  1. #101
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    it’s all TV (re-runs)

    Grumpy Old Men meets the Last of the Summer (or Winter) w(h)ine

    I can see lots of people talking economy on the Selmer thread.


    Should I ask what are their qualifications? Some are talking nonsense would I worry that that will have a pernicious effect on possible investors among us following wrong advise?

    Just Sayin'
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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  3. #102
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Bottom line is I see SOTW like a big party. You go in and know a few people but there are maybe a hundred more you don't know. You walk around and talk to people. You meet all sorts of people and sooner or later you run into someone who gives you advice, or suggests something, or seems like they are trying to sell you something. As adults we have to listen and converse with these people and decipher what is good, what is bad and what is total BS. It's the same with this forum. How many times have we seen a thread that starts "Hey guys, I'm having trouble with altissimo. Any suggestions?" Is it really that hard to differentiate between:

    1. You have to practice this........and this is how to do it........It's will take time and practice but you can do it.

    or

    2. Altissimo is easy just bite really hard so your lip hurts

    or

    3. All you need is a new mouthpiece. I could never get altissimo on my Yamaha 4C and then I got a mint condition Guardala on ebay and now I can play the whole Omnibook 3 octaves up with no problems. I even almost made All State band!

    Can we not negotiate these posts the same as we mill around the party and talk to people. There is no reason to get frustrated or mad. You just think "That guy has no idea what he's talking about" and move on..........

  4. #103
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Steve, you present an excellent point and it does work like that mostly. I just wonder how many times the correct answer was given and then beaten down by amateurs to present a new correct answer. In your scenario, twenty posters say bite down really hard and then some dude saying overtones is beaten up by said twenty posters and quits the forum. This is a hypothetical situation, but I have seen this happen here sadly.
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  5. #104
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Regarding Keith's request, while he says he wishes there was a designation for levels, his desire is to be able to pinpoint the highest level when needed. So according to that logic, he doesn't need beginning, intermediate, advanced, hobbyist, etc. He just needs too professional, everyone else. Tell me if I am wrong Keith.
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  6. #105
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    there is no way to prevent people going for any number of reason.

    Also, I have seen contradictory advise been given by different and equally qualified pro’s.

    I have seen seemingly equally qualified pro’s squabbling about their different interpretation of this that and the other.

    I wonder if they all think that the other’s stripes (the people in the arguments) count as much as their own.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  7. #106
    Administrator Pete Thomas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by turf3 View Post

    What punishment will be meted out to those who (like me sometimes) make the mistake of calling D-F-A-C in the key of C major the II min 7 instead of the ii7?
    I believe no punishment should be meted out at all as I think it is correct (and better) to say II min 7. The small roman numerals with no minor descriptor is fine if you need to stick to the traditional classical harmony, but IImin7 is more useful in pop and jazz use, is less likely to be misinterpreted if handwritten or if you have bad eyesight.

    I may be wrong but I think there has been a gradual shift towards there being more misinformation here, a higher percentage maybe of people who really should not be giving the kind of advice they feel qualified to give. I've noticed some very fine experts have left the forum possibly for this very reason, or is it just because they have left that the percentage of less qualified advice gets published?

    More and more I see people saying:

    1. "I have done some research and have narrowed my search down to a ..." and you just know they beoeive everything they read because it's on the internet, not realising just how many shills could be writing those so-called reviews


    2 "I read that you should do this..." and again, it's on the internet so it becomes the truth, and then you get the blind leading the blind as that piece of fake news gets proliferated.

    3. "You don' t want to do it like that, you want to do it like this..." and these people want everyone else to do things their way, as if they need validation, lack of self confidence maybe. They don't realise there is more than one way to skin a cat (there is actually two three quarters), or that there are different types of people. I noticed this in a recent thread about preparing students psychologically. There were almost two distinct camps of people who say it's a good idaea and those who say it's all tosh. But surely, there are those people who are helped by psychological prep, and those who are better off without it.
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  8. #107
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Keith's original post, although perhaps written in haste, out of momentary frustration, is in black and white and speaks perfectly well for itself.

    There have been more than enough squabbles between professionals. Not so long ago, one erupted over a trivial bit of sarcasm, resulting in both participants leaving the forum (one, after a definitive YAGE, to return later with items for sale). No amateurs or weekend warriors involved there. Neither left because of his technical/theoretical advice being 'pounded down.'

    Pete's observation is a point well made--the approach here tends to be bifurcated into a mutual "I'm right, you're wrong" with little room for nuance or recognition of human variability. But that is how the world in general has become, especially our political world, so it's no wonder that a public forum would follow suit. But to use Steve's metaphor, if you walk out on the party because you don't like some of what you hear, you're just abandoning the field to the uninformed or the ill-informed, and abandoning the people that need you're experience-based knowledge and advice the most. Meantime, nothing stops anyone from putting his/her perceived level on the side bar, and the Professional label is easiest of all to determine and the least subjective, as the word is self-defining.

  9. #108
    Administrator Pete Thomas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by FredCDobbs View Post
    But to use Steve's metaphor, if you walk out on the party because you don't like some of what you hear, you're just abandoning the field to the uninformed or the ill-informed, and abandoning the people that need you're experience-based knowledge and advice the most. Meantime, nothing stops anyone from putting his/her perceived level on the side bar, and the Professional label is easiest of all to determine and the least subjective, as the word is self-defining.
    There's a bit of a difference though. At a party, you know people are just giving an opinion. And at a party people don't say "IMHO". On a forum people often talk as if they are stating an objective truth (when perhaps they should interject with IMHO) and this is when the issue arises of what I said earlier, e.g. "oh, but I read that you have to wobble your diaphagm to get vibrato...."

    No. You aren't "supposed to". That may work for the person that said it (who could be a world champion diaphragm wobbler) but they ought to have said (IMHO) "This works for me, why don't you try it but don't discount what others are also suggesting, because maybe what they say could work better for you."
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  10. #109

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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by FredCDobbs View Post
    Meantime, nothing stops anyone from putting his/her perceived level on the side bar, and the Professional label is easiest of all to determine and the least subjective, as the word is self-defining.
    I made this point way back in post #18, but the OP seemed to ignore it. If you want to list your music degree or other professional credential in your sig or elsewhere in every post, go right ahead and do it. Absolutely no action needs to be taken by the forum to permit this.

    The debate has persisted because, to put it bluntly, the real objective is to tell the posters deemed unqualified to shut up rather than to tell the pros to wear their status proudly.

  11. #110
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Thomas View Post
    There's a bit of a difference though. At a party, you know people are just giving an opinion. And at a party people don't say "IMHO". On a forum people often talk as if they are stating an objective truth (when perhaps they should interject with IMHO) and this is when the issue arises of what I said earlier, e.g. "oh, but I read that you have to wobble your diaphagm to get vibrato...."

    No. You aren't "supposed to". That may work for the person that said it (who could be a world champion diaphragm wobbler) but they ought to have said (IMHO) "This works for me, why don't you try it but don't discount what others are also suggesting, because maybe what they say could work better for you."
    There are people that will attack you even if you phrase it that way, as someone here did not long ago to you, Pete. And yet, you're still here.

    The difference is, at a party, especially between men, people will often hold their tongue or exercise a modicum of courtesy, because no matter how civilized we think we are, awareness of potential violence lies not too far below the subconscious (IMHO). Mix some alcohol in, and it comes closer to the surface.

  12. #111
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    In my experience here no opinion is ever been humble and even less so when people state that, exactly like when people write “ with due respect” which generally means, without.

    which leads me to this

    Quote Originally Posted by FredCDobbs View Post
    There have been more than enough squabbles between professionals. Not so long ago, one erupted over a trivial bit of sarcasm, resulting in both participants leaving the forum (one, after a definitive YAGE, to return later with items for sale). No amateurs or weekend warriors involved there. Neither left because of his technical/theoretical advice being 'pounded down.'
    exactly, professional performer’s egos have been featuring prominently in many “ discussions”...

    with due respect , I am not taking any humility lessons and especially from this who have been doing that kind of thing.

    In this like with everything else the best way to hide yourself is behind a pointed finger
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  13. #112
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Sorry to take a whack at a horse that seems to have recently died, but there's a post in the Repair/Maintenance/Modification section regarding the problem of condensation building up in the horn that stands the whole concept of this thread on its head.

  14. #113
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Complete honesty with oneself and others is the only way to true and continued progress.
    Anything less is just running in circles and perpetual chasing of one's own tail.

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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptykon View Post
    Complete honesty with oneself and others is the only way to true and continued progress.
    Anything less is just running in circles and perpetual chasing of one's own tail.
    I agree, and I'm not criticizing the person asking the condensation question. It was a good and legitimate question, asked honestly and in all candor. I'm glad it was asked and I hope the op solves his or her problem. There were some interesting replies. My answer, was, basically, to ignore it and wipe you hands off periodically. But it was a question from an experienced professional that would have been expected from a beginner, and that could be validly responded to by a beginner----the very opposite of the theme running through this thread.

  16. #115
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by FredCDobbs View Post
    I agree, and I'm not criticizing the person asking the condensation question. It was a good and legitimate question, asked honestly and in all candor. I'm glad it was asked and I hope the op solves his or her problem. There were some interesting replies. My answer, was, basically, to ignore it and wipe you hands off periodically. But it was a question from an experienced professional that would have been expected from a beginner, and that could be validly responded to by a beginner----the very opposite of the theme running through this thread.
    Hi Fred, I was talking about the OP and this thread, sorry for the confusion.

    Enjoyed your posts on this thread. Milandro's, also(as always) and others .

  17. #116
    Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2009 Keith Ridenhour's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    I think Steves analogy is the best one. Just take everything with a grain of salt and don't expect much. We all have some connection to playing a sax if its a masters degree and or years of performing or we just bought one last tuesday. I think and have hoped for years that when I try to help someone I can save them time and help them get better faster. That is always my goal. I have some education but I still take weekly lessons on sax and flute and practice to do new things and look on various sources for new info /ideas. So I can see where I'm not your typical poster. If I have a question that needs help I should look myself at people that might have the answer and PM them rather than open it up to the world. I have no problem doing that. Makes sense to me. K
    Bachelor of Music Education UMSL , two years at Berklee College of Music
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  18. #117
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Ridenhour View Post
    I have some education but I still take weekly lessons on sax and flute and practice to do new things and look on various sources for new info /ideas. So I can see where I'm not your typical poster.
    Ok.. what; to you, is the typical poster ?

  19. #118
    Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2009 Keith Ridenhour's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptykon View Post
    Ok.. what; to you, is the typical poster ?
    There is no such animal. All I meant is that I know very few people my age (63) who had a degree in Music but didn't do music for a living, now in retirement playing in many bands, recording, practicing a couple of hours a day and taking lessons from 2 and sometimes 3 teachers. Everybody is different. I hope you don't take offense by any of this. Its not intended that way. I don't put down anyone who tries to play this instrument for personal expression or fun or a living. I give my real name, my real credentials , and you can hear me in many many situations, so I think I'm as transparent as possible. Thats just me and the way I roll. To each his own. Lets all drop this and get back to the real fun of practicing , playing, performing K
    Bachelor of Music Education UMSL , two years at Berklee College of Music
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  20. #119
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Ridenhour View Post
    There is no such animal. All I meant is that I know very few people my age (63) who had a degree in Music but didn't do music for a living, now in retirement playing in many bands, recording, practicing a couple of hours a day and taking lessons from 2 and sometimes 3 teachers. Everybody is different. I hope you don't take offense by any of this. Its not intended that way. I don't put down anyone who tries to play this instrument for personal expression or fun or a living. I give my real name, my real credentials , and you can hear me in many many situations, so I think I'm as transparent as possible. Thats just me and the way I roll. To each his own. Lets all drop this and get back to the real fun of practicing , playing, performing K
    Sounds good, thanks Keith !

  21. #120
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    Default Re: Pet Peeve of Mine about the forum

    I just had a very specific brass jazz articulation question. I have many friends I could have asked but I googled for the answer assuming it might be universal. I found myself on a trumpet forum reading multiple pages of different opinions. This was until finally someone responded with their reasoning, professional experience, and degrees. I was frustrated and confused for pages.
    I imagine this is how people feel when they read our forum after a google search.

    I had to find this thread after the experience.
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