Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Chicago South Suburbs
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    I own a YAS82Z laquered horn but I have always loved the look of a silver horn and was seriously thinking of getting the silver version of it. To keep my current horn looking good I just wipe it down. Is the care of a Modern silver plated horn any different and how long does it stay looking pretty?

  2. Remove Advertisements
    SaxOnTheWeb.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Technician
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    20,166
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    lot depends on the environment. Silver will tarnish and if left out of the case or not wiped down, it will look shoddy. To really keep it looking good, it needs to be disassembled.

  4. #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    3,710
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    I've never owned any silver-plated instruments except a cheap silver student flute, but removing tarnish is a terrible pain! It's an order of magnitude more work than just wiping off & lightly buffing a lacquered instrument. The best approach is to prevent the tarnishing in the first place if possible. There are special tarnish-impeding cloths that you can buy and use to shield the horn in its case.

    On the other hand, if you like the gray look and grimy feel of tarnished silver, you're all set.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    SaxOnTheWeb.net
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2015-2016
    Dr G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    27,797
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    Some modern horns have clear coat over the silver - I don't know if Yamahas are among them.

    On the other hand, my silver plate Borgani has no clear coat, but the finish requires very little care considering how great it looks and plays.
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

    As a Veteran for Peace, I am already against the next war.

  7. #5
    Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Forum Contributor 2010-2017 maddenma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park Slope, Brooklyn, NY, USA, Earth, Orion's Arm, Milky Way, Virgo Super Cluster, Known Universe
    Posts
    8,502
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    Weird duplicate post.
    1926 Buescher Model 122 True Tone Series III Gold Plated Soprano
    1926 Buescher Model 120 True Tone Series III Silver Plated Straight Alto

    1936 Buescher Model 139 Custom Built Bare Brass Baritone
    1938 Buescher Model 127 Aristocrat (Art Deco) Tenor

    1938 Buescher Model 139 Aristocrat Gold Plated Baritone (some day)
    1947 Buescher Model B-11 400 (Top Hat & Cane) Bare Brass Tenor
    1949 Buescher Model B-7 400 (Top Hat & Cane) Silver Plated Alto
    1949 Buescher Model 140 Aristocrat (Big B) Alto
    1949 Buescher Model 156 Aristocrat (Big B) Gold Plated Tenor
    1970-something Yamaha Model YBS-61 Baritone
    2015 Vibrato A1S III Plastic Alto

    Morgan, Ishimori, Strathon, and Theo Wanna Mouthpieces.





    Nothing works so well in gathering information as a display of ignorance. I learn something new every day.


  8. #6
    Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Forum Contributor 2010-2017 maddenma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park Slope, Brooklyn, NY, USA, Earth, Orion's Arm, Milky Way, Virgo Super Cluster, Known Universe
    Posts
    8,502
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    As I recall, the Yamaha will have a clear lacquer coating over the plating. It's no different than caring for a lacquer horn in that regard.
    1926 Buescher Model 122 True Tone Series III Gold Plated Soprano
    1926 Buescher Model 120 True Tone Series III Silver Plated Straight Alto

    1936 Buescher Model 139 Custom Built Bare Brass Baritone
    1938 Buescher Model 127 Aristocrat (Art Deco) Tenor

    1938 Buescher Model 139 Aristocrat Gold Plated Baritone (some day)
    1947 Buescher Model B-11 400 (Top Hat & Cane) Bare Brass Tenor
    1949 Buescher Model B-7 400 (Top Hat & Cane) Silver Plated Alto
    1949 Buescher Model 140 Aristocrat (Big B) Alto
    1949 Buescher Model 156 Aristocrat (Big B) Gold Plated Tenor
    1970-something Yamaha Model YBS-61 Baritone
    2015 Vibrato A1S III Plastic Alto

    Morgan, Ishimori, Strathon, and Theo Wanna Mouthpieces.





    Nothing works so well in gathering information as a display of ignorance. I learn something new every day.


  9. #7

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    3,710
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    Quote Originally Posted by maddenma View Post
    As I recall, the Yamaha will have a clear lacquer coating over the plating.
    Not according to this information directly from Yamaha owners (though the thread is rather old): https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...r-Their-Plated

  10. #8
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    31,994
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    Many Yamaha owners in several threads say their silver plated saxophones are not lacquered over.

    Lacquering over of course is only a temporary solution at best.

    As lacquer wears (and it wears on silver over lacquered just as much as it wears lacquered brass) it would wear with an irregular pattern on the various contact surfaces of the silverplate horn and it would leave an exposed silver surface and that will tarnish (in various degrees of tarnish).

    My experience with this is the solid silver neck of my Super 20, which is also lacquered over. By the way some Super 20 are silver with gold tinted lacquer over! ( always check inside the neck ).

    Not all Silver plate is born equal and some tarnish way more than others .
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  11. #9

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,147
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    My recommendation for silver plate that is not lacquered over, is to leave it alone. The grey tarnish that forms down underneath the keywork adds a patina and appearance of depth that manufacturers are trying to duplicate on their brass finish horns with their multi-tone lacquer and brushed finishes - you can have it for free. Think of the patina of an old Louis Lot flute.

    The areas where you touch the horn will remain bright.

  12. #10
    Distinguished SOTW Member buddy lee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3,132
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    I'll never forget seeing a silver Yamaha 62 at my local Sam Ash up on the wall and it was covered in that purple/black oil slick looking tarnish...
    "Can't never could."

  13. #11
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    31,994
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    ...which probably cleans up beautifully

    this is the way it was




    this after a very quick clean

    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  14. #12
    Distinguished SOTW Member. Tzadik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Friuli, Italy
    Posts
    1,622
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    Not all "silver finish" are exactly the same.

    Some plating are thinner, some other are thicker. Some are fully silverplated (inside the body too), some other are plated just outside.
    Even the process can be pretty different.

    You don't need to drive crazy to keep in good aesthetical shape a silver plated instrument... just a soft cloth to clean instrument from the moisture you produce when you play.

    Too much or too often polishing is not healty.
    I use a very light polish on my tenor (silver plated... inside and outside) but these days... probably twice a year. But I always spends 40/50 seconds to clean the instrument after I've played.
    Most often I use some alcohol to clean the dirt between the toneholes and since the instrument has a very "resistant" plating (in terms of oxidation) most of the dirt goes away just with the alcohol.

    I use an ear stick impregnated with CRC on the springs and on some joints.

  15. #13
    SOTW Columnist
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    JL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    19,948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    It likely does vary depending on the quality of the plating and the local environment. I have two silver plated Buescher tenors, one with the original matte finish plating and one with an Anderson's re-plate of shiny burnished silver finish. I've had the replated one for about 10 years and the other for about 8 years. Both horns still look great with very little tarnish. If I'm playing the horn regularly, I wipe it down with a damp cloth followed by a dry cloth about once a week. Maybe once or twice a year I use a silver polishing cloth. That's all it seems to take to keep the horns looking great. I live on the northern CA coast. Maybe it would be a different story if I lived next to an industrial factory.

    In any case, I don't find it more bothersome to take care of the silver plated horns than a lacquered horn and the silver plate far outlasts lacquer. My Buescher tenor with the original plate is a pre-war horn, 70+ years old, and the plating is all there and looks fine. If it had original lac, I'm sure most of that lac would be gone.

  16. #14
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2015-2016
    Dr G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    27,797
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    I, too, do an annual cleaning - lacquer or silver plate. I tear down the horn on the dining table, clean and lube as I reassemble.

    Here's my idea of shiny - this is with Hagerty Silver Polish that comes as a creme. Matt tells me it has an oil in it that acts as a preservative but dulls the lustre.





    And here's how shiny a horn can get if Matt Stohrer has it on his bench. Matt uses the spray form that does not have oil in it - SHINY! And, fwiw, it is still looking great with minimal care/cleaning.





    Silver bells, silver bells...
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

    As a Veteran for Peace, I am already against the next war.

  17. #15

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    3,710
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    Quote Originally Posted by JL View Post
    In any case, I don't find it more bothersome to take care of the silver plated horns than a lacquered horn and the silver plate far outlasts lacquer. My Buescher tenor with the original plate is a pre-war horn, 70+ years old, and the plating is all there and looks fine. If it had original lac, I'm sure most of that lac would be gone.
    Silver plate can far outlast old-time lacquer, which was weak and prone to disintegration. Most contemporary lacquers seem to be much more durable. They may not outlast really good plating, but they can endure for many decades with little noticeable wear.

  18. #16
    Distinguished SOTW Member artstove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,421
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    My tech gave me some 3M anti-tarnish strips to put in my case. Basically look like some black pieces of paper. I'm not getting significant tarnish on my two silver horns, but I don't know if it is because of the strips or not.

  19. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Colonial Beach, Va.
    Posts
    3,449
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    I typically have to wipe my keyboard down every time I see that Borg, Doc!
    I've got a cheapo silver plate Jupiter that looks really good when it's clean but I don't have the nerve to take it apart!

  20. #18

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    59
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    Quote Originally Posted by maddenma View Post
    As I recall, the Yamaha will have a clear lacquer coating over the plating. It's no different than caring for a lacquer horn in that regard.
    yamaha donot have lacquer over silverplate.

  21. #19
    Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    15,792
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    Quote Originally Posted by JL View Post
    It likely does vary depending on the quality of the plating and the local environment. ....
    The environment has a huge effect on how silver tarnishes, especially when sulphur contaminants come into the equation.

    And sulphur contaminants in the air can come from onions and garlic, or eggs, and possibly even in the sweat of people who eat a lot of these. It is also in industrial smoke, vehicle exhausts, wool carpet, flatus, natural rubber, combustion products from motor vehicles and gas stoves, etc, etc. Bacteria, including those in an unhealthy mouth, can give off smelly sulphur compounds. Keep your silver plating away from your helitosis!

    Silver tarnishes a lot faster in my workroom that the rest of the house, presumably just because I have a Bunsen burner on most of the time, burning liquefied petroleum gas which presumably has sulphur traces in it.

    In Rotorua, New Zealand, where there is a lot of geothermal activity, belching sulphur dioxide, sulphur trioxide and hydrogen sulphide into the air, a silver plated instrument can go entirely black in weeks. Bathe in some pools and a silver ring will be black in minutes.
    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ge...w=2048&bih=940
    Yes, there is a town of 70,000 people very close to all this! (Tourism plug! Haha. But don't bring your silver sax.)
    Contentment is not the fulfilment of what you want, but the realisation of how much you already have.

  22. #20
    SOTW Columnist
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    JL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    19,948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Silver Plating care Versus Laquer Care

    Good point Gordon. If you live in the shadow of an active volcano, or in a highly industrial area, silver plating is probably not a good idea. I guess I'm lucky where I live, because the silver plating on my horns doesn't seem to tarnish very much. A little, but not so much that it's a problem.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •