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Otto Link E.B. baffle. Is this one?

8K views 26 replies 8 participants last post by  Tzadik 
#1 ·
Otto Link E.B. baffle. Is this one an EB or a modern one?

Hi,
I'd like to get more info about this Otto Link Tone Edge for tenor piece.

Is this an Early Babbitt one? I added some pics of the baffle.



I don't play usually hard rubber on tenor, so I am not an expert of these.
Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
An EB hard rubber Link should (at least) have a low beak and a steep drop between the top and the beak.
This also happens with EB Metal Links (other than different engravings/stampings).

Otherwise... it's not an Early Babbitt.
The baffle varies a lot from a Link to another Link... and the shape of the baffle is not indicative of what kind of Otto Link actually is.
Not every EB is a bright/loud hr Link.

Most hard rubber Links which are for sale in Italy as "Early Babbitt"... actually they are not real Early Babbitt: childish way to gain more money when you need to selling a modern Link.
Just pay attention to all the details. There are several Early Babbitt's... the blanks were different but every EB blank had the "steep drop" at the end of the beak towards the top of the mouthpiece.

Genuine Early Babbitt Otto Link (this one is the type 3 among the different EB's):


Regular Modern/80's/90's/2000's/2010's Link:
 
#7 ·
For what it's worth, there is no such thing as an "Early Babbitt" mouthpiece. This is a term made up by an online dealer back in the early 2000's to denote Florida era blanks that were finished in Indiana by JJ Babbitt. Otto Link has only ever had one version of their rubber mouthpiece since the 1950's and it's called a Tone Edge. Not everyone will agree with me, but the core used in their blanks is way more of an indicator than the shell of the mouthpiece. Keep in mind it's possible to put a different shell on different or identical cores.

The piece in the picture has a baffle that is about 1/2 an inch long and flat with no divet behind it, nor is it that round ill-defined lump behind the tip that started appearing in the 1980's. Is there a number inside the chamber?

This piece looks identical to a piece I have that was purchased by the original owner from Otto Link when they were at 21 S. W. FIFTH STREET, Pompano Beach. Straight signature as well.
 
#9 ·
Like "Slant Signature", also "Early Babbitt" doesn't refer to a specific model... but to a period of time.

Can you imagine moving from Pompano Beach to Elkhart, Indiana?
I think many workers fell into depression... and that's why Links start to suck after Otto Link production moved to Indiana.


In that period the blanks used (for both metal and hard rubber piece) had specific shapes... which help to distinguish them.

There are at least three types of Early Babbitt hard rubber Otto Link (but four are known...).

This doesn't mean that all the EB/Slant Signature/Modern Links play the same... some play better than others: in my personal experience, vintage Links play "more", they give you "more of everything".
 
#11 ·
It may not be an “Early Babbitt” but that’s the baffle shape I look for. If you don’t want it and it’s a 6 or 6*, I’d buy it!
I’ve played Tone Edges off and on for a long time and you can find ones from almost every period that have that baffle shape.
Even some of the New Vintage Slant models have it.
 
#14 ·
A lot of people get this sort of thing wrong in my opinion. If you look at some guides out there, you would think that all "straight signature" Tone Edge pieces with the huge clamshell baffle are "Babbitt era" pieces and that's just not right. Many of these were made in Florida and this is where the nomenclature becomes inadequate. The piece in the picture looks like it also has the small USA on the shank. After that you have straight sigs that have large USA and the heavy horizontal milling marks but again, and some of them were finished in Elkhart. The piece in your photo looks like the Florida small USA that I have here done by TK. It has that crazy good baffle that makes these mouthpieces really sing.
 
#20 ·
These need to be identified by interior shapes. The exterior does not always correlate to the desirable core and baffle shape.

A measurement of the the drop distance from the bottom of the window to the floor there is a decent way to find the ones with the desirebale core. The closer to .580” it is the better (if my memory is correct). Babbitt made ones are more like .600-.620”. They loose focus.
 
#21 ·
This 6* is an "EB." 7* not so much.

There's so much info out there about what makes these pieces special. It's the baffle and floor. The beak can vary quite a bit. In fact, I have owned pieces with the steam beak drop, and little to no baffle. They also didn't have a mold number, but had a high floor.

Tzadik's piece looks more like the tenor madness EB with a longer shank, but I've only seen a few of those.

To speak to Sebastians comment, the core geometry is the most important thing about how these pieces may play. If you haven't gotten enough info about this piece from people who have seen way too many by now then you should put it in the marketplace and see what happens. If you don't intend to play it then you may as well get what you can for it. I was watching an older florida tone edge recently that was clearly being sold by someone who may not know (or knows quite well) what it is worth that sold for close to $600. As illusive as this subject can be there are just as many people who know what to look for.
 
#27 ·
To speak to Sebastians comment, the core geometry is the most important thing about how these pieces may play.
It's all about that.
I've seen many modern Link with a huge clamshell baffle (longer and higher than most EB/Slant I've seen)... but the "chamber offset" was completely off and over all... at end of the windows, the drop on the chamber was so deep that the mouthpieces simply had that kind of "hollow" sound quality, which is not something you have on an average vintage Link.

As I said... in the years I've detected three external shapes for the EB Link (the one I posted was the one with the longest shank)... but there are one also with a "normal" Shank but a shorter beak.
... But all have the "beak drop" (near the top of the mouthpiece).

JJ Babbitt (as Otto Link in the old factory in Florida) makes the mouthpiece blanks in house. So vulcanization process was (and still is) done in house.
The starting materials (natural rubber, plastic powder, sulfur and heat) are always the same...
On old Links the vulcanization process (... in oven) was made more times/cycles so this is why the old hard rubber was higher grade: more stiff, more resistant and easier to work on, smelly once polished.
 
#24 ·
There are differences between FL Tone Edges. Mostly the amount of finishing work. Florida era pieces tend to play better, but I have played unaltered "EB" pieces that outplay them. Also the material is something people tend to leave out of the equation. Older rubber tends to hold form better than the more compounded plastic formula. Not to mention the latter EB's can actually melt in high temperatures. This was the case for Joshua Redman one year he came back from a tour in Italy complaining about his piece to Eric Drake (his MP and horn technician) saying that it was seizing up. Eric said his piece had gone from a 7* to a 6.

All this is to say that I believe the late Florida/very early Babbitts tend to fetch the highest value. Especially in tip sizes >6. However, if you intend to keep the piece you have because it plays well then congrats! Those are cool pieces too. Looks like a nicely finished EB on the tail end of the true life of the Tone Edge. RIP
 
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