Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 37
  1. #1
    SOTW Interviews/Editor
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2008-17

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Hamilton Ontario Canada
    Posts
    1,093
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    David Byrne argues: "The boom in digital streaming may generate profits for record labels and free content for consumers, but it spells disaster for today's artists across the creative industries "

    "...The amounts these services pay per stream is miniscule – their idea being that if enough people use the service those tiny grains of sand will pile up. Domination and ubiquity are therefore to be encouraged. We should readjust our values because in the web-based world we are told that monopoly is good for us. The major record labels usually siphon off most of this income, and then they dribble about 15-20% of what's left down to their artists. Indie labels are often a lot fairer – sometimes sharing the income 50/50. Damon Krukowski (Galaxie 500, Damon & Naomi) has published abysmal data on payouts from Pandora and Spotify for his song "Tugboat" and Lowery even wrote a piece entitled "My Song Got Played on Pandora 1 Million Times and All I Got Was $16.89, Less Than What I Make from a Single T-shirt Sale!" For a band of four people that makes a 15% royalty from Spotify streams, it would take 236,549,020 streams for each person to earn a minimum wage of $15,080 (£9,435) a year. For perspective, Daft Punk's song of the summer, "Get Lucky", reached 104,760,000 Spotify streams by the end of August: the two Daft Punk guys stand to make somewhere around $13,000 each. Not bad, but remember this is just one song from a lengthy recording that took a lot of time and money to develop. That won't pay their bills if it's their principal source of income. And what happens to the bands who don't have massive international summer hits?..."

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...P=share_btn_fb
    Pressure Proof- Mental Training For Competition, Performance
    http://pressureproof.virb.com/


    SOTW's Blues, R&B, Rock n' Roll Teaching Resource
    http://www.saxontheweb.net/Rock_n_Roll/

    Anxiety, Emotions and Performing Well
    http://www.saxontheweb.net/Resources...-NSharpe1.html

    SOTW Supports The New Orleans Musicians' Relief Fund
    "These 16 great MP3s celebrate the rich, vibrant, musical heritage of The City Lights - New Orleans."
    http://www.nomrf.org/saxontheweb.html

  2. Remove Advertisements
    SaxOnTheWeb.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    SOTW Columnist
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    JL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    19,667
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Sharpe View Post
    And what happens to the bands who don't have massive international summer hits?..."
    They won't make a dime. It's a sad situation where the lowest common denominator rules and only glitzy, over-produced, hyped-up and highly-marketed mass popular media products can achieve any level of financial success.

  4. #3
    MLucky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    805
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    It's a really disturbing situation, and it goes well beyond the recording industry.

    [climbs onto soapbox]

    New technologies are changing the rules in so many different businesses, and the result is almost always: a) more convenience for consumers, b) fewer jobs and less money for workers, and c) enormous profits for those who control the technology and who have the resources to influence government to write the rules in their favor.

    When music went from vinyl to CD, the recording industry took the opportunity to reduce the percentage of gross sales that went to musicians and songwriters. When the techies (Apple, mainly) took it from physical CDs to downloads, the musician's cut got reduced again. When record companies struck their deals with streaming services, the percentage paid to musicians got reduced yet again, and now it's miniscule.

    Part of the reason is the way intellectual property laws work for online businesses. Silicon Valley has prevailed upon Congress to make sure that if someone uploads your recording to a website and makes your intellectual available for theft, the website operator is not liable, even if your song (ie, property) is downloaded (ie, stolen) thousands of times. (It's up to you, the property owner, to make the website operator, aware that someone uploaded your copyrighted material, and then their only obligation is to take it down within a "reasonable" period of time. If it gets uploaded again, you have to do it again. And again.) So music is available for free from Youtube and countless other websites, and consumers have learned there's no reason to actually buy music, and we now have the proliferation of services that "rent" access and pay musicians so little it's hardly worth mentioning.

    Similar things are going in, say, the grocery business, which Amazon is set to take over, the taxi business, which Uber and Lyft etc have ruined, the hotel business, which is being taken over by AirBnB. A few people are making huge amounts of money, and many others are losing their livelihoods.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    SaxOnTheWeb.net
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    KeithL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    2,611
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Yup, everything seems to be turning into a racket or some sort of legalized ponzi scheme. For the first 30+ years of the digital/technical revolution nobody ever thought about any of the downsides to technologies. We allowed (and by and large still do) the tech companies to market and sell us solely on the neat-o factor and advantages of these technologies. It's only relatively recently that pundits are asking more questions about who is paying the price for these technologies and what the downsides or costs are. Unfortunately "average Joe" for the most part hasn't taken notice yet. Musicians and artists are just "the canary in the coal mine" with the proliferation and increased capability of expert systems, technology, as MLucky pointed out, will be showing up to take a lot of folks livelihoods over the next couple of decades.

  7. #5

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    676
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    If it's any consolation, we will all become extinct in a few decades. Hey, no worries.

  8. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Laguna Beach Ca
    Posts
    3,319
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Money, jobs etc are created to keep an obsolete system going.
    Read Buckminster Fuller and remember Rodenberry's vision of Star Trek.

  9. #7
    Bubba06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cincinnati/Louisville
    Posts
    1,148
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Here's a pretty interesting comparison of internet services...
    https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/201...ated-for-2017/

    -Bubba-

  10. #8
    Forum Contributor 2013 graphicguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    494
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    it's a real shame its so hard for talented musicians to make a living... so much free streaming content. and people are more housebound, less likely to go pay for live events than decades ago. probably the best revenue stream is teaching vs performing... young people listen to manufactured pop bs vs quality jazz
    Sax player

  11. #9
    Mouthpiece Refacer Extraordinaire and Forum Contributor 2007-2010 EZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,383
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    So if someone is a fan of a particular artist and wants to ensure their livelihood as a musician, what are they to do if the artist only receives a mere fraction of the proceeds?
    Please visit EZmpc.com and follow me on Facebook!
    “Opinions are like embouchures.” - EZ
    "The rumors of my forever abandoning mouthpiece refacing are greatly exaggerated." - EZ

  12. #10
    Forum Contributor 2017
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Quote Originally Posted by EZ View Post
    So if someone is a fan of a particular artist and wants to ensure their livelihood as a musician, what are they to do if the artist only receives a mere fraction of the proceeds?
    Go to their live shows?

  13. #11
    Mouthpiece Refacer Extraordinaire and Forum Contributor 2007-2010 EZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,383
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Quote Originally Posted by jambsspiii View Post
    Go to their live shows?

    Perhaps it is too simplistic an observation, but does seem like things have flip-flopped... performances used to be promotions for album sales. Now distribution of the album is promotion for concerts.
    Please visit EZmpc.com and follow me on Facebook!
    “Opinions are like embouchures.” - EZ
    "The rumors of my forever abandoning mouthpiece refacing are greatly exaggerated." - EZ

  14. #12
    Bubba06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cincinnati/Louisville
    Posts
    1,148
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Quote Originally Posted by EZ View Post
    So if someone is a fan of a particular artist and wants to ensure their livelihood as a musician, what are they to do if the artist only receives a mere fraction of the proceeds?
    I've actually made a point of asking some of my favorite artists about that... Apparently using CD Baby is pretty good to artists; they only take $4 for each CD. I always try to buy CDs in person if possible.

    It seems like the idea of even buying the music is outdated these days, though. It seems like the most optimistic artists think of these services as a form of advertising.

    -Bubba-

  15. #13
    Distinguished SOTW Member Woody Reed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    Posts
    1,277
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Quote Originally Posted by MLucky View Post
    It's a really disturbing situation, and it goes well beyond the recording industry.

    [climbs onto soapbox]

    New technologies are changing the rules in so many different businesses, and the result is almost always: a) more convenience for consumers, b) fewer jobs and less money for workers, and c) enormous profits for those who control the technology and who have the resources to influence government to write the rules in their favor.

    When music went from vinyl to CD, the recording industry took the opportunity to reduce the percentage of gross sales that went to musicians and songwriters. When the techies (Apple, mainly) took it from physical CDs to downloads, the musician's cut got reduced again. When record companies struck their deals with streaming services, the percentage paid to musicians got reduced yet again, and now it's miniscule.

    Part of the reason is the way intellectual property laws work for online businesses. Silicon Valley has prevailed upon Congress to make sure that if someone uploads your recording to a website and makes your intellectual available for theft, the website operator is not liable, even if your song (ie, property) is downloaded (ie, stolen) thousands of times. (It's up to you, the property owner, to make the website operator, aware that someone uploaded your copyrighted material, and then their only obligation is to take it down within a "reasonable" period of time. If it gets uploaded again, you have to do it again. And again.) So music is available for free from Youtube and countless other websites, and consumers have learned there's no reason to actually buy music, and we now have the proliferation of services that "rent" access and pay musicians so little it's hardly worth mentioning.

    Similar things are going in, say, the grocery business, which Amazon is set to take over, the taxi business, which Uber and Lyft etc have ruined, the hotel business, which is being taken over by AirBnB. A few people are making huge amounts of money, and many others are losing their livelihoods.
    Very well explained!

    I will clarify some thing though. It's not so much the artist getting screwed with streaming, it's more the writer. They get really nothing. Sound Exchange has done a pretty good job of collecting royalties on the artist and label's behalf. And it's substantial. And it's also paid direct. Not a royalty against the label recouping any advance. So while the advances are smaller because of lack of sales, the artist can sort of make it up from Sound Exchange. The song writer though, sad! And 20 years ago it was the other way around. Th song writer got tons from radio play while the artist saw zero from that.

  16. #14
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2013
    Sigmund451's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    10,099
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Compressed format downloadable music turned music into a disposable medium. Streaming took it one step further and made it a consumable. Bits and bites are made up of zeros and ones. One for the industry. Zero for the artist.
    Phil-Tone Custom Woodwinds
    Custom Mouthpiece Design

    www.Phil-Tone.com


  17. #15
    MLucky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    805
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Quote Originally Posted by EZ View Post
    So if someone is a fan of a particular artist and wants to ensure their livelihood as a musician, what are they to do if the artist only receives a mere fraction of the proceeds?
    Go to gigs, and buy physical format recordings--directly from the artist if possible. Buying a CD from a musician's website or at a gig allows them to keep a much higher percentage of the money than if the CD is sold through Amazon ( or downloaded or streamed).

    Also, talk to friends about the situation. When they say they don't pay for music, you can (politely, rationally) say that you won't illegally download music or patronize streaming services that don't pay musicians because you think it's not fair to the people who wrote and played and recorded it. It sounds futile, but that's how things like "fair trade" coffee came into being: there were enough consumers who said "I won't buy your coffee unless you pay the farmer a fair wage." Change starts with changing attitudes.

  18. #16
    SOTW Columnist
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    JL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    19,667
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Quote Originally Posted by MLucky View Post
    Go to gigs, and buy physical format recordings--directly from the artist if possible. Buying a CD from a musician's website or at a gig allows them to keep a much higher percentage of the money than if the CD is sold through Amazon ( or downloaded or streamed).
    +1. That's how my band does it. However, luckily, none of us rely on this alone to make a living. But we have been able to recoup the cost of recording a CD in the first place, plus a small profit. It helps build up the tip jar on gigs and is good 'promo.' Still no way to make a living wage in this day and age unless you're a big name act in the pop world, unfortunately.

  19. #17
    Distinguished SOTW Member CashSax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    2,369
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    I have one original song on the air..all the outlets sell it for a buck..not selling too well, I get around .02 per download, I made like .24 cents so far...

    Cash's vintage Demo Recordings circa '99-'03 SF Bay Area www.box.net/cashsax

  20. #18
    Discombobulated SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2013-2017
    Rackety Sax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Corner of Walk and Don't Walk
    Posts
    8,905
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    So for the ignorant among us... can someone explain how the streaming services manage to pay so little? Isn't there someone representing the interests of the writers/artists? I mean, in the old days at least the major artists got paid - now it sounds like everyone is cut out of the streaming pie. Is Taylor Swift the only artist with enough pull to at least opt out of the madness (IIRC she does not allow her work to be streamed).
    Stay thirsty my friends.

  21. #19
    Forum Contributor 2015-2017
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    #ROUGHJAZZ
    Posts
    1,300
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Nope. Not really.

  22. #20

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Trondheim
    Posts
    66
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Spotify, Pandora, Streaming, And Survival

    Worth noting - and I'm not commenting on the distribution of revenue between lables/musicians/writers/etc. - that the total revenue from all streaming services is small compared to the peek of cd sales... the hay-day of purchased recorded music.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...st-half-growth

    But a "problem" with streaming services that won't go away is the size of the back catalogue. It's as easy to listen to Dizzy as a contemporary artist; but only the latter would notice the income. Presumably the labels are happy either way.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •