Read If You Use Patches

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  1. #1
    Distinguished SOTW Member 1saxman's Avatar
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    Default Read If You Use Patches

    Hey, I'm meticulous about proper mounting of the reed, particularly in how it relates to the tip rail. I like it pretty much even with it or just a hair under - but never over. I also need reading glasses but never take them to a gig. Still, I'm pretty good at getting the reed on right. Last night I was having trouble getting the reed right at the tip because the tip was unusually 'vague', but it turned out to be the patch had 'crept' toward the beak over time/playing and was now over the edge by about 2 hundredths of an inch. This happens to my patches and was not unexpected, but I usually find it when I'm washing the mouthpiece before a gig, and I just change the patch. But here I was on sound check with a creeping patch. I don't know about you, but I determined a long time ago that this is not a good thing and affects my playing - but I had no patches with me. So, I rolled the dice. I pulled the patch off and repositioned it, hoping it would make the whole gig, and it did. I got lucky this time.
    I have two points here; if you need glasses to set up the damn mouthpiece, use them. If you use patches, make sure the patch is in the position you like and is firmly attached all around before taking the sax out to play.

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    booboo5000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    I've mostly used the clear Runyon patches, which have never moved. Recently a Vandoren clear patch moved on an alto mouthpiece while I was rinsing or wiping off the piece. I repositioned the patch and it has been fine since, but I suspect the adhesive on the Vandoren patch is not as good as that on the Runyon patches. On the other hand, this alto piece is a plastic Brilhart and the first plastic piece I have used any patch with, so who knows.

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    kreacher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    You could also have a patch with you to replace, then if you find yourself in that situation you don't need to gamble that it will stay on after respositioning, you'll know the new one will stay.
    Viajar sempre a cantar... e a tocar!

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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    I keep a stash of patches -- both rubber & clear -- in each of my cases. Also extra mouthpieces & reeds, screwdriver, spring puller, etcetera. If I ever get locked in a green room, the spring puller will serve as a skeleton key.

  7. #5
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    I once had some patches that slipped like this, but never had that problem with the 3M clear patches. However....

    If you want some fantastic patches, check out the Forestone mpc patches. Here's a thread on them (with Steve Nef's review):

    https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...Patches-Review

    I ordered some of these a while back and man I'll never use anything else for this purpose.

  8. #6
    Distinguished SOTW Member 1saxman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    I use the Bay Vibra-Ease .3mm clear which are the best for me. I'm a bit of a biter so any patch is going to move after a few months. I gave up carrying spare patches because they would just get old and not get used. Plus, installing a patch on a gig was not really viable. I have to custom-trim them to fit and clean the beak with solvent to remove the old adhesive. But the biggest reason I stopped carrying them is I would always detect any coming problems and fix them at home. This time was a fluke. I just posted it to rub it in on myself for not using glasses and for not catching it when I washed the mouthpiece earlier that day. Maybe I shouldn't have put it in the dishwasher.
    I wouldn't like the Forestone patches any more than I like their reeds. The patches are too thick for me at .4mm. They're not unusual at all. In fact, they are identical to the patches supplied with Barkley mouthpieces.

  9. #7
    Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Forum Contributor 2010-2017 maddenma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    I've noticed that the glue on the Vandoren clear patches does break down over time and the patch starts moving around. Minor PITA to clean off the old glue too when you go to replace it too.

    I could only wish that was the worst of my playing problems though...
    1926 Buescher Model 122 True Tone Series III Gold Plated Soprano
    1926 Buescher Model 120 True Tone Series III Silver Plated Straight Alto

    1936 Buescher Model 139 Custom Built Bare Brass Baritone
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    2015 Vibrato A1S III Plastic Alto

    Morgan, Ishimori, Strathon, and Theo Wanna Mouthpieces.





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  10. #8
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    My self made patches never ever come of on their own and I have to pull them out every time (few maybe once a year) I decide to change it.

    find your ideal length and width and thickness, cut a trapezoid shape and you are good to go for years and years.

    http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/...ubber-adhesive
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    Interesting ... I recently had exactly the same issue. It was with a BG clear patch in my case.
    Grassi low A bari (1976), Meyer 9M / Martin "The Martin" tenor (1951), OL vintage Tone Edge #7 / Martin "Indiana" alto (1954), Meyer 6M
    Buffet Crampon "Continentale" Bb clarinet (1972), Selmer Focus / Buffet Crampon BC-20 Bb clarinet (1962), Portnoy BP02

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    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    Johan if you care to follow my advise you will never ever get this problem again
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  13. #11
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    edited

  14. #12
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    I have shared in many threads before I’ll do it again.

    CS Hyde in an American company which makes many types of adhesive tape and many other things.

    http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/...ubber-adhesive

    Member Sactopete directed me years ago in that direction and I purchased some UHMW Tape in black version and I believe it was 1mm thick ( but you have it thinner too).

    It comes in many sizes and I believe I took 1” wide.

    Anyway you have an ample choice if you follow the link I gave.

    The surface is impervious to biting and takes a lot of punishment just forming little wrinkles.

    The adhesive is non toxic.
    I have used it for years and a few meters of the stuff will last you a lifetime.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  15. #13
    kreacher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    Quote Originally Posted by milandro View Post
    My self made patches never ever come of on their own and I have to pull them out every time (few maybe once a year) I decide to change it.

    find your ideal length and width and thickness, cut a trapezoid shape and you are good to go for years and years.

    http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/...ubber-adhesive
    And if you're lazy you can purchase this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Pick-Punch-Or.../dp/B005FIFM14
    Viajar sempre a cantar... e a tocar!

  16. #14
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    Well frankly the shape and size of a guitar pick is not what I would recommend besides who needs a punch press (which will produce material that is unusable) for $20 + shipping ( which equals several meters of this stuff) when you can use scissors that we all have at home?

    If you cut a trapezoid you will never have wasted material.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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    kreacher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    It was just a joke
    Viajar sempre a cantar... e a tocar!

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    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    alright
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  19. #17
    Saxlicker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    I concur about reed placement position. I'm not to bad at that but my eyes do fail me in picking up on getting it central on the table width unless the lighting is good.This has a bad effect for me because the knock on effect is that the reed isn't even on both rails. I feel it as much as see it during set up in some poor light conditions.

    On the subject of patches, I used to use yamaha ones....oh dear slip sliding away!!! then I found thin clear patches made by kolbl and they will stick firm until hygiene tells you to pull it of. Luke warm water and a bit of thumb pressure will remove the adhesive before your next patch is put on.

    Here is the first link from a google search.
    http://www.prozonemusic.com/kolbl-mo...saxophone.html
    Saxlicker

    1964 MKVI Tenor, Ben Allen 20TD Mouthpiece Browse the Horns

  20. #18
    Distinguished SOTW Member 1saxman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    In my zeal to be self-deprecating, I left out some things that may explain why I did what I did. First, I place the tip end of the patch very close to the mouthpiece tip. This is for several reasons but the main one is I typically take very little mouthpiece, and second, I don't like my teeth sliding off the patch and hitting metal as I take the sax out of playing position. So, the patch starts out nearly on the edge of the tip. It only has to stretch or creep about 1/16" to be off the edge, and I don't worry about it when its even with the edge, so it could be over and I might not notice it without my glasses, which is exactly what happened.
    Whatever, when I find anything amiss with a patch, it always seems to follow a session (gig, practice) in which I felt like I was 'off' a few ticks, and its always better after I fix it. I otherwise have no explanation for why patch problems bug me. I think any of us get used to the mouthpiece and the slightest little change gets our attention. I'm also funny about the edges; if they're too close to the mouthpiece sides or I cut the patch shorter than usual, I feel them as sharp edges and I'll swap out the patch.
    Anyway, this should explain why the patch starts out close to the tip and why I have to fit each one to the slim Guardala mouthpiece. Its possible for me to do one on the gig - I used to carry several patches and used the little scissors on my key ring knife to trim them but I simply made it a point to intercept this problem at home and avoid having to do it on the job. Except Saturday I didn't catch that tip - but thanks to the quality of the Bay patch, the adhesive made it possible for me to re-position it and get through the gig. And worst case, I have played without the patch. It actually is interesting to do but with that hard and slick bite plate in the Guardala its not something I want to do all the time.
    I don't need a patch at all on plastic or hard rubber mouthpieces - I use the patch on them to protect them from my teeth.
    Reed position; its very critical to me. Getting it perfect to the tip has to be done even when trying out reeds for the gig because if its not always the same, you have no basis for comparison. Also, one millimeter is a big difference and can cause the reed to feel harder if its over the edge and softer/stuffier if its under. You also can get squeaks and/or poor response from a reed just because of bad positioning.
    I feel like you should give yourself every break you can that will help you play. Some of the little things you do don't make much difference by themselves but a number of them together can make a tangible difference.

  21. #19
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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    My BG patches don't move. I did have a reed positioning problem once though. Ran out of good playing reeds and had to use the plastic one. In this case the Black Bamboo reed. Try to place a black reed on a HR piece in a bit of a hurry in a vaguely lit room...

  22. #20

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    Default Re: Read If You Use Patches

    Over many years I always use Bay clear patches and they have never ever moved.

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