Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

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    Default Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    I was wondering, if some saxophone solos have been in dispute about who recorded it and somebody else took credit for it, or mistakenly attributed with it. I remember reading a thread about something like that, but cannot find it.

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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by zorroperro View Post
    I was wondering, if some saxophone solos have been in dispute about who recorded it and somebody else took credit for it, or mistakenly attributed with it. I remember reading a thread about something like that, but cannot find it.
    Probably the most famous solo of all time, Baker Street, has been disputed. That may be what you are thinking of.

    Part of the reason being at different times several players were called on the session, for different takes and so there may have been various possibilities in the final mix. Raf Ravenscroft was of course credited.

    There was a dispute over the authorship, as Raf claimed he came up with the line, but this was not true as Gerry rafferty had already decided on the riff.

    Story: my friend Pete Horn was originally called on the session but couldn't make it due to having a cold, so got Raf to deputise for him. ha!
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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    Misinformation in the music industry on this subject is deliberate and rampant. The reason is, a group may have a sax player but a 'hit man' does the solo (and gets paid handsomely because there will be no royalties in it for him), but in the interests of commercialization, the actual player is never made public. Its up to the discerning listener to try to identify the player in question. Album liner notes in pop music are no good for this purpose - they are part of the deception.
    Since many pro players obviously know all of this, they have deduced that they can claim to have played solos they actually had nothing to do with, and they are at no risk because in order to prosecute them the actual player would have to be named, and that's not going to happen. The musicians involved are all under basically a 'gag order' by the labels - not really a judicial decree, more like 'You'll never work in this town again'. LOL But really, its serious business. One 'hit man', Plas Johnson, has done more sax solos than probably all the others combined. He was on hundreds of hit records, plus probably many more that never made it. I studied this player for 30 years before I knew who he actually was, and that was only because the internet started. He even made his own album and even then used a stage name. Part of this was because of the above reason but also it was the '50s and '60s, and Plas is Afro-American. Anyway his album is 'Sax 5th Avenue' by 'Johnny Beecher'. I saw some video on You Tube a few years ago were some washed-up sax player claimed he played the sax ride on 'Let's Go' by 'The Routers', which obviously was another Plas 'hit maker'.
    Another famous fake was the Michael Brecker solo on the 'Average White Band's 'Pick Up the Pieces'. The Brecker Brothers did the horn parts on the whole album but yet there are those who insist the group's sax player took that solo. Funny, but he never played anything again that sounded remotely like it. I was working in a club the first time I heard the song, which was an instant hit, and I knew right then that the sax player did not come from Scotland. Once I found out the Breckers were on the record, the answer was obvious.
    Basically you can't believe very much publicized info about who did what with whom for the simple reason that the truth is not 'out there'. OTOH we do know a lot of them; Pete Christlieb on 'Deacon Blues' for example. But if Steely Dan had a sax player in the group we might not even know that. It was always supremely important to the labels to keep these things secret to preserve the value of the artists and groups in question.

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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    Interesting topic.

    BAKER STREET as Pete stated is a classic example.
    THE HEAT IS ON
    RETURN TO SENDER
    HEATWAVE
    SURFER’S STOMP
    SPOOKY
    YOUNG BLOOD

    These are just a few Billboard Top 40 hits taking a quick look through our list.

    A lot of interesting history about who played on which hit record and it has been a real job in getting the correct credits to as many as possible. We still have many in question, especially the mid 50’s era.

    I have a list that you might like which contains some brief stories behind the session players and those who claim to have played the solo that we have found to date. And we (Steve D. Marshall-UK) are still updating the list.

    Send a PM note to me with your email address and I will forward the 103 page list (THE HISTORY OF “TOP 40” SAXOPHONE SOLOS - 1955-2015) if you are interested. Glad to share. You might even have a song or know a name to add that we have missed.

    I also have a 518 page PDF file which contains photos, bios and emails from some of the artists. Preface by Plas Johnson, Foreward by Dave “ Woody” Woodford & United Kingdom Foreward by Snake Davis.

    I can send it by email but you may or may not be able to open it due to the size. So far we have had good luck getting it to open on the other end.

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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Laughter View Post
    I can send it by email but you may or may not be able to open it due to the size. So far we have had good luck getting it to open on the other end.
    Instead of sending through email, send it by Wetransfer or Filemail. Or upload to Dropbox or Google Drive.
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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1saxman View Post
    One 'hit man', Plas Johnson, has done more sax solos than probably all the others combined. He was on hundreds of hit records, plus probably many more that never made it. ......He even made his own album and even then used a stage name. Part of this was because of the above reason but also it was the '50s and '60s, and Plas is Afro-American.
    Interesting, and I suspect your analysis is correct. I think it's a real shame, not to mention a 'sham,' when the actual musicians who did the playing aren't credited. Plas did make a recording under his real name, but it wasn't until 1975 (released in '76 on Concord Jazz). I have the CD: "Plas Johnson-The Blues." Ray Brown, bass; Herb Ellis, guitar; Bobbye Hall, congas; Jake Hanna, drums; Mike Melvoin, keys.

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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    Instead of sending through email, send it by Wetransfer or Filemail. Or upload to Dropbox or Google Drive
    Thanks

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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    Yes Pete, this is the one I was referring. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Thomas View Post
    Probably the most famous solo of all time, Baker Street, has been disputed. That may be what you are thinking of.

    Part of the reason being at different times several players were called on the session, for different takes and so there may have been various possibilities in the final mix. Raf Ravenscroft was of course credited.

    There was a dispute over the authorship, as Raf claimed he came up with the line, but this was not true as Gerry rafferty had already decided on the riff.

    Story: my friend Pete Horn was originally called on the session but couldn't make it due to having a cold, so got Raf to deputise for him. ha!

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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    If I remember correctly, there was even a dispute between the family of a passed player and other one due to the ownership of the recorded part of a hit. Cannot recall if it was Baker Street, really, but it happened here at SOTW.

    Of course if more than one player is asked to record and the use of modification by the production of the tape goes on, well, somebody can get confused.

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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    PM sent with email. Thanks a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Laughter View Post
    Interesting topic.

    BAKER STREET as Pete stated is a classic example.
    THE HEAT IS ON
    RETURN TO SENDER
    HEATWAVE
    SURFER’S STOMP
    SPOOKY
    YOUNG BLOOD

    These are just a few Billboard Top 40 hits taking a quick look through our list.

    A lot of interesting history about who played on which hit record and it has been a real job in getting the correct credits to as many as possible. We still have many in question, especially the mid 50’s era.

    I have a list that you might like which contains some brief stories behind the session players and those who claim to have played the solo that we have found to date. And we (Steve D. Marshall-UK) are still updating the list.

    Send a PM note to me with your email address and I will forward the 103 page list (THE HISTORY OF “TOP 40” SAXOPHONE SOLOS - 1955-2015) if you are interested. Glad to share. You might even have a song or know a name to add that we have missed.

    I also have a 518 page PDF file which contains photos, bios and emails from some of the artists. Preface by Plas Johnson, Foreward by Dave “ Woody” Woodford & United Kingdom Foreward by Snake Davis.

    I can send it by email but you may or may not be able to open it due to the size. So far we have had good luck getting it to open on the other end.

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    Default Re: Has some sax solo recording authorship in dispute? Who was it really?

    PM sent with email. Thanks a lot.
    Welcome. Reply sent.

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