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Are Reeds just plain bad?

4K views 64 replies 36 participants last post by  Smokey613 
#1 ·
This afternoon, I have been trying to find a reed that will not warp while I play. I have four types of Vandoren Reeds in my case and three types and strengths of Rico Select reeds in my case. I have 24 reeds "ready" to go, but every last one has warped bad enough to have to stop and take them off, work them a bit, and try again, only to have start over with the reed. I have not been able to get through the first track of Jamey Aebersold's Vol. 3 without the reeds warping before the end of the track. According my hygrometer, the humidity is at 60 % with a room temperature of 75 degrees. A reed should last more than 3:31 minutes, don't you think. Is there a decent reed out there? Or do all the reeds just stink?
 
#3 ·
What do you do with them prior to playing?

That sounds crazy. I thought I had it worse - I live in high desert, 7000', and humidity is often in single digits. My reeds used to just dry out while playing. I've over that. Reeds are my friend.

FWIW, I use Alexander DC, Rigotti, and Rico Select Jazz on tenor.
 
#5 ·
Lots o' love for Legeres, but a couple of people that have subbed with my band play them, and their sound just isn't happenin'. It may not all be the fault of the Legere, but it's there.
 
#7 ·
Dr G, that is a fair point. I'd say the Legere gives me 85% of what I can get from a *good* cane reed. But the practicality and consistency of the Legeres far outweigh those challenges, IMO. As you know, I am a big fan too. I'd go as far as saying the Legere is better then the average cane reed you get out of a 10 reed box of any brand.
 
#8 ·
Can't speak for others, of course, but I find the tone of the Legere Studio Cut to be quite similar to the cane reeds I was using before. I prefer them because they never warp, you don't have to soak them or do any weird rituals to break them in, and you can leave them on your mouthpiece in between sets without them changing shape and closing up on you.

The only issue I have with them is that the edges are sometimes a bit sharp, which can irritate my lip. To prevent this, I usually take a piece of fine sandpaper to the edges to smooth them out a bit. YMMV.
 
#10 ·
Can't speak for others, of course, but I find the tone of the Legere Studio Cut to be quite similar to the cane reeds I was using before. I prefer them because they never warp, you don't have to soak them or do any weird rituals to break them in, and you can leave them on your mouthpiece in between sets without them changing shape and closing up on you.
YMMV.
Quite interesting. As I have posted in another thread, I have had problems about my cane reed drying up during playing intervals in a gig no matter how long I soak it in water before using. Time to migrate to plastic reed!
 
#22 ·
+1. But if all 24 reeds warp after playing them for a couple of minutes, I don't have an answer for that. In over 40 years of playing, I've never had more than a small percentage of reeds warp on me, and even then after getting them wet and playing them for a few minutes the warping disappeared.

I get as frustrated as anyone over the inconsistency of reeds, but looking at it from a different perspective, it's truly amazing how a good reed can sing and last long enough to play several gigs. Yes, they are all slightly different, some better than others, but overall reeds are amazing things.
 
#12 ·
After reading this post, I have a suggestion that others have not mentioned. Turn the bari saxophone into a lamp for about ten dollars of supplies at the local hardware, wax the body and keys up, and sell it on eBay for about $300.00, then buy a trumpet. Instruments that rely on reeds tend to be money pits that never play well due to the inherent inconsistency of cane. I think once you spend a hundred dollars or more on trying new cane reeds, another 100 or more on synthetic reed, and then say another 100 on a new mouthpiece, you are three hundred in for an instrument that will still need reed replacement. For $500.00, you could get a much better trumpet without the headaches that reed give you day by day. Turn it in a lamp, sell it, make a profit, and get a newer trumpet that you won't worry will need a new reed every 3 minutes.

Cheers.
 
#14 ·
LOL, this∆ I have caught myself daydreaming the same thing about what it would be like to play trumpet. I'm sure they search around for the right mouthpiece, etc., But at least when they get what they like, it doesn't change, or wear out. Anyway, have you tried using a Reed Geek? I'm not sure if it would fix your problems or not, but just a thought. I just recently got one and am kind of impressed. The other day,I used it to trim a burr off the tip of my Fibracell synthetic reed. :) Ironic I know, but I'm using it on cane too.
 
#13 ·
Yeah a trumpet might be the way to go, but that hurts my lips after blowing a few minutes. You just replace the vibrating reed by vibrating lips...
And if the quality of your lips ain't good they cannot be replaced. I'd rather replace some reed.

But anyway back to the topic:
If you got 24 warped reeds from multiple suppliers there must be something wrong with the storage of reeds.
How do you store them (light, temp, humidity)?
How old are the reeds?
Did you try a new reed?

I'm in a mild climate with average humidity and reeds last far over 6 weeks. I play about 10-12 hours a week. They go soft(-er) and that is the sign to get rid of them. After that they warp. Looks like you have bad luck in storage or aging of the reeds.
 
#15 ·
happiness
ˈhapɪnəs/
noun
noun: happiness; plural noun: happinesses


the state of being happy.
"he found happiness in a wet Alexander reed"
synonyms: contentment, pleasure, contentedness, satisfaction, cheerfulness, cheeriness, merriment, merriness, gaiety, joy, joyfulness, joyousness, joviality, jollity, jolliness, glee, blitheness, carefreeness, gladness, delight, good spirits, high spirits, light-heartedness, good cheer, well-being, enjoyment, felicity
antonyms: unhappiness
"the synthetic reed filled him with unhappiness"
 
#17 ·
I haven’t found a synthetic reed that I like better than natural cane.



Natural cane, like all natural products or an handmade product (and in this case , reed is both) is subject to individual variation.

All the reed makers ever do is to grow the cane as best they can and cut them all the same, contrary to what most believe they are not cut differently for strength the resistance at the tip is tested and the reeds are selected accordingly, and then pack them.

But like the cup of coffee that you are drinking , different batches will deliver a reed with different characteristics.

A grower doesn’t “ make” a reed anymore that he makes a tomato. After selecting the right reed and growing it in the right soil harvesting, maturing it and cut it, the red is a product of the nature.

Most people are now experiencing extreme weather. We have had in the NL for the last 10 years, each year in a row, record temperatures. This year the rainfall is one of the lowest in 40 years.

What do you think that does to cane wherever it is grown?


Of course some say that weather changing is an hoax :twisted: these people don’t grow anything and the closest they happen to be to nature is on a golf course (in Florida where the sea level is rising all the time).


Still I love to play on natural cane.



If you have 24 reeds that you don’t like there must be something pretty radical happening with these reeds or with you. It is highly unlikely that 24 reeds will all fail though.




Reeds, with me, warp, pretty much straight away and then relax and get straight as you play.

In my experience a soak in warm water takes care of that. Once reed is wetted wel through and through, it can resist even a direct hit. Most of the times it wil bend back as if nothing had happened.

This is the incredible quality of natural cane.

Unlike artificial fibers, natural cane is a natural composite material of which water is an essential part. The cell walls are very much more elastic than plastic but have a natural rigidity too.

Reed was designed in eons of evolution to flex without breaking under gusts of wind which break anything else. Jigoro Kano the founding father of Ju-do , took this plant as an example. It flexes, absorb the opponent force, but doesn’t break.

Where reed grows there are no tall trees (also because the marshlands are not generally able to support that kind of tree) and id there are trees ( like a weeping willow) they too provide very elastic wood which we use to weave baskets and things like that.
 
#21 ·
I haven't found a synthetic reed that I like better than natural cane.

Natural cane, like all natural products or an handmade product (and in this case , reed is both) is subject to individual variation.

All the reed makers ever do is to grow the cane as best they can and cut them all the same, contrary to what most believe they are not cut differently for strength the resistance at the tip is tested and the reeds are selected accordingly, and then pack them.

But like the cup of coffee that you are drinking , different batches will deliver a reed with different characteristics.

A grower doesn't " make" a reed anymore that he makes a tomato. After selecting the right reed and growing it in the right soil harvesting, maturing it and cut it, the red is a product of the nature.

Most people are now experiencing extreme weather. We have had in the NL for the last 10 years, each year in a row, record temperatures. This year the rainfall is one of the lowest in 40 years.

What do you think that does to cane wherever it is grown?

Of course some say that weather changing is an hoax :twisted: these people don't grow anything and the closest they happen to be to nature is on a golf course (in Florida where the sea level is rising all the time).

Still I love to play on natural cane.

If you have 24 reeds that you don't like there must be something pretty radical happening with these reeds or with you. It is highly unlikely that 24 reeds will all fail though.

Reeds, with me, warp, pretty much straight away and then relax and get straight as you play.

In my experience a soak in warm water takes care of that. Once reed is wetted wel through and through, it can resist even a direct hit. Most of the times it wil bend back as if nothing had happened.

This is the incredible quality of natural cane.

Unlike artificial fibers, natural cane is a natural composite material of which water is an essential part. The cell walls are very much more elastic than plastic but have a natural rigidity too.

Reed was designed in eons of evolution to flex without breaking under gusts of wind which break anything else. Jigoro Kano the founding father of Ju-do , took this plant as an example. It flexes, absorb the opponent force, but doesn't break.

Where reed grows there are no tall trees (also because the marshlands are not generally able to support that kind of tree) and id there are trees ( like a weeping willow) they too provide very elastic wood which we use to weave baskets and things like that.
Best post on reeds I've seen in all my years on this forum. From my experience I have found everything Milandro says here to be true. Reed are just like people, they're all different individually while sharing many similarities just like most species of living things. Yes it's a plant, but it is a living creation of nature and is affected by the same cosmic, planetary and climatological forces as we are. Have you never realized, sitting in the sun on a warm blue-sky spring day and feeling wonderful because of it, that you are no different than the flowers in your garden or a marmot on a mountain slope or a rattlesnake sunning on a rock? Plants turn toward the sun and seek water, just as we do, and when they don't get a sufficient amount of each they suffer the effects of that. Every reed sings slightly differently than others, just like birds, monkeys and people. This is reality and we have to live with it.

That said, for my own taste and purposes I also often play synthetic and Plasticover reeds and find them to be quite good. I doubt that people in the audience can tell the difference at all, so what difference does it make? Everything is a trade-off in the end, and if the convenience of not having to deal with finicky living objects makes my live playing easier, then that is a plus, not a minus. But that's me and the mileage of many others may and probably does differ.
 
#23 ·
:)

today I got inspired by this thread and decided to chuck away my three Rigotti Jazz that I have in a monthly rotation ( after my return from holiday they had lost the buzz ) took three new ones form an oped pack, one looked rather bad, the base being even a bit chipped, but it played well, the other two played even better.

3 picked at random and the return was 3 usable reeds.

Luck? Good brand better than most? Maybe I am not as picky as OP? Maybe I am not as good...

I don’t know.

But if I had OP's failure rate I’d be very concerned, ...about myself or my horn rather than about reed makers, because they sell reeds every day and they couldn’t do that if they were so bad, so something else has to be at play here.
 
#24 ·
I've gotten pretty frustrated with my reeds on occasion, but nothing like this. 24 bad reeds in a row? If you spent just five minutes with each one, that'd be two hours of pure frustration. I shudder at the very thought.

Like a lot of people here, I feel like the consistency of reeds isn't what it used to be. This could very well be one of the many results of the changes in our climate, which is becoming increasingly extreme. (Here in California, a record rainfall winter this year is following by record high June temps. It was 109F yesterday. Can't wait for July and August...) For me, this has meant that if I buy a box of reeds, I only expect about one in five to be good, but I also expect 2-3 to be tolerable, and couple throwaways. Given that a box usually goes for $25 or so, this is no laughing matter. But 24 unusable reeds in a row? I'd be fit for straightjacket.
 
#31 ·
As soon as I wet them, the tips of my reeds do warp, but they straighten out after I play them for a few minutes. I live in a desert, so I doubt if there are any good solutions for my cane reeds not warping in response to moisture. I used synthetic for quite awhile, but I can't get altissimo out of synthetic. Also, I don't like the tone quite as well with synthetic. As for switching to trumpet, you either love sax so much that you would never consider leaving it, or you don't. I can't leave it. It's imprinted on my soul for better or worse, in spite of richer or poorer reeds. I've tried scraping reeds to adjust them...ugh. I can make destroyed reeds playable, but not good. I cannot make mediocre but playable reeds better. Someone somewhere might be able to teach us to adjust them.
 
#34 ·
this looks positively like a conversation among double reed players.

their obsession is reeds. Like for the mouthpieces with saxophone players.

I am happy to have found both. I am no longer looking for anything.

You know the joke of the psychiatric institution dedicated to musicians?

A new doctor comes to such a place and they take him around the premises. They see all kind of people discussing mouthpieces, reeds, strings, picks, guitars, sticks, size of their drum (each sort of instruments was represented), scales and complicated things about music especially if Jazz is dead or not .

At some point they see a guy in a corner playing the same note over and over again. The new doctor asks who that guy is. They say it’s André and that he’s been here a long time. The doctor goes to him and asks how come he only plays while standing in a corner.

He answers that all the others (aside for discussing how to get it) are looking for the right sound... but that he has found it!
 
#42 ·
this looks positively like a conversation among double reed players.

their obsession is reeds. Like for the mouthpieces with saxophone players.

I am happy to have found both. I am no longer looking for anything.

You know the joke of the psychiatric institution dedicated to musicians?

A new doctor comes to such a place and they take him around the premises. They see all kind of people discussing mouthpieces, reeds, strings, picks, guitars, sticks, size of their drum (each sort of instruments was represented), scales and complicated things about music especially if Jazz is dead or not .

At some point they see a guy in a corner playing the same note over and over again. The new doctor asks who that guy is. They say it's André and that he's been here a long time. The doctor goes to him and asks how come he only plays while standing in a corner.

He answers that all the others (aside for discussing how to get it) are looking for the right sound... but that he has found it!
:lol::badgrin::cheers::thumbrig::sign5::bom::joker::smurf:

For a second I thought you were going to say that his name is Ikema. :mrgreen:
 
#35 ·
Reeds suck, and then you die.

Life is better on trombone.
 
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