Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    I play a The Martin alto with a Meyer 7M. I realized recently that this piece is too open for me -- the low register tends to play flat or subtone. I switched to a softer reed (Rigotto medium soft), which helps to some extent but doesn't totally solve the problem, and anyway I prefer a medium to medium-hard reed. So I'm shopping for a mouthpiece. Since the Meyer is the only alto piece I've played at all extensively, I'm planning to order a bunch of mouthpieces, say half a dozen, from a store with a good return policy and keep the one I like best. Mouthpiece gurus of SOTW, please share some ideas for what to try!

    For what it's worth, the sound I'm after is a classic bebop tone -- think Cannonball or Lou Donaldson. In terms of tip opening: I tried my teacher's Mouthpiece Cafe NYC piece, which is a 5 with an opening of .072" (compared to my Meyer's .081" or so), and that played very easily. I could probably go a little more open, so I'm thinking anything in the .072"-.076" range or so could work. (I liked the Mouthpiece Cafe and it's one of the pieces I'm considering, but I figure it can't hurt to try out some others.) Price wise I'm hoping to stay around $200 or so (so no vintage Florida Link for me, sadly).

    What are some obvious choices to try? And what's a good online store to try them from? WWBW and Weiner Music both seem to have good selections and a trial/return policy -- where else?

  2. Remove Advertisements
    SaxOnTheWeb.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Discombobulated SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2013-2017
    Rackety Sax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Corner of Walk and Don't Walk
    Posts
    8,888
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Contact one of the great mouthpiece techs on the forum like Phil-tone, Mojo, or Ed Zentera and see if they have a used Meyer blank that they could finish to a 6 tip for you, or put out a wanted listing in the marketplace for a used Meyer to send to them or one finished by one of them. Or even easier, send one of them your existing Meyer and ask them to close it down a little and make it play well. You can do that for way less that $200.
    Stay thirsty my friends.

  4. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Hadn't thought of that -- I could probably get Eric Drake (who refaced my Meyer originally) to close it down a little. But I'm curious to try other pieces, too.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    SaxOnTheWeb.net
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Discombobulated SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2013-2017
    Rackety Sax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Corner of Walk and Don't Walk
    Posts
    8,888
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Vandoren V16 S or M chamber or stock hard rubber Yani mouthpiece if they are sold individually. New handmade mouthpieces generally run more than $200, but there's Phil-tone, Morgan, Drake, Barone, Mouthpiece Cafe as you've already mentioned, Wanne, Klum, Ishimori Wood Stone, and many more.
    Stay thirsty my friends.

  7. #5

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    For under $200 new, your best bets probably would be either the Vandoren, or (and I would recommend) the d'Addario Select Jazz alto in either 5 (.073) or 6 (.077) tip size. Consider trying out both the 5 and 6 tip d'Addario mpcs from 'Woodwind and Brasswinds', and keep the one that works best for you, returning the other. While there are many other makers that have quality mouthpieces (and I have a number of these myself), usually you'll have to pay well over $200 new for these. The d'Addario piece is like a good Meyer vintage piece, with excellent and consistent workmanship (CNC facings), so you don't have to worry about choosing the best out of 4 or 6 pieces, nor will you need later to have it perfected by one of the mouthpiece experts. Good luck.

  8. #6
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles County
    Posts
    13,056
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Not trying to challenge you, but just what IS a bebop tone? Are you confusing technique with tone? Seems to me that a good alto sound can work in any form of alto sax music. Take away the notes being played (and the frantic nature of bebop) and concentrate on the sound. All the good altos over the years sound like altos to me from Hodges to Gallodoro to Dorsey, etc.

    So, if you like the sound of your Meyer now, why not down-size the tip-opening? And, if you don't already know this, Meyers come in a variety of chamber sizes, lengths-of-lay, and tip-openings. Most everyone recommends the 6M-M, but I've liked my 6S-M the best of all the Meyers I've owned. Just something to think about as you go on the hunt. DAVE
    Dave

  9. #7
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2015-2016
    Dr G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    27,264
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    The Phil-Tone Solstice is a candidate worthy of consideration.

    https://phil-tone.com/alto/solstice

    Watch for a used one if you have to stay under $200.
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

    As a Veteran for Peace, I am already against the next war.

  10. #8

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Dolson View Post
    Not trying to challenge you, but just what IS a bebop tone? Are you confusing technique with tone? Seems to me that a good alto sound can work in any form of alto sax music. Take away the notes being played (and the frantic nature of bebop) and concentrate on the sound. All the good altos over the years sound like altos to me from Hodges to Gallodoro to Dorsey, etc.
    I understand your point but you have to admit that Johnny Hodges, Lou Donaldson, Art Pepper, or Paul Desmond did sound differently from each other, although of course each was clearly identifiable as playing alto.

  11. #9

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Dolson View Post

    So, if you like the sound of your Meyer now, why not down-size the tip-opening? And, if you don't already know this, Meyers come in a variety of chamber sizes, lengths-of-lay, and tip-openings. Most everyone recommends the 6M-M, but I've liked my 6S-M the best of all the Meyers I've owned. Just something to think about as you go on the hunt. DAVE
    Actually it wasn't clear to me whether OP likes the sound of the Meyer and is just having trouble controlling its open facing, or wants something different in sound.

    No matter, my first reaction would be to copy your (Dave's) recommendation and try smaller facings of Meyers. The Meyer on alto is about the most standard MP recommendation you can get, and it is very flexible so you can make almost any kind of sound you want. They also aren't that expensive and despite a lot of people complaining about the quality of current production ones "not like they used to be" my experience has been exactly the opposite. I have both old and new Meyer mouthpieces and I think the quality of the new ones is just fine.

    I think that if you can't get a good quality, projecting alto sound with flexibility and good intonation on a Meyer mouthpiece of reasonable size, then you need to work on other things than mouthpiece choice.

    First place I would go would probably be to order several Meyer MPs of varying facings and give those a good thorough try.

    If you like a more closed MP, try a Selmer Soloist C* or D. I have heard but cannot confirm, that the new production Soloists are really close to the old ones, but the old ones aren't that expensive either. This is what I use in small group work.

  12. #10
    The most prolific Distinguished SOTW poster
    Forum Contributor 2007-present
    gary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hawaiian homey, German resident, doing time in Texas
    Posts
    27,212
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    FWIW, I play a Ponzol Hard Rubber Classic, about a #6 size that had some work done on it by Ed Zentera (SOTW). It's based on classic bepop-used mouthpieces by Meyer and Link of the 50s and 60s. Great mouthpiece.

    Just curious. Did you precede this post with a look at already existing threads on this topic? There are only about a bazillion already posted.
    ____________________________________________________
    You can't blow it if you haven't lived it.

    "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
    - - Chet Baker


    TK Melody UL soprano
    Selmer S80 Serie II alto
    Julius Keilwerth SX90R tenor


  13. #11
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles County
    Posts
    13,056
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Maybe he does - and maybe he doesn't - like his Meyer. I like mine, though and after going through the drill, settled on the 6S-M. But I don't play bebop.

    But whoa - what does THAT matter? Any of the players known for their alto work sound good, even if they may have sightly different tone. I'll throw in the classical players, too - change the method they use to get the notes out - and they all SOUND good. To me, bebop is a style, not a tone.

    I also have other alto mouthpieces that I've used over time . . . Sinta, S-80C*, Soloist C*, Soloist F, Super Session F, Brilhart Ebolin 3*, Morgan-Bilger 6, etc. Any of them work for me. And having them available to play on a whim adds to my saxophone enjoyment. DAVE
    Dave

  14. #12
    JazzManCan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,746
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Check out some videos of Cameron Wallis, Canadian player based in Montreal who plays a Selmer super session on his Martin. Fantastic bebop-esque style and tone and he sounds fantastic on a piece that not a lot of people play these days. Maybe give that a shot!

  15. #13
    JazzManCan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,746
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?


  16. #14
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Technician
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    20,008
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    I always suggest starting with a tip opening that you are comfortable with. That Meyer 7M is pretty open at about .078- .081 (charts vary). I play mostly alto and use .072 -.075 tips. That may be a good starting point for you. Here is a chart for alto: http://jodyjazz.com/facing-page/alto...-facing-chart/

  17. #15

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    258
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    My take on it is that it's not the mouthpiece model, you're just driving it with to hard reeds. I would find softer reeds for that Meyer and work on the embouchure for a month. If you go down in opening you will not change the way you sound, it will only feel a little different and you will have less flexibility over tone.

  18. #16

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Thanks for the suggestions, everyone -- please keep them coming.

    I like the sound of the Meyer, so a smaller Meyer is definitely one thing to try. But mainly I want to try out a range of pieces, so am looking to put together a shortlist before ordering. I figure it can't hurt to get some experience playing a variety of mouthpieces before settling on one.

    Dave, your point is well taken about bebop being more of a style than a tone -- I totally agree with that. Still to me there is something more rich and muscular about the tone of a lot of bebop players that sets them apart from West Coast players like Pepper/Desmond and also from "prettier" swing players like Hodges; also from most modern players, whose tone concept tends to be different, though maybe that's more about things like vibrato and articulation than actual tone. This is overgeneralizing wildly and maybe there's nothing in it. So to be more specific let's say I'm looking for the kind of piece that pulls more towards a Cannonball or Lou Donaldson tone (who aren't the same of course, but still strike me as being in a similar sonic territory).

  19. #17

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    109
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Dave, how would you describe the difference between the 6M-M and the 6S-M?

  20. #18
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2012 dexdex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    2,742
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    I'd also vote for Vandoren V16, whatever size you feel comfortable with. And reeds with some buzz. I recall being happy with ZZs or LaVoz, but this was before I moved to synthetics, a good decade ago.
    Sop Yana SC880 - Vandoren V16 S6 - Fiberreed Carbon Classic MH ¦ Alto SA-II - Meyer 7M - Fiberreed Carbon M
    Tenor MkVII - Link STM 8* - Fiberreed Carbon M ¦ Bari SA-II - JJ ESP 7* - Fiberreed Carbon M
    Hear them on The Groove Merchant.

  21. #19
    ZootTheSim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    361
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzManCan View Post
    Check out some videos of Cameron Wallis, Canadian player based in Montreal who plays a Selmer super session on his Martin. Fantastic bebop-esque style and tone and he sounds fantastic on a piece that not a lot of people play these days.
    I picked up a Selmer Super Session D for my The Martin alto recently on bruce bailey's rec. Really nice jazz piece for that horn: very clear and full in the middle and upper register, with a nice woody heart lower down, and just a touch of edge. For rock or blues, I prefer my Klum Acoustimax, which is louder and edgier.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  22. #20
    Merchant CE Winds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida, United States
    Posts
    730
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Recommend some MPs to try for a bebop style on a The Martin?

    Quote Originally Posted by trecht View Post
    I play a The Martin alto with a Meyer 7M. I realized recently that this piece is too open for me -- the low register tends to play flat or subtone. I switched to a softer reed (Rigotto medium soft), which helps to some extent but doesn't totally solve the problem, and anyway I prefer a medium to medium-hard reed. So I'm shopping for a mouthpiece. Since the Meyer is the only alto piece I've played at all extensively, I'm planning to order a bunch of mouthpieces, say half a dozen, from a store with a good return policy and keep the one I like best. Mouthpiece gurus of SOTW, please share some ideas for what to try!

    For what it's worth, the sound I'm after is a classic bebop tone -- think Cannonball or Lou Donaldson. In terms of tip opening: I tried my teacher's Mouthpiece Cafe NYC piece, which is a 5 with an opening of .072" (compared to my Meyer's .081" or so), and that played very easily. I could probably go a little more open, so I'm thinking anything in the .072"-.076" range or so could work. (I liked the Mouthpiece Cafe and it's one of the pieces I'm considering, but I figure it can't hurt to try out some others.) Price wise I'm hoping to stay around $200 or so (so no vintage Florida Link for me, sadly).

    What are some obvious choices to try? And what's a good online store to try them from? WWBW and Weiner Music both seem to have good selections and a trial/return policy -- where else?
    Our Pure Vintage M Bros may work for you, and is under $200 new. Size is .070. 30 Days money back.

    http://www.cewinds.com/product/pure-...ne-mouthpiece/
    CE Winds - Performance when it matters. Custom handmade saxophone mouthpieces, Ft Myers, Florida.

    www.cewinds.com

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •