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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    A suction test is far from definitive for any diagnostics - false negatives are all too common.
    Soooo you're saying, not to perform the test at all, take the horn back to the tech and have the tech say "oh, it's the reed!"....or "oh, its the crack in your mouthpiece!". Nothing in life is definitive with the exception of death and taxes lol.
    However, it's basic trouble shooting. It's the first questions any tech will ask

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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by krazykirb View Post
    Soooo you're saying, not to perform the test at all, take the horn back to the tech and have the tech say "oh, it's the reed!"....or "oh, its the crack in your mouthpiece!". Nothing in life is definitive with the exception of death and taxes lol.
    However, it's basic trouble shooting. It's the first questions any tech will ask
    Odds that all 4-5 mouthpieces and 5-6 reeds I tried are all bad are? =)
    "Can't never could."

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    It takes all of two seconds to perform but hey, suit yourself!

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    but if OP was subtoning perfectly before the overhaul suspect the reed or the mouthpiece is less than a likely culprit, even more so if he has tried multiple mouthpieces and reeds?

    It might take two seconds but what’s the point?

    Anyway, owning a leak light should be made compulsory because it the first diagnostic stop to anyone anyway.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by krazykirb View Post
    Soooo you're saying, not to perform the test at all, take the horn back to the tech and have the tech say "oh, it's the reed!"....or "oh, its the crack in your mouthpiece!". Nothing in life is definitive with the exception of death and taxes lol.
    However, it's basic trouble shooting. It's the first questions any tech will ask
    No, it's NOT the first question any tech will ask. I've been playing tenor sax for 45+ years, and KNOW when a reed is bad. A cracked mouthpiece?! Seriously???
    Go for The Tone,

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    As a Veteran for Peace, I am already against the next war.

  7. #26

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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by krazykirb View Post
    Soooo you're saying, not to perform the test at all, take the horn back to the tech and have the tech say "oh, it's the reed!"....or "oh, its the crack in your mouthpiece!". Nothing in life is definitive with the exception of death and taxes lol.
    However, it's basic trouble shooting. It's the first questions any tech will ask
    I imagine the first thing the tech will do is ask to see the horn and run a light through it to look for a leaks, not check the mouthpiece for cracks.
    1936 Conn 10M tenor, 1941 Buescher "Big B" alto, 1917 Conn curved soprano

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    I see why these forums have so many people just watching and choose not the chime in. It's because there's always a couple of knuckle heads whose sole intentions are to put down the next person down and simply argue. Most long threads here have people arguing. it's just sad!

    The suction test, for those who don't know, tests for numerous things. I only mentioned two, some of the most obvious but the players, non techs, got stuck on those. The suction test can confirm if the neck cork is sealing properly, if there's a leak in the octave pip, the pad is ripped or misaligned, and/or even if the neck tenon is leaking where it's soldered. Whether or not the OP chooses to follow it, is his prerogative however to dismiss it all together is just wrong. It's a well accepted and valid test. It's not like I asked the OP to submerge his sax in tank of water and look for bubbles!

    In 2015 I overhauled 59 saxes, 67 in 2016 and I've done 26 this year. For those who are players, how many saxes have you overhauled? Just last week alone, I through out four mouthpieces that came in the instruments that were purchased, each was cracked at the shank lengthwise. But maybe you're not familiar with this scenario since you don't work on saxes like I do.

    So while you want to come on the forum AND TYPE IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE YOU'RE A DRAMA QUEEN, please save your comments. You can heed or not heed the next idea but don't put it down.

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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by krazykirb View Post
    The suction test, for those who don't know, tests for numerous things. I only mentioned two, some of the most obvious but the players, non techs, got stuck on those. The suction test can confirm if the neck cork is sealing properly, if there's a leak in the octave pip, the pad is ripped or misaligned, and/or even if the neck tenon is leaking where it's soldered. Whether or not the OP chooses to follow it, is his prerogative however to dismiss it all together is just wrong. It's a well accepted and valid test. It's not like I asked the OP to submerge his sax in tank of water and look for bubbles!
    No need to be a prick about it, Kirb. As I said, the test is very sensitive to false negatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by krazykirb View Post
    In 2015 I overhauled 59 saxes, 67 in 2016 and I've done 26 this year. For those who are players, how many saxes have you overhauled? Just last week alone, I through out four mouthpieces that came in the instruments that were purchased, each was cracked at the shank lengthwise. But maybe you're not familiar with this scenario since you don't work on saxes like I do.
    Why should I be familiar with cracked mouthpieces? None of mine have cracked in 45+ years of playing. None.

    Quote Originally Posted by krazykirb View Post
    So while you want to come on the forum AND TYPE IN ALL CAPS BECAUSE YOU'RE A DRAMA QUEEN, please save your comments. You can heed or not heed the next idea but don't put it down.
    All caps on the occasional word is for EMPHASIS. Sheesh...

    Check your meds.
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

    As a Veteran for Peace, I am already against the next war.

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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    67 overhauls in one year? Let's see Matt Stohrer do that!
    1936 Conn 10M tenor, 1941 Buescher "Big B" alto, 1917 Conn curved soprano

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by buddy lee View Post
    I do not have a leak light. What should I buy?

    Bestest DIY leak light (if I do say so myself!) - 8-bulb flexible LED USB light, $5: 9' USB cable, $6: USB wall adapter, $4. I've had this configuration now for a couple of years so the prices may vary. All bought off Amazon...

    Very versatile, very bright, puts light right where you want it and takes up very little space! I'm too lazy to solder something together and of the rope lights I could find, I was not impressed with the light output. This little get up will blind you if you shine it directly in your eyes. Room need not be too dark!

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    Thanks I just ordered everything you listed!

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    well one of the ones I suggested was $12 and the other one $15. Both came already mounted and ready to go.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  14. #33
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    Yes but the difference is I'll have this stuff today instead of 1-2 weeks. All good.

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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Gotta love Amazon Prime, eh?

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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Found two very slight leaks on this horn, the bottom of low C and low D toward the inside of top/inside of the horn. With very firm pressure they go away, but they're there. Also, I noticed that after playing for maybe 20 minutes I'm able to subtone with (mostly) no issues. Do pads swell after playing for a bit? If so, maybe that would explain why?

    And basically, I paid like $12 for this leak light because I'm using my iPhone power adaptor to power it. If anyone wants links to exactly what I bought, let me know.
    "Can't never could."

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by buddy lee View Post
    Found two very slight leaks on this horn, the bottom of low C and low D toward the inside of top/inside of the horn.
    That could well be the problem. And you were able to find a couple of leaks in the horn with a $12 leak light, yet your tech couldn't find them!? Man, if sounds like you need to look for a new tech, unless something is missing from this story.

  18. #37
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by buddy lee View Post
    Found two very slight leaks on this horn, the bottom of low C and low D toward the inside of top/inside of the horn. With very firm pressure they go away, but they're there. Also, I noticed that after playing for maybe 20 minutes I'm able to subtone with (mostly) no issues. Do pads swell after playing for a bit? If so, maybe that would explain why?

    And basically, I paid like $12 for this leak light because I'm using my iPhone power adaptor to power it. If anyone wants links to exactly what I bought, let me know.
    Cool! I've just found some leaks with the G keys and left hand F. But, then, I've been meaning to get it to a tech for the last month. So! Can't blame my leaks on my tech. It's just due for a good regulation so I can ppp the low B and Bb!

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by buddy lee View Post
    Found two very slight leaks on this horn, the bottom of low C and low D toward the inside of top/inside of the horn. With very firm pressure they go away, but they're there. Also, I noticed that after playing for maybe 20 minutes I'm able to subtone with (mostly) no issues. Do pads swell after playing for a bit? If so, maybe that would explain why?

    And basically, I paid like $12 for this leak light because I'm using my iPhone power adaptor to power it. If anyone wants links to exactly what I bought, let me know.
    Should have done the suction test...

    Congrats on troubleshooting your problem!
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

    As a Veteran for Peace, I am already against the next war.

  20. #39

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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    Quote Originally Posted by JL View Post
    That could well be the problem. And you were able to find a couple of leaks in the horn with a $12 leak light, yet your tech couldn't find them!? Man, if sounds like you need to look for a new tech, unless something is missing from this story.
    I dunno, everyone has off days and makes mistakes. If the tech corrects the leaks (permanently, not just clamping the keys), I would cut him/her some slack.

  21. #40
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    Default Re: Subtoning difficult on a horn

    some pads do swell once the water vapor condenses on them after a bit of playing, although most pads these days have some waterproofing outside or inside or both.

    Also, depending on the pad, there are several materials inside which might react to compression or swelling under humidity. A pad would generally harden over time though.

    There are so many types of pads.

    Anyway leaks which disappear with a gorilla grip are still not acceptable because even if you were able to memorize the strength you need to use all the time when playing those notes, this would certainly slow you down. Ideally a saxophone needs to close with a light touch.

    In the end it is all a matter of having the right materials, possessing the proper skills and spending enough time to address any issue prior to releasing a horn. Unfortunately, under the constraints of time, for example, some techs cut corners.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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