Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

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  1. #1
    twocircles's Avatar
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    Default Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    Has anyone had experience with the Keilwerth ST series, also designated ST1100?

    http://www.julius-keilwerth.com/en/i...ents/sopranos/

    Superficially, it appears to be an ST90, where they have dropped the 90. I assume that they are still made for Keilwerth by KHS (Jupiter). While I've never really followed Jupiter's offerings, they seem to have simplified their soprano line to just two models the JSS1100 and the JSS1000.

    Becasue of Keilwerth's 1100 designation, one might assume the Keilwerth ST1100 and the Jupiter JSS1100 were unabashedly the same model, however, the JSS1100 is keyed to high-G and has adjustable palm keys. The ST is more like the JSS1000, which does not have adjustable palm keys but is still keyed to high-G. The Keilwerth is keyed to high-F#, which is generally an advantage in my book, especially in a less expensive horn. The Jupiters and the Keilwerth are not identical in any way that I can tell.

    It seems like the competition has made the Taiwan-based manufacturers try to improve their offerings in recent years. I wonder if KHS has improved.

    I can only find the ST for sale online in Spain, I think, and IF the prices are correct, the Keilwerth is selling for a few hundred dollar less than the price of the Jupiters. If those prices are correct, the Keilwerth may be a good buy if the build and sound quality are up to snuff. It may also indicate that Keilwerth may not be using KHS to manufacture the ST.

    I wish that Keilwerth would release another model in the ST series, the ST1000 or something, even cheaper of course , that uses some of the same philosophy with the ST as they did with the soprano SX90 series, not the bore or customized key work necessarily. Leave the neck resonance chamber alone, fixed with no internal seams in the most important part the sax, and keyed to high-F# with a front upper octave key. It could be the same octave key mechanism as the ST only with a one-piece sax.

    As much as I would like to consider any SX90 series for my next soprano, as an amateur, in all likelihood, I am going to have to go with a student horn, like the ST, or perhaps an older, used instrument.
    Last edited by twocircles; 05-19-2017 at 10:23 PM.
    Soprano: New soprano coming soon; Alto: Noblet "Face" model (Beaugnier ?);
    Vintage C-Mel Tenor project: Evette-Schaeffer, Buffet-Crampon Clarinet: Yamaha

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    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    Often some models are only branded with a certain model number in certain countries. I suppose this is the case.

    As opposed to any new saxophone buying a secondhand one will yield way more and cost way less.

    I’ve sold recently a Toneking soprano and a SX90 III they were all way better than any ST could be.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    I owned the ST 90 and every time I performed with it the upper stack got bent out of shape.

    Better off with an Antigua or used JK.
    �We are what we repeatedly do.
    Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.�
    ~Aristotle

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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    Thanks, Milandro, you know I wanted that Toneking.

    This is what i was talking about, but maybe your browser in Europe won't go here.

    http://www.julius-keilwerth.com/en/i...ents/sopranos/

    I started looking for a friend with a high-school aged son who was wanting a soprano when I ran into this. I think people expect to find something like a soprano version of the ubiquitous YAS-23, a decent student horn and consistent performer at a really low cost. There is just not one.
    Soprano: New soprano coming soon; Alto: Noblet "Face" model (Beaugnier ?);
    Vintage C-Mel Tenor project: Evette-Schaeffer, Buffet-Crampon Clarinet: Yamaha

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    Forum Contributor 2017 BrianMitchellBrody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    You can pick up a one piece Antigua Winds for around 400. I have one from 1995 that is a great little soprano. A CNC copy of the Yani S 900. I paid $360.
    �We are what we repeatedly do.
    Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.�
    ~Aristotle

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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMitchellBrody View Post
    I owned the ST 90 and every time I performed with it the upper stack got bent out of shape.

    Better off with an Antigua or used JK.
    I came here specifically to make the same comment.
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    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    In my opinion you should look for a Yamaha 475 or a Yanagisawa secondhand.

    Easily the best sopranos around. The 475 is a little cheaper. I have, incidentally a Yanagisawa S900.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    I'll stick up for Jupiter soprani. I've had an 847 w/sterling necks and now have a 747. I haven't experienced the bending problem. Both horns seem sturdy and play very well. I don't know about newer models but we have seen better quality coming out of Taiwan as time relentlessly grinds on.

    If you can swing a Yani or mid level Yamaha, I have no reason to doubt that Milandro is correct. I know we agree when it comes to buying recent Asian instruments. Buy 'em used or be prepared for the depreciation if you want to move it.

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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    Deleted: off-topic.
    Last edited by twocircles; 05-15-2017 at 07:18 PM.
    Soprano: New soprano coming soon; Alto: Noblet "Face" model (Beaugnier ?);
    Vintage C-Mel Tenor project: Evette-Schaeffer, Buffet-Crampon Clarinet: Yamaha

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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    Deleted: off-topic
    Last edited by twocircles; 05-15-2017 at 07:17 PM.
    Soprano: New soprano coming soon; Alto: Noblet "Face" model (Beaugnier ?);
    Vintage C-Mel Tenor project: Evette-Schaeffer, Buffet-Crampon Clarinet: Yamaha

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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    None of us, so far, has claimed to have played one of the newly designated models, so we really do not know by experience what the quality of this saxophone is. We only have experience with past ST90 series models and other KHS products. Those posting here have dismissed the current ST series out-of-hand, at least, the sopranos, based on those past experiences.

    One has to question the wisdom of Keilwerth offering a line of saxes of such dubious quality, even as a student line. The Big Four are the Big Four, after all, primarily because of reputation. While the intent of offering a low-cost student line has merit, it seems to me that Keilwerth on the whole damages their reputation by offering a line of reportedly poor quality even if it is at a low price. Does the new ST break this pattern?

    One also has to question if their relationship with KHS has yielded such poor results why they continue. Perhaps other makers charge too much to be competitive in the student market. Neither H. Selmer, Yamaha nor Yanagisawa offer true student sopranos and primarily have invested their resources in quality, professional saxes. This cannot be a huge market or income flow for Keilwerth. It seems they should give it up or do it well with a reputable product that drops the sullied ST models, at least, the sopranos. IMO.
    Last edited by twocircles; 05-20-2017 at 12:28 PM.
    Soprano: New soprano coming soon; Alto: Noblet "Face" model (Beaugnier ?);
    Vintage C-Mel Tenor project: Evette-Schaeffer, Buffet-Crampon Clarinet: Yamaha

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    Default Re: Keilwerth ST 1100 soprano

    I have started seeing more Keilwerth ST sopranos in online stores. Again, one has to wonder what their target market is. Obviously, it is the student market. But why?

    They are priced nearly $1000 lower than a new YSS475 and about the same as a new Selmer (USA, made in Asia) SS600 and a little less than the street price of new Jupiters.

    I guess it doesn't cost them much in terms of cash flow. They get orders and direct then to their Asian manufacturer (presumably still KHS) who fills the order. It makes sense cash-wise.

    The real cost is in reputation. Selmer (USA) only rides on the coattails their French cousin, Henri Selmer, who remains aloof from anything Selmer USA does. By most accounts, the SS600 is solidly built and if re-padded and setup correctly is a surprisingly good bargain-for-the-price instrument.

    The YSS475 is marketed as an intermediate model, but many like it as well as other Yamaha models. Yamaha doesn't really have a student-level soprano.

    Accounts here of the ST90 and lower-end KHS Jupiters are pretty negative and certainly less competitive than other offerings from Taiwan. Yet, there is no fanfare from Keilwerth that this is a newly designed instrument or new manufacturing techniques (new manufacturer or better quality than the past).

    The ST soprano offering also seems to miss the boutique sax market that Asian stencils have created usually by offering a lot of bang for the buck.

    The perception is that they apparently have just cleaned up the naming and are still offering the same poorly made sax they always have. If that is true, it was a real missed opportunity. Except for the ST series, Keilwerth has the name and reputation to dominate both the student and possibly boutique markets. Make a rugged, asian-made, student-level to intermediate horns that fit Keilwerth's design and sound philosophy, maybe even near copies of base level horns or their bores, and sell the heck out of them.

    Keilwerth may totally disagree these assessments in this thread, but they should take them into consideration as data points.

    I would really love to hear from someone that has played one of the newly designated models.
    Last edited by twocircles; 05-20-2017 at 12:38 PM.
    Soprano: New soprano coming soon; Alto: Noblet "Face" model (Beaugnier ?);
    Vintage C-Mel Tenor project: Evette-Schaeffer, Buffet-Crampon Clarinet: Yamaha

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