Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

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  1. #1

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    Default Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    I believe these pieces were his first design under his own name. Hard rubber, clam shell baffle. Kind of scarce. But I figured if anyone knew where I might find one, it would be someone on this forum.

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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    They must be rare..I have never seen one. If you get one post a pic.
    Phil-Tone Custom Woodwinds
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    Forum Contributor 2011 Bob M's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    Are you sure that you aren't thinking about Arnold Brilhart? He did make HR mouthpieces with a "calm shell" baffle. I own a "Designed by Arnold Brilhart" for tenor. Zoot Sims played a Brilhart HR for most of his career.
    “You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.”

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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    Here is the SR HR. It is the closest thing I've seen to a Supersonic. Same blank, and with more of a focus on the roll-over closer to the tip. What is intriguing to me is the mill marks on the table. It appears as though it received a facing outside of the Babbitt factory with a different milling pattern on the table. The rails seem to be thinner than other versions of this blank. At around .080" it plays fairly well for a smaller tip opening. I haven't yet decided to sell this one because of the good "bone structure" it has. I have seen other iterations of this blank with similar potential so I'm not sure this one has any special Santy clause.
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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    Thanks for your response Toc. Lots of good info that you've provided. I had no idea it was from a supersonic blank. You mention other iterations of this blank that you've seen similar to this SR. Any additional light you could shed on the piece and similar variants would be very helpful.

    I have this mp with a doc tenney reface with a tip opening of .98 and I really love the sound I'm getting from it. The baffle shape looks just like yours. Unfortunately, the tip has a chip in it and the dental gunk that a different refacer used to repair it is gradually coming apart.

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    TOcchiuto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    If you can add photos of this piece that would help. I am interested in how Doc Tenney finished it.

    I have seen so many variations of this blank. Brilhart, Buescher, Babbitt Artist, Selmer Elkhart New York, Babbitt Supreme, Whitehall, Frank Kaspar any many others I'm forgetting about. SOTW members Racketysax and MOJO can probably add a few more brand stencils of this same blank. The exterior is not always the same, but the internal dimensions all seem to be the similar. Large chambers with varying roll-over baffle sizes, but most importantly the right side of the floor going into a round chamber is bulgy. It's probably a trivial factor, but I prefer the floor to be even going into the chamber, and this work can be cumbersome. I have done varying styles of baffle shapes depending on material available, and player preferences.

    A while back I sold a Selmer Elkhart version of this blank to a great player in Las Vegas named Rusty Blevins, which I regret. This one had the most material I've seen of this blank, and a longer shank. The shorter shank of these pieces can be a tuning problem depending on shank diameter. My guess is that this piece had very crude finishing work out of the Babbitt factory, and therefore had "good bones" for a reface. It ended up playing with more power than many expensive vintage pieces. 95% of these blanks have had the baffles completely removed at the factory. These are great for players who prefer lower baffles, but tend to have less guts IMO.
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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    Here are some pics....
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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    ... a couple more.
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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    Thanks for your run down on the various iterations of this blank. Very helpful.

    I'm assuming that you mean the length of the shank, not diameter, when you refer to tuning problems?

    As you've pointed out, it seems like the vast majority of these differently branded blanks have very little material for the baffle. I suspect what makes this Runyon version so much fun to play is the prominent shape of the baffle near the tip combined with the large chamber and heavily scooped sidewalls. On my 10E version, it appears as though Doc further accentuated the baffle by removing material on the floor directly behind the clam shell shaped baffle.

    It's wild that you're able to open these pieces up as much as you do TOcchiuto. How do you do this and still maintain the relationship of the tip to the baffle? Am a correct in assuming you start with a bias butt cut as MOJO demo's here...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ3Q8VJ8IWo

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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    Here's an article that talks a lot about this common Babbitt mouthpiece. I have a Dukoff version, two Selmer versions, and several no-name variations. The Dukoff I left alone (because of it's collector value). The no names are (were) cheap and common, so I did several different lays on them, including copying the Dukoff lay. I just gave a box of them to a friend to try out. He immediately put on the Dukoff and played it all night. It will be interesting to see what he thinks of the Dukoff once he tries the other pieces made from the same Babbitt blank.

    I prefer several of the others, but the name Dukoff makes me want to take that one out of the house. It's the old "what's that mouthpiece?" "Oh, it's a Dukoff fluted chamber 5 star. I have one and you don't." I don't say the last sentence out loud, but it's implied.

    The picture of the shank above shows one of the differences between the basic blank and the fancier finishes. The back of the table has been canted as much as is possible without taking the table out onto the shank. That does a couple of good things if you are trying to produce a livelier piece.

    I've started using a cheap caliper to give me a map of the beak thickness before I decide whether a standard blank can be improved (improvement being subjective). Some blanks simply don't have enough material in the right places to make the necessary modifications.

    Mark

  13. #11

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    Default Re: Looking for a Santy Runyon HR tenor mouthpiece

    I wouldn't be surprised if that canted table was Doc Tenney's doing instead of being original to the SR piece. This would be consistent with what I have seen of Doc Tenney's refaces. It's hard to judge from his last pic posted, but it doesn't look like TOc's version has as much finishing on the back of the table.

    I was unaware the that the fluted chamber Dukoff was from this very same blank. I know of players who have the flutes cut out of those pieces to make them play better, lol. I've always been under the impression that it was the Zimberoff version of this blank that fetched the highest dollar. Does the Dukoff fluted chamber have a pronounced, arc'ed baffle towards the tip?

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