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Guidance on my search for the perfect tenor mouthpiece

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#1 ·
Hello!

I've been debating whether to ask some questions I have. If some of these things have already been answered in other threads I want to apologize in advance, and if you could direct me there I would greatly appreciate it. I'm mostly just looking for advice. A lot of you have answered many of my questions and I'm most likely disregarding your answers. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. But I think I'm pretty sure that I'm close to knowing what I want.

Now, as you'll read from the title I am in search of the best possible mouthpiece for me. I've narrowed my choices down to the Otto Link mouthpiece family (what a surprise right?). As of now the most comfortable mouthpiece I have owned is a stock Link "New vintage" slant HR 7* on my Selmer Mark VI. As good as this piece is I feel as though there is something missing... I've been able to play some vintage links, both HR and metal and they just have this whole different vibe to them in my opinion. I'm most interested in the vintage Double Ring, and the vintage Slant HR mouthpieces.

I recently came across what seemed to me to be a very good example of a double ring worth buying on ebay. It was an original 5* owned by saxophonist Skip Gailes. I chatted quite a bit with him and said I would buy it later this week, but I was too late and somebody got it before me (should I try to hunt them down and buy it back Lol?). I got a hold of Skip and he let me know that he had one other mouthpiece as good as his double ring, a HR Florida Slant link original 5*. He kindly told me today that he's sending it to me in the mail tomorrow to try and that I can return it to him if I don't like it!!! And I have this feeling that I will completely love this HR Link. But I'm still quite interested in a really good Double Ring.

I guess my questions are: How much is too much? Should try to get an original facing or one that had been refaced? Should I get a small tip like a 5* or look for an original 7? If I get a 5* should I get it refaced to a larger tip?

I've also considered having Sakshama make me a custom Sterling Silver double ring, but I don't know if I should get a real one or his. I have experience with his pieces, but not sure how they compare to the real deal. Sakshama gets back from vacation in April, so I could get his Double Ring or in the mean time search for a real one.

Playing this Slant from Skip and a really great Double Ring I think would really answer some of my greatest questions about mouthpieces. But I just don't know where to start on a double ring... they are all priced so differently and every single one is the holy grail, ya know? I'm pretty sad I missed Skip's Ring because I just knew it was a good piece... he played it for 20 years 6 days a week. Talk about good mojo.

Here are a couple examples of pieces I've considered, what are your opinions?

-http://hornedtoadmusic.com/otto-link-fl-double-ring-original-7-tenor-mint-treasure/#.WKLKRW8rKpo Assuming this will be expensive, but is it all it's cracked up to be?

-http://www.saxalley.com/otto-link-vintage-florida-metal-tenor-mouthpiece-2663.html An example of a refaced ring

-http://www.ebay.com/itm/122330234948?ul_noapp=true This was Skip's mouthpiece... I'm so sorry I missed it

Thanks! This is quite the puzzle I know... but maybe you guys can assist me in solving it.

-John Swendseid
 
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#2 ·
The purchase of a new horn (SBA Tenor) prompted me to reevaluate my set up and after 25yrs of professional playing on a STM 7* I switched to a HR Morgan 8 Large chamber. This piece is amazing, responsive through out the range, pp-ff, no problem. Not to mention it very comfortable in the mouth. I was concerned about switching and how it would effect my sound. I found the Morgan allows me to get my sound easier. These are are handmade, high quality mpcs at a reasonable price...Sorry sounds like I'm ranting here...definitely worth checking out IMHO. Good luck.
 
#3 ·
This is a bit zen-like, but only YOU can find your perfect mouthpiece. When you ask this forum "what should I get?" , you'll just get everyone elses opinion on their favorite mouthpiece that works for them. You may find your perfect piece until next week when it's no longer the best thing in the world. Good luck, Godspeed.
 
#4 ·
Hello!

I've been debating whether to ask some questions I have. If some of these things have already been answered in other threads I want to apologize in advance, and if you could direct me there I would greatly appreciate it. I'm mostly just looking for advice. A lot of you have answered many of my questions and I'm most likely disregarding your answers. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. But I think I'm pretty sure that I'm close to knowing what I want.

Now, as you'll read from the title I am in search of the best possible mouthpiece for me. I've narrowed my choices down to the Otto Link mouthpiece family (what a surprise right?). As of now the most comfortable mouthpiece I have owned is a stock Link "New vintage" slant HR 7* on my Selmer Mark VI. As good as this piece is I feel as though there is something missing... I've been able to play some vintage links, both HR and metal and they just have this whole different vibe to them in my opinion. I'm most interested in the vintage Double Ring, and the vintage Slant HR mouthpieces.

I recently came across what seemed to me to be a very good example of a double ring worth buying on ebay. It was an original 5* owned by saxophonist Skip Gailes. I chatted quite a bit with him and said I would buy it later this week, but I was too late and somebody got it before me (should I try to hunt them down and buy it back Lol?). I got a hold of Skip and he let me know that he had one other mouthpiece as good as his double ring, a HR Florida Slant link original 5*. He kindly told me today that he's sending it to me in the mail tomorrow to try and that I can return it to him if I don't like it!!! And I have this feeling that I will completely love this HR Link. But I'm still quite interested in a really good Double Ring.

I guess my questions are: How much is too much? Should try to get an original facing or one that had been refaced? Should I get a small tip like a 5* or look for an original 7? If I get a 5* should I get it refaced to a larger tip?

I've also considered having Sakshama make me a custom Sterling Silver double ring, but I don't know if I should get a real one or his. I have experience with his pieces, but not sure how they compare to the real deal. Sakshama gets back from vacation in April, so I could get his Double Ring or in the mean time search for a real one.

Playing this Slant from Skip and a really great Double Ring I think would really answer some of my greatest questions about mouthpieces. But I just don't know where to start on a double ring... they are all priced so differently and every single one is the holy grail, ya know? I'm pretty sad I missed Skip's Ring because I just knew it was a good piece... he played it for 20 years 6 days a week. Talk about good mojo.

Here are a couple examples of pieces I've considered, what are your opinions?

-http://hornedtoadmusic.com/otto-link-fl-double-ring-original-7-tenor-mint-treasure/#.WKLKRW8rKpo Assuming this will be expensive, but is it all it's cracked up to be?

-http://www.saxalley.com/otto-link-vintage-florida-metal-tenor-mouthpiece-2663.html An example of a refaced ring

-http://www.ebay.com/itm/122330234948?ul_noapp=true This was Skip's mouthpiece... I'm so sorry I missed it

Thanks! This is quite the puzzle I know... but maybe you guys can assist me in solving it.

-John Swendseid
John, May I ask why you are focusing on a Double ring or Slant? They are the two most expensive vintage models out there. I really hope you are not equating expensive with the best. Finding the right mouthpiece for you is a personal match. I have played 1000 dollar plus mouthpiece that were not even close to being for me. I have also played 100 dollar mouthpieces that I was surprised by and felt were a perfect match. The cost and rarity of a mouthpiece has nothing to do with how it will be perfect for you. You might get lucky but the chances are higher that you will be disappointed. Especially if you are putting all your hopes and money into one purchase. I would just keep that in mind. I myself don't buy original links unless I talk to the player (like you did with Skip) and get a personal affirmation that the piece is "killer". Even then, I have bought pieces that I found far less than "killer" and had to have refaced afterward.

PS. As I side note, I never buy brand new looking Links in their original facing because my first thought is "If this mouthpiece is so kick*** why does it look like no one has ever played it" I'll leave that for the collectors out there. I like the ones that look as ugly as possible because I know some player played that piece to death because it was awesome..........
 
#10 ·
I've been able to play a few of the double ring and slant mouthpieces briefly and they just sounded so awesome. I'm by no means making the assumption that expensive is good, I love my modern HR Link. But it's the same concept that I just discovered with saxophones. My new Mark VI vs my Yamaha 82ZII is no comparison the VI is comfortable, amazing sound etc. But that doesn't make the 82ZII bad horn do you see my thinking? Thanks for your advice I will keep it in mind during my search!
 
#6 ·
I agree with Sacks of Phones and Neff. You really need to try before you buy. Especially at this price range. I also agree with click about Saxscape pieces. They are great and not that expensive. The Sakshama pieces are also really good. If you really want a double ring piece I would go with his. I think he will also make any adjustments you want after receiving the piece but I doubt you'll need that. Also, look at Ted Klum pieces. A friend of mine loves them.
 
#7 ·
Should try to get an original facing or one that had been refaced?
Do not buy second hand refaced mouthpieces. You're basically inheriting someone else's mistake and they will be hard to unload when they don't work out for you. Take what you don't use and offer it in trade or sell it outright. Then pick up a mouthpiece you're interested in on the second hand market, but only those that are unaltered. That way if they don't work out for you, you can resell or trade them for the value paid if you're unable to return them outright. This is not the quick and easy process, but over time you'll get to experience a variety of options without losing a lot of money doing so. Of my alto, tenor, bari and soprano mouthpieces of choice, three out of four of them were picked up on this very site using this process some years ago. And yes... Years ago. You find your match and you stick with it. No need to stay on the mouthpiece merry-go-round.
 
#8 ·
I guess my questions are: How much is too much? Should try to get an original facing or one that had been refaced? Should I get a small tip like a 5* or look for an original 7? If I get a 5* should I get it refaced to a larger tip?
If you are not yet settled on tip opening, then you are certainly not in a good position to jump on the vintage mouthpiece merry-go-'round. Similarly, if you don't yet know whether you want a Slant or a Florida, it is silly to consider dropping a kilodollar on a "vintage" mouthpiece. FWIW, I played through a case of Florida STMs at Ponti's, and there were a great many that were not good playing mouthpieces - and now they would draw top dollar if still original.

I've also considered having Sakshama make me a custom Sterling Silver double ring, but I don't know if I should get a real one or his. I have experience with his pieces, but not sure how they compare to the real deal. Sakshama gets back from vacation in April, so I could get his Double Ring or in the mean time search for a real one.
Why go silver? That's just adding more money to an uncertain purchase. On the other hand, if I were committed to having Sakshama make me a piece, I, too, would go silver. But I don't know which of his models I would buy...

You will likely not Nail the Grail on this quest, unless you are ready to commit to whatever you get and MAKE it your #1.

Since you have some experience with Sakshama, I'd suggest you wait 'til you can TALK with him, and sort out what you need.

G'luck.
 
#11 ·
FWIW, the classic pairing with a Mk VI tenor is a 7* Otto Link.

I'd either go with a Phil-Tone "Tribute" or Sakshama "Double Ring" - I've played both and they are excellent.

If you are already playing a 7*, why would you chase a 5*? Are you changing concept?
 
#13 ·
I tried to quote your other post but it went wrong lol.

I'm certain that 7* is my tip opening. I just want to know what it's like to play on a vintage 5* opening. Lots of people have said that the original 5* play really good and differently (in a good way).

I've played Phil's mosaic but never given his tribute a good try. And I know Sakshamas pieces are killer for sure I've owned 2 so far in tips I don't like 6* and 8*. That's sort of how I discovered 7* is the one for me. But even Sakshama himself tells me an original 5 ring will play way different than his ring even though they are so close. And I've been interested ever since =)
 
#12 · (Edited)
In reference to what Dr G said:

I was asking about the tips because some come as original 5* some come as original 7. I prefer a 7-7* tip opening, but yesterday Skip talked about how if you get used to the smaller 5* you can do a lot more with it. He said you have to loosen your embouchure and that it helps with dedicating yourself to the mouthpiece. Also that is my dilemma I don't want to get a terrible mouthpiece like you say I'm just so sorry I missed Skip's double ring. The reason I mentioned a Slant is because I'm getting one to try in the mail right so that will either be on or off my list.

I already have owned Sakshamas Double Ring but it was in an 8* facing and slightly too big for me. He already had it made so I figured I'd give it a try and it was awesome, but had to work too hard. I've pretty much nailed down that 7* is the best tip for me, but I hear the original 5 openings are really good players sometimes. So other than my query about the small tip I'm positive the next mouthpiece I were to get from Sakshama would be sterling silver.
 
#14 ·
I was asking about the tips because some come as original 5* some come as original 7. I prefer a 7-7* tip opening, but yesterday Skip talked about how if you get used to the smaller 5* you can do a lot more with it. He said you have to loosen your embouchure and that it helps with dedicating yourself to the mouthpiece.
Committing is good advice. "More with a 5*" is less objective - that'll depend on what direction you want to take it. I've recently gone from a .115 to a .100, and like what I'm getting, but changes will always include some compromise. It just depends on your concept, and what you want out of a piece for your circumstances.

I already have owned his Double Ring but it was in an 8* facing and slightly too big for me. He already had it made so I figured I'd give it a try and it was awesome, but had to work too hard. I've pretty much nailed down that 7* is the best tip for me, but I hear the original 5 openings are really good players sometimes. So other than my query about the small tip I'm positive the next mouthpiece I were to get from Sakshama would be sterling silver.
.105 vs .080 is a Substantial Change. Unless something is really driving you to revisit your approach to tenor, I would stick with the 7*, and ask Sakshama to make you a nice one. Yeah, in silver... I think that's the way to go because there is no questioning of what happens when the facing is finished - no more polishing, no plating. It is left in it final perfected state.
 
#25 ·
I've finally looked into the Ted Klum pieces and they look great! However at some those prices I figure I may as well buy a vintage mouthpiece or the Sakshama. Any experiences with the Focustone or his Florida model? These are the mouthpieces I'm considering right now:

-Sakshama Ring 7*

-Phil-tone Tribute 7*

-Ted Klum Florida or focustone 7*

-modern Otto Link NY Bob Carpenter reface 7*

I have a few mouthpieces on the way to me right now as well:

-Otto Link Millennium 7* apparently refaced by merlin (I have no idea how this would compare the bob carpenter refaced link)

-Otto Link Florida slant HR 5* If I like this piece would it be worth opening it up? Skip said he'd sell it to me for $700
 
#26 ·
-Otto Link Florida slant HR 5* If I like this piece would it be worth opening it up? Skip said he'd sell it to me for $700
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

If you like the piece, don't change it. If you don't like it, sell it.
 
#41 ·
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Phil would NEVER steer the OP towards a museum-quality $1300 piece when he is still so far from having his equipment needs figured out.

FWIW I've played pretty much all of Phil's tenor pieces and I think either a Tribute or an Intrepid in a 6*-7* range would be the OPs best bet. The Intrepid in particular really has a lot going on in the sound department.
 
#44 ·
That's all I've ever played and I am not investing time in other brands. I want the best possible Otto Link I can find, I'm very serious about my playing at this time. My plan is to play professionally in the next few years... all of my idols play these mouthpieces and have great results. So why can't I? Also a lot of people don't realize how easy it is to try mouthpieces in Montana...
 
#58 ·
links are excellent; for my tenor I started on 6* link STM then bought an 8*; played each for six months or so; for me the 6* sounds better; still using vandoren java green 2 1/2 reeds + rovner lig works well

on a side note I find it odd that metal mps are too bright for my liking for alto, while the opposite is true on tenor; hard rubber tenor mps I find don't have as strong, smooth tone as do the metal STMs. focusing more on learning w/long tones vs chasing lots of diff mps
 
#59 ·
links are excellent; for my tenor I started on 6* link STM then bought an 8*; played each for six months or so; for me the 6* sounds better; still using vandoren java green 2 1/2 reeds + rovner lig works well

on a side note I find it odd that metal mps are too bright for my liking for alto, while the opposite is true on tenor; hard rubber tenor mps I find don't have as strong, smooth tone as do the metal STMs. focusing more on learning w/long tones vs chasing lots of diff mps
Do you suppose the slimmer profile of the metal pieces matching your alto chops is a factor, or not?
 
#63 ·
I just got the hard Rubber link from Skip... I have never played a mouthpiece so amazing in my life!! I'm using Rico Royal 3.5s and it's so awesome and expressive. I don't have to fight the mouthpiece.

I will be doing a comparison on autumn leaves between about 4 mouthpieces hopefully by Wednesday.
 
#65 ·
Is there such a thing, perfect mouthpiece, lol. For me its close on my Andy Sheppard tenor piece. Always looked for that combo of a Link type core yet Guardala ease and power. This piece does that so i'm happy. For now, ha.
 
#70 ·
Hey guys! Sorry about my little hiatus I kinda forgot about SOTW for a while there.

To address the curious minds the STM is fantastic!! What a wonderful mouthpiece. I don't like the original Otto Link lig so I'm using a Selmer 404, and w/ #4 Rico Royal reeds.

I want to stress some important thing I've learned. Mouthpieces do not give you chops that comes from practicing a LOT, but a really good one could help you achieve your goals or give you a slight advantage. There's only one life what's worth it to you is worth it in my opinion. I personally believe some old expensive links have a mysteriousness to them, but then there's people who could make a copy of something like that for you. Sakshama's mouthpieces for example are are so close to the real thing its not even funny and for a fraction of the cost. I bought one of his 7* Sterling Silver Rings used and it is amazing with #3.5 Rico Royals and Selmer 404 lig.

I'm still not content on my mouthpiece yet. Ever since I purchased my Selmer Mark VI I have not looked back or had a single second thought on any other Tenor. I'm in love with Daddario Royal reeds. But I still just haven't made my choice on a mouthpiece that I want to spend all of my time on. I'm really not a fan of hard rubber mouthpieces I've decided. I own a Phil-tone Sappire and Intrepid and an EB HR Florida and none of them do it for me. The two best mouthpieces I've played are that 5* Florida STM and the 7* Sakshama Ring which are both amazing but very different.

There are maybe 3 more mouthpieces that I'm curious try before I make my decision: Sakshama TM (on the way in .103), Sakshama Guardala MBII or MB, and maybe a Bob Carpenter refaced modern link in 7*. I'm really close I think.

One of these days I'll post clip of me playing to give everyone an idea of where I'm at. I actually memorize my first tune ever! the whole form, all the changes, the head. And man after the first one the just keep coming even easier and quicker. It's an amazing feeling to actually be playing music and actually I can do it quite easily on any mouthpiece I just have to pick one...

Thanks!

John
 
#71 ·
#4 Rico Royal reeds.

I'm really not a fan of hard rubber mouthpieces I've decided. I own a Phil-tone Sappire and Intrepid and an EB HR Florida and none of them do it for me.
Why such a hard reed?!

Before passing judgement on some great mpcs, you might try a slightly softer reed. A #4 reed is sort of like playing a 2x4. I realize some players do use such hard reeds, but they've probably settled on a mpc (likely a rather small tip one) and have spent considerable time coming to such a decision. In any case, just out of curiosity, do you have a reason for using such an extreme strength reed?

I guess what I'm saying is that it's a good idea to avoid extreme set ups as a relative beginner.
 
#73 ·
There are many more parts to this issue than most probably realize, and there are some questions you need to ask yourself and quite a bit of reflection and introspection to do for the sake of truthfully answering each of those questions:

1) What is your sound? What do you naturally sound like without trying to sound any particular way, what do you currently tend to sound like with effort, and what do you want to sound like? All of these questions should have different answers, but they will help clear up exactly which direction you need to go in to achieve what you want. How would you describe your most natural sound? Is there a lot of core, or is it more diffuse? Is it more directional or is it a wider, more spread sound? Is it aggressive or mellow in presentation?

2) What is your approach to embouchure? Are you one of those guys who finds it easier to use small tip openings and hard reeds, or big tips with soft reeds, or somewhere in between? Forget about sound while answering this question, and just focus on what feels the most comfortable to you. Do you prefer to take in a lot of mouthpiece or just a little? Do you tuck your lip over the bottom teeth, does your bottom lip jut out completely, or somewhere in between? Do you bite or are you completely loose, or somewhere in between? I don't see biting as a real problem (I know most teachers will disagree with me, but I know many players who make it work wonderfully for them) unless you're doing it to the extent of damaging your lower lip, and as much as everyone probably hates to admit it, we all bite at least a LITTLE; no one is completely loose.

3) How do you prefer to blow? Do you naturally move tons of air in a wide column, or do you tend to blow in an ultra-focused, fast stream?

If you'd like, send me a PM with the answers to these questions, and I will gladly help to point you in the right direction. Matching mouthpieces to concepts and approaches is something that I'm quite good at.

If you'd rather figure it out yourself, you have my blessing and respect. Just try as many different pieces of equipment as you can, whether it's reeds, mouthpieces, ligatures, horns, etc., in as many different settings as you can for each combination. Even pieces of equipment that are the same make and model can sound and feel shockingly different, so don't rule a category out if you happen to play a bad one the first time. It's a slow and grueling process for all of us, but eventually it can become quite a bit of fun!

Whatever you choose to do, I wish you the best of luck!

Craig
 
#77 ·
There are many more parts to this issue than most probably realize, and there are some questions you need to ask yourself and quite a bit of reflection and introspection to do for the sake of truthfully answering each of those questions:

1) What is your sound? What do you naturally sound like without trying to sound any particular way, what do you currently tend to sound like with effort, and what do you want to sound like? All of these questions should have different answers, but they will help clear up exactly which direction you need to go in to achieve what you want. How would you describe your most natural sound? Is there a lot of core, or is it more diffuse? Is it more directional or is it a wider, more spread sound? Is it aggressive or mellow in presentation?

2) What is your approach to embouchure? Are you one of those guys who finds it easier to use small tip openings and hard reeds, or big tips with soft reeds, or somewhere in between? Forget about sound while answering this question, and just focus on what feels the most comfortable to you. Do you prefer to take in a lot of mouthpiece or just a little? Do you tuck your lip over the bottom teeth, does your bottom lip jut out completely, or somewhere in between? Do you bite or are you completely loose, or somewhere in between? I don't see biting as a real problem (I know most teachers will disagree with me, but I know many players who make it work wonderfully for them) unless you're doing it to the extent of damaging your lower lip, and as much as everyone probably hates to admit it, we all bite at least a LITTLE; no one is completely loose.

3) How do you prefer to blow? Do you naturally move tons of air in a wide column, or do you tend to blow in an ultra

Thank you for the information. I'll post a sound clip this weekend.
 
#76 ·
I own an STM and a Ring so they are part of my selection. Haven't ever tried a TM in 7* tip range and I'm still curious. I really like the sound of Michael Brecker and am trying to decide if that's the direction I want to go. It's not hard for me to sound the way I want on any mouthpiece, it's just a matter of which mouthpiece helps me get that sound out best and most easily. There's a method to my madness I promise... sometimes I just have to ask obvious questions and say things out loud.

Thanks!
 
#80 ·
Not half bad! You're certainly off to a great start. To my ears, it seemed like you were more comfortable with the Sakshama than the Link, which I'm thinking might be a facing issue with the Link more so than a tip opening comfort issue. You've already figured out how to shape the tone with your throat, so that's great! Aside from a few small control things and your slight hesitations/timidness with notes and phrasing, I actually really liked what I heard.

To me you sound more on the Dexter Gordon side of things. In the middle of focused and spread, leaning toward the dark side, with a not-too-overbearing amount of core. It's a good place to be. So I guess the next question you should ask yourself is, "Is that how I want to sound?"
 
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