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$1009! Most expensive eBay neck ever?

4K views 25 replies 9 participants last post by  milandro 
#1 ·
#2 ·
I don’t understand the problem. A Super 20 with a solid silver neck will be worth certainly a minimum of €3000 while one without a neck will be certainly worth a lot less than one with any neck, let alone a solid silver neck.

I too bought in Australia a solid silver King S20 neck a few years ago. The price that I paid, was in that region and they are very rare too, so it is not that there are so many people selling them.

Before of that I purchased a solid silver neck made by Karsten Gloger in the Netherlands made to fit precisely a King Super 20. It costed actually more and it certainly does now.
 
#4 ·
If not a bargain it is at the very list the price that such things cost.

Find me another or have another made! A Gloger neck costs €705 (underslung) + shipping and paypal fees, that is if you order directly, and it would take several months.

If you buy one through their agents might cost more, $926 to be precise.

A solid Silver neck by Keilwerth is about $930

https://www.kesslerandsons.com/product/keilwerth-tenor-sax-necks/

A solid silver neck by Yanagisawa is about $900

https://www.kesslerandsons.com/product/yanagisawa-solid-silver-tenor-sax-neck/

Selmer solid silver tenor neck, $1300.

https://www.kesslerandsons.com/product/selmer-paris-solid-silver-reference-tenor-sax-neck/

So what is there to complain about an original and rare neck for a King Super 20 for $1009?

In case one says that it is a secondhand item, well, it is not that you can walk in a shop and buy one off the shelf.
 
#8 ·
Silver is of course still more expensive than copper and I can imagine that it is more complicated to work on.

If you order a neck from Karsten Gloger the silver neck won`t be that much more expensive than one made of copper, roughly estimated 150€.

That silver does not resonate as well may just make the difference- think of the actual carbon fiber necks.

I like to use silver necks. For me they speak more directly and sound more even throughout registers, but that may be of course my very subjective taste.

And as milandro already stated: if you have a Super 20 with a missing neck there are enough reasons to pay a large amount for a matching one. The Instruments are more "special" so that you can`t use one of all the widely available selmerstyle makes.

Who would sell his Super 20 neck, if he still has the Super 20? :bluewink:
 
#9 ·
Not again!

Saxophones are not bells or cymbals so sound in not produced by the walls vibration, which, at best resonate with minute passive energy ( thousands of times less than anything meaningful) and don't resonate in any of their parts with any vibration meaningful to sound production and even if they did we have the neck with the mouthpiece in our mouth and hold the rest in our hands. What do you do to stop a cymbal making a sound, you touch it.

There is not one shred of evidence supporting what I call " vibrationalism" besides we have spoken for years and years and years about this. And the vibrationalist church keeps coming back, and more importantly, speaking od resonance but offering no proof that that is there or that it means anything.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?143429-neck-material

The material that a neck is made of has no direct consequence on the sound. I have had three necks on my Super 20, Original brass, Gloger Solid hig grade silver (999), King silver (probably coin silver 900).

They all played pretty much the same.
 
#10 ·
I can follow your thoughts about "vibrationalism", didn`t compare King necks, because I only have silver ones, but compared lots of Yanagisawas and my very subjective impression was, that there are reproducable differences between necks of different materials.

If this was due to the "vibrational" properties of the materials, or slight differences of surfaces or inner dimensions- I don`t know and I don`t care.

If it makes no difference for you or someone else, that`s fine- I trust my impressions. But I really didn`t want to revitalize an endless discussion about neck materials, sorry.
 
#11 ·
you probably better read something about how saxophones work.

You are not the only vibrationalist on this board and this is the most quoted article on this forum.

Read this article on how woodwind instruments work, then you will see that it is the air column inside the horn that makes the sound, not the metal container.

https://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/woodwind.html
 
#13 ·
I have read (always do) and thought about what you wrote and still, I feel you or (if you chose not to) other people might need to read more on the subject.



This forum bears a responsibility to not spread fallacious ideas but possibly verifiable information. Internet is already full of “ it”.



Personal impressions are not a good way to deal with science. I do care about science and always put facts against beliefs .
 
#14 ·
Sorry for my rude reaction and again I`m mostly with you, milandro.

But personal impressions are a central part of our lives and we deal not only with science but with music, a kind of art.

So it may be allowed for me to trust my ears and not only to follow theories and experiments.
If my subjective perceptions signalize, that there are any kind of differences, I see no need to forbid me that impression, because science and "facts?" lead in another direction.

Btw. I didn`t see this forum as a mainly scientific one until now, sorry for misinterpreting.

I think further "meta" discussion about personal sights doesn`t help so I propose to go back to topic, peacefully.
 
#15 ·
art is about playing music, that is all about impressions, but the way a neck affects the playing of a saxophone in a physics way or manner is science not art.

This forum is about art when we talk art and about science when we talk science. Different topics.

I agree, it is not useful to run in circles, let’s leave it here.
 
#16 ·
art is about playing music, that is all about impressions, but the way a neck affects the playing of a saxophone in a physics way or manner is science not art.

This forum is about art when we talk art and about science when we talk science. Different topics.

I agree, it is not useful to run in circles, let's leave it here.
A saxophone is a man-made object, simple enough to be described very accurately using the methods of natural science. A saxophonist is a much more complex thing, and we are presently not in a position to describe a human being very comprehensively through models from natural science.

If the silver neck makes the saxophonist believe that he or she sounds better, it may actually work. The effect of the silver is not influencing the physical workings of the instrument, but rather what goes on between the player's ears - and what goes on in the player's brain has profound effects on the sound, I think we can agree.
 
#17 ·
By this logic, or the lack of it, any amulet should be accepted, just in case it might produce personal reaction to a believer.


It might give you “ more emotion”! Or not.

Selling of amulets under false pretenses is as old as the world, and indeed, placebo in medicine, works in many cases just as well as any other drug, yet one is not allowed to trade placebos under non verifiable pretenses.

But yes, buy anything you want and indeed hold any belief that you like. It is called relativism and has been known not to bring you anywhere because if everything is true and everything is false at the same time you stay,running circles, exactly where one has started.

Nowhere.
 
#18 ·
I don't disagree with you, @milandro, and your amulet analogy is to the point. However, doing scientific research for a living has taught me that human perception can only be incompletely described by scientific means - to me, its OK to act on unfounded beliefs as long as you don't try to persuade others that there is something there of general validity (to try to "trade placebos", as you put it). If I find something out through sufficiently thorough research, I'll look you or anyone in the eye and say that this is true for me, for you, and for everyone else (granted, that would be about something simpler than human feeling) . The silver neck enthusiast should be content to say that the sound feels better to him or her with the silver neck, and be prepared to hear from others that "it's all between your ears".
 
#19 ·
Persuading others of the validity of their claims is ALL the sellers of amulets do, whether concerning saxophones or not and preying on the gullibility of others founds itself on the sounding board offered by those whom should know better.

Allowing claims based on personal perception to be passed for facts is wrong. If you allow this for saxophones you may as well allow this for foor or drugs, and THAT is strictly forbidden BECASE the law protects people from their own stupidity.
 
#21 ·
again, which is what all the people that are selling something try to do, always! Selling things smuggling their beliefs as facts.

In all those years there was only one example of a free vibrationalt item, the P.Ligging

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?92953-P-Ligging-a-little-help-to-pimp-your-sound

ALL the rest were expensive items sold by people whom never produced one shred of tests that weren't based on ridiculous assumptions.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?168693-What-the-LefreQue

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...ew-of-quot-The-Buzz-quot-Oversized-Neck-Screw

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...ew-of-quot-The-Buzz-quot-Oversized-Neck-Screw



"........The Klangbogen™ instantly increases output and depth of tone of the saxophone while stabilizing the extreme ranges of the horn so it speaks with clarity. This allows the player to achieve a rich saxophone sound with great forward projection and point (focus) to the sound......"
 
#26 ·
I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I’ve seen a Super 20 silver neck sold in my country.

Again I paid $1000 several years ago for one neck. A horn without a neck is virtually worthless and with a neck a tenor will be worth at least €3000.
 
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