Hammerschmidt intonation problems - Page 2

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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur Weltklang View Post
    Help! This technical jargon is flying over my head!
    cheers, Mark.
    Flarp = some notes sharp, others flat..........same as shrat?

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    Since the problem is from above G2, that is why I suspect the pip, pad opening or placement of the pip. Since flat was mentioned as the issue, I would clean the pip, open the pad distance and maybe ream out the hole a bit.

  4. #23

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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    Well, you all certainly had a lot to say! I hope I can respond to everything.

    The octave key on the neck doesn't open a whole lot, like 1-2 mm. To me, that may be worth looking into.

    I actually tried writing down the tuning of each note. I tune to F# at the top of the staff, for reference. G is alredy 5 cents flat, A is 20 cents flat, B is 40 cents flat, and it stays in the 40+ cents flat range the rest of the way. And as much as I want to, I'm probably lipping some of those notes up, because I can't really deal with the tuner flipping between high-forties flat and high-forties sharp of the next note down. Interestingly, from the same F# down to D, I'm sharp 10-20 cents, then C# down to Ab, I'm flat again. The G at the bottom of the staff down to C below the staff I'm real close to in tune (most out of tune was 6 cents sharp). Then B is 9 cents sharp, and Bb 16 cents sharp.

    I bought a new mouthpiece last weekend. The Goldentone I had been using was a 3; this new King hard rubber mouthpiece is a 7. I did the tuning test with the King mouthpiece, and it has a really wide-open chamber. Why did I get a new mouthpiece? Because it was $12.50 and I can actually put some air in the horn.

    As for reeds, I had been using a 2 1/2 Vandoren Java. Reading what was mentioned here, I tried out the Vandoren 3 I had bought. I performed the above test using the 3.

    Someone asked how long I've been playing Tenor. That's a good question, and I'm going to go in depth. I'm a college-level player. I'm decent, or was, and I like to play Bari. So of course, lessons were on Alto, concert band was Alto, and jazz band and sax quartet were Bari. When I did my recital, I actually played four different saxes; Alto, Soprano, Bari, and Bass. But I hadn't played and Tenor since high school, junior year to be exact (circa 1993). So, I haven't been playing Tenor long. I do, however, have experience switching between horns and making adjustments. And before you say it's simply inexperience or bad chops causing problems, I played a pair of horns at the shop last weekend (Cannonball and Chateau) and the intonation on both was better. The Cannonball especially was quite consistent from top to bottom. So it kind of eliminated my fear of it all being user error.

    I'm having fun practicing the sax and getting my chops back into decent shape. I really like this Hammerschmidt horn as well, I'd just like to be able to play it in tune as much as possible on the off chance I get to play with someone or in group. That 40 cent flatness in the upper range would be deadly.

  5. #24
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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    Good info. So the problems really do not occur on the G (5 cents is negligible on ANY saxophone). It starts at A and higher.

    And you are a pretty experienced player.

    You didn't answer all questions, though

    Did you try my experiment ? Pull mouthpiece way out so the lower octave is playing 30 cents flat. Then go up the register, and test the problem notes. Are they still 30-40 cents flatter than the lower notes in intonation, or are they now closer to the lower notes...like perhaps 10-20 cents flatter ?
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  6. #25

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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    I did try that out, and the notes are still 40 cents flatter than the now-20-cents-flat tuning notes, so basically going to the next note down, 40 cents sharp.

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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    Darnit...I thought I was onto something.
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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    I also havea Klingsor Stencil. I find the intonation so so and middle D is quite sharp. I find G to have a whistle to it. I am an experienced player and can compensate for the pitch issues. I also do not have an original neck with this horn

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    which series have you got one of the older ones or one of the newer ones, the older ones are not worse than any vintage horn, the newer ones might have been cheapened out. You can’t run a business for 30 odd years and sell 5000 saxophones that aren’t playing in tune.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  10. #29

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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    Hello,
    This is kind of a stale thread, about 9 months out, but I only just noticed it. I've got a Hammerschmidt Klingsor tenor #033xx in really fabulous shape. Just lacquered brass, no fancy engraving, only one pearl touch, with the acrylic guards. The lacquer is only worn a little around the left and right thumb touches and LH side keys. No dents, no scratches. Has the double octave vents on the body. I bought it from an internet ad posting in Wolfhagen in Germany a few months ago. It arrived with replacement metal guards for protection in shipping but with the acrylics guards too. The neck isn't original. The seller's explanation was that the replacement neck was custom made for the instrument (it has the "JK" Keilwerth shield logo on it) because it played badly out of tune with the original neck. The replacement neck fits the instrument perfectly and appears to use the original Klingsor octave key. It's very heavy, sandblasted bare brass with a huge rib on the underside about 1/8" in thickness. It's a simple inside/outside cylindrical fitting, no unusual double wall, conical or odd screw arrangement. Unfortunately, the original neck was no longer with the instrument so I couldn't compare them, but the instrument's intonation seems acceptable to me as it plays now. Two mouthpieces were included, one a no-name in rubber and the other Hammerschmidt-branded in metal. I'm a bassoon player, and I haven't had a lot of time to spend with the Klingsor tenor yet, and my observations might not be very insightful anyway, but if anyone one can suggest a mouthpiece they've had success with on an instrument like this, I'd be grateful. From what I've seen in earlier postings on this forum, Hammerschmidts were designed to use a smaller chamber mouthpiece. I'd be glad to post some general or specific photos if anyone's interested.
    Regards,
    Charlie Koster, San Gabriel, CA

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    Would love to see the replacement neck, actually....
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  12. #31

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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    Here are some shorts of the Hammerschmidt Klingsor tenor, including a couple of the neck.
    Images attachées Images attachées

  13. #32
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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    Cool. FWIW I doubt that is the original octave key, actually. Hammerschmidt octave keys were usually either 2-piece wire soldered together, or 2 piece spine soldered to wire ring. They usually weren't this sorta planar sheet metal type.

    Looks like someone took a JK neck and modified it to work on your horn. Am sure it sounds quite nice.
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  14. #33

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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    I'm sure you know more about it than I do, but the octave key mechanism looks just like one on the Bassic Sax Pics website.

    http://bassic-sax.info/4images/detai...image_id=23705

    CK

  15. #34
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    Default Re: Hammerschmidt intonation problems

    You stated above the neck 'appears to use the original Klingsor octave key', which is what I was replying to.

    The semantics of your wording suggested you thought a Klingsor neck key had been transplanted onto the replacement neck, as I understood it; thus my comment.

    Looks like a modern JK-ish neck key, is certainly not a Hammerschmidt type neck key, is all I was sayin'....

    Anyway, not much surprise that a JK neck, even altered, would work well on a Klingsor...glad the combo is a successful match.
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