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Opinion on a 1947 full pearls Super 20 for $3000 but...

2K views 9 replies 7 participants last post by  danielstark 
#1 ·
Greetings. Admittedly, I rarely post here but I visit frequently and keep learning from those who do post, and I've bought a couple of horns and several mouthpieces from members. I've played on and off for 50 years, yeah more off than on until about 10 years ago. I own Ref. 36, 10M, SDA, Keilworth tenors.

Anyway, I've come across a 1947 full pearls Super 20 at a somewhat local music store with an asking price of $3000. The ad states that the sax is in good shape, cleaned and oiled (sounds like a watch more than a sax:)) and ready to play "as soon as you open the case." No commentary on an overhaul or even partial pad replacement, or whether it's a relaq. I haven't yet seen it in person but I can see in the blurry pics that indeed all the pearls (side, G#, palms, and octave key) are present, lacquer generally present although rubbed away in a couple of largish areas but not bad, engraving not visible.

Here's the big butt (no, not Big B): these same blurry pics reveal two out of the three key guards are not original (look similar the wire style on an old Conn) and all the keys are delaquered or perhaps replaced, "silverish" in color. Pics are too poor to see if there is any engraving on the bell keys. The pants guard is gone but no biggie

I recall that someone on here makes or has a source for replacement key guards, and maybe I could live with the incorrectness of the keys if the horn was a playah regardless, but what is the board's opinion on this horn (not seen in person or played yet, but supposing the store's "ready to play" description is good for the sake of argument) if it can be had for $3000 or bargained down to $2500 (it appears to have been around for a little while)? Or should I bite the bullet and pay two or three thousand more for an overhauled horn with a better pedigree?

Thank you for your thoughts.
 
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#2 ·
My opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, is that it might be better to wait. If it's got non-original key guards on it, it's hard to know what else may be wrong with it. Others might disabuse me of this notion, but I think key guards don't generally just get lost--it seems likely that there was some major damage at some point. $3000 or even $2500 is a lot for something with pretty big questions.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for your reply, which supports some of my "worst fears" imaginings.

BTW, I like your cat icon, looks like one we had years back, pure white under the tail except for a concentric circle perfectly around, umm, the musk gland. We named him Bullseye.
 
#4 ·
It seems to me that if you can get a King S20 series 1 for $2500, you should do it. You can get proper key guards from Mike Barnes at Sax Stuff http://www.saxstuff.co.uk/

With a full overhaul, and proper set up, you could have less than $3500 into that horn. Seems like a good deal in today's horn market.
 
#6 ·
sorry but it took me a full 60 seconds to find it. You were probably avoiding letting it out. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/msg/5767586116.html

It's obviously relacquered. The incorrect key guards are soldered on. Personally I would pass on it. I think its a full $1000 over priced. I have followed these for a long time, and I just bought a Zephyr Special two weeks ago, after watching for a long time. I have spent up to 6K on saxes that I have purchased online without touching first. I wouldn't go near that one without having it in my hands.
 
#7 ·
Your wisdom is, umm, wise, sir. Thanks for your input. Happily it's only about 40 miles away if I feel sufficiently encouraged to visit it and test it out. I thought $2K perhaps was a starting point in negotiation, but perhaps that is the end point as you suggest. Thank you.
 
#9 ·
Relacquer for sure. Those low C/Eb guards have been soldered to the body whereas the originals "should" have mounts on the bow with screws holding the guards on. For me the biggest downside other than the buffed engraving/relac is the keys appear to be nickel plated rather than silver. Since it is at a store and the economy is not so great, just offer them $1,200 and settle at $1,500. Should be a nice player but not a collectible horn. Play and enjoy. If you want to go a ways with it, get the correct guard set-up, have the engraving recut and relacquer the body assuming the pads are good. Leave the keys alone. I would just play it as is.
If you have the Chrome browser, go to the photos, punch the + thing and then use the taskbar magnifier set to 300% and you will see a lot of what I mentioned.
 
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