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Thanks NYSSMA for crushing my dreams

19K views 67 replies 42 participants last post by  Dr G 
#1 ·
I'm not sure how many people within this thread are familiar with groups like NYSSMA or NYSBDA, as they're all New York associated groups but here goes my short story.

The other day August 25th I was anxiously waiting my arrival of mail for my notification of making the New York All State Jazz Band, I had auditioned in all 3 horns (Alto, Tenor, Bari) and I had got perfect scores on alto and tenor (100/100) and a 97 on Bari all with a bunch of strengths on each sheet. I was well in the running and had a great shot at making the band as I had made All County Jazz all my years previous and had participated in an auditioned out of school group the past year which just increased my chances. As I was going through my mail I had seen that my letters had arrived (only for Alto and Tenor) and I opened them and my heart shattered as I saw two ALTERNATE letters (and yes they did say Alternate in bold and caps) in front of me. I was actually very much devastated at the fact I hadn't made it. Later that day I had found out 2 guys from my county (according to NYSSMA they try to take players from evenly spread geographic zones from the state) and one player had made the Jazz at Lincoln Center Band so I wasn't that upset about that. What I had found out that totally ripped me to shreds was that the second chair tenor player from my county (yes I am the first chair tenor) had made first chair tenor in All state Jazz! I was furious because this guy had come out of nowhere and as NYSSMA states in their website and I quote "The All-State Selection Committee reviews (in no specific priority): member school music teacher recommendations, adjudicator recommendations, the candidate's previous NYSSMA Solo ratings, grade in school, zone representation, participation in the previous year's All-State, and participation in other performing organization." I had filled almost all these conditions and I somehow was passed over to another person that hadn't fulfilled some of these?!?! The sad part comes now as that I don't have a desire to pick up my horn as much as I used to anymore and when I do play I just feel sadness and not sure why I want to major in music and I feel this whole process has killed my passion for music and Jazz. I'm not really sure how to cope at this point and I just wanted to get my words out here with guys who might have gone through a similar situation.

On a side note, my dad found a group called NYSBDA which is a group for people who did not make the NYSSMA All State ensembles, I wanted to know if anyone had any sort of knowledge on this as I know little to nothing about it.

Thanks for taking the time to read all, Matt
 
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#40 ·
Has anyone - especially dear OP - noticed that the actual working musicians responding to this thread are pretty much all saying what Dan did - "musical competitions are a farce" - maybe you should consider whether those of us that have been doing this stuff a long time under a wide range of conditions may have a useful perspective on competitions?

Did Coleman Hawkins participate in musical competitions and worry whether he would be All-State or All-County or All-Whatever?

As far as the experience of being in an "All-Whatever Band", it sounds pretty dreadful to me. A bunch of overpracticed kids all playing their fastest licks at each other all day long, trying each to prove he's the baddest on the block. For a real meaningful and educational experience, I suggested above, put out some ads and form a quintet dedicated to, say, the music of Django Reinhardt - or, the music of W. C. Handy - or, western swing - or, the music of Sidney Bechet...
 
#41 ·
I'm sure there are positives to this. A cantankerous oldster might suggest it builds character..."Tuck it up, Buttercup!" is what my dad would have offered (assuming he gave enough of a damn to even ask...) I can however, tell you this: I get a lot of calls to play. No one has ever asked about my scholastic experience. Sometimes people want to see my reel, or ask if there are any vids of what I do on you-tube. Mostly they just hire me based on a referral. If you're in a big city, your local music scene is guaranteed to be "political", but it has nothing to do with your schoolin'....

Here's my advice: (You won't thank me for this. No one ever does) If you have musical dreams, start living them. Drop out. Join a band. Get hooked on something bad... busk. Go on the road. Pawn your instrument. Wash dishes. Buy it back. Rinse. Repeat. Die.
...


....sent from a broken iPhone found at the local rehab center...
 
#45 ·
FWIW- all the guys that I knew coming up and had all the awards and medals never went anywhere with their music, literally. It was love of playing that took me around the world more than once, and informed my music and my life.

So, if playing makes you happy, play. If not, do something else.
But check out the horn now and again.

Your horn will get you through bad times more than no horn will get you to good times.:mrgreen:
 
#47 ·
I know everyone else has chimed in with similar sentiments, but these kind of things are actually really good for building up your tolerance for rejection. Even the most talented musicians in the world have to deal with rejection and hurt feelings all the time.

Being rejected because of how you play is devastating, especially when you are younger. But it's also something that is going to happen to you all the time if you decide to be a pro musician, especially early on. I actually think that all the rejection I had early on (like others here, I never made a single honor band, but I made my living playing for 10 years after college) made me a better musician in the long run. Instead of letting it get me down, it made me practice even harder, because I was mad (mostly at myself). These moments are a test, and the test isn't always whether you win the audition. A lot of times the test is how you handle failure/rejection, and how it motivates you to practice. If this makes you determined to practice even harder, and get better, than you win. If it discourages you to the point of quitting, then it was probably never meant to be. Being a working musician is incredibly hard, and usually not very financially rewarding compared to the same time investment in another profession. You have to want it so bad that nothing is going to discourage you, no matter how many times you get knocked down.

That being said, I don't regret my choices at all; I love being a saxophone player for a living (although these days, I work at a music store too). I REALLY don't regret never being in an honor band either, although at the time it really hurt.
 
#49 ·
Dear Fader, if you're still tuned in to this thread:

My children have participated in NYSSMA auditions and festivals. They do it because they love playing in the festival ensembles, and I support their participation in NYSSMA because I'm glad they're getting regular opportunities to experience performance nerves, and because it's a way of supporting their hard-working, underpaid school music teachers.

But NYSSMA is a crap shoot, plain and simple, and you need to separate your belief in yourself (ego considerations) from your NYSSMA results.

I know that it is a crap shoot, because I always go into my children's auditions, to enjoy listening to them play. The rules are that the parent can listen to the scales and the piece, but not the sight reading. I figure, I've paid for lessons, I've driven them to rehearsals, I've made sure they practiced every day, I've heard the squeaks and squawks while I'm making dinner, I've washed the dishes by myself while they were practicing, I've provided the equipment.... Listening to the NYSSMA auditions and the school concerts are my opportunities to enjoy the results!

So I've seen a lot of NYSSMA judges in action. There is a tremendous variety. On one extreme, the judge listens carefully, enjoys the performance, and finds something positive to write on the sheet. On the other extreme, the judge has his nose in the printed part, checking to make sure the student didn't miss a single accidental, a single hairpin. No joy at all! He might as well have been an accountant.... And everything in between.

I guess the key is, don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you are auditioning for some other things during the year, in addition to your NYSSMA auditions, then it will be easier to take a you-win-some-you-lose-some attitude.

For example -- have you looked into NYSSSA? It's a very affordable summer music opportunity for those in New York State.

Re: NYSBDA -- I have only had one experience with this group so far. One of my children plays saxophone in addition to my family's usual predilection for strings, and he had a great experience. He qualified automatically by virtue of his NYSSMA audition results. It didn't seem to be a consolation prize at all, and his experience at the weekend festival couldn't have been better.
 
#53 ·
Dear Fader, if you're still tuned in to this thread:

My children have participated in NYSSMA auditions and festivals. They do it because they love playing in the festival ensembles, and I support their participation in NYSSMA because I'm glad they're getting regular opportunities to experience performance nerves, and because it's a way of supporting their hard-working, underpaid school music teachers.
...snip....
Those reasons are enough for me to get behind...I never even finished high school, but managed to craft a career that allows me to both play and create music from time to time. I'm all for anything that keeps kids interested and musicians employed...
 
#51 ·
If it's any consolation, you sound like a monster player and I'm sure tons of people would love to be as good as you are. And many of us would be happy to pay to hear you play. (And in addition to the first two, I would also love to take lessons with you.)
 
#52 ·
I don't know anyone who talks about their all state band placement passed sophomore year of college. We had 1 or 2 all-staters come to my undergrad every year I was their. Your tremendous playing will get you into your dream school. Then a few years out of school nobody will talk about the school you attended. Auditions to get into bands (with the exception of military bands) in the real world are very different than all state as well as university ensembles. For example, band leaders don't ask for scales.
Stay in music because you love the art. If you are doing it for ensemble placement prestige that is really bad.

Like an old professor used to say, "someone will always be better"
Don't let that bring you down.
 
#62 ·
I'm not sure how many people within this thread are familiar with groups like NYSSMA or NYSBDA, as they're all New York associated groups but here goes my short story.

The other day August 25th I was anxiously waiting my arrival of mail for my notification of making the New York All State Jazz Band, I had auditioned in all 3 horns (Alto, Tenor, Bari) and I had got perfect scores on alto and tenor (100/100) and a 97 on Bari all with a bunch of strengths on each sheet. I was well in the running and had a great shot at making the band as I had made All County Jazz all my years previous and had participated in an auditioned out of school group the past year which just increased my chances. As I was going through my mail I had seen that my letters had arrived (only for Alto and Tenor) and I opened them and my heart shattered as I saw two ALTERNATE letters (and yes they did say Alternate in bold and caps) in front of me. I was actually very much devastated at the fact I hadn't made it. Later that day I had found out 2 guys from my county (according to NYSSMA they try to take players from evenly spread geographic zones from the state) and one player had made the Jazz at Lincoln Center Band so I wasn't that upset about that. What I had found out that totally ripped me to shreds was that the second chair tenor player from my county (yes I am the first chair tenor) had made first chair tenor in All state Jazz! I was furious because this guy had come out of nowhere and as NYSSMA states in their website and I quote "The All-State Selection Committee reviews (in no specific priority): member school music teacher recommendations, adjudicator recommendations, the candidate's previous NYSSMA Solo ratings, grade in school, zone representation, participation in the previous year's All-State, and participation in other performing organization." I had filled almost all these conditions and I somehow was passed over to another person that hadn't fulfilled some of these?!?! The sad part comes now as that I don't have a desire to pick up my horn as much as I used to anymore and when I do play I just feel sadness and not sure why I want to major in music and I feel this whole process has killed my passion for music and Jazz. I'm not really sure how to cope at this point and I just wanted to get my words out here with guys who might have gone through a similar situation.

On a side note, my dad found a group called NYSBDA which is a group for people who did not make the NYSSMA All State ensembles, I wanted to know if anyone had any sort of knowledge on this as I know little to nothing about it.

Thanks for taking the time to read all, Matt
Play your horns for the enjoyment of playing. When picking is subjective, review your playing and go from there. It makes no sense to me considering you aced the audition on alto and tenor. Maybe politics played a part. Don’t let this spoil your dreams.
 
#67 ·
One aspect of many competitions now, even outside music, is that the "best man" does not always win, and that's on purpose. There are often other criteria putting thumbs on the scale, just as the OP mentioned. "Equal Opportunity", "Gender Equality", "Geographic Diversity", etc. Thus a random element is introduced.
 
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