So I just bought a King by Hn White Soprano from Saxquest. They (Saxquest) say it's in Bb but with similar keywork as that of the C Soprano. It looks badass and the pads are still good to go.
This is a first for me: I've never bought a sax online and am really anxious to see if the horn is as good as I'm hoping it will be.
Anyone have experience with this horn or buying a used horn from Saxquest? What's been your experience with the horn and Saxquest? They were great when I bought a Theo Wanna Mantra a month ago.
Time to find the patience to wait for the sax to get here so I can take it for a test drive.
Saxquest is great. You shouldn't have anything to worry about when dealing with Mark.
Vintage King sopranos are hit-or-miss. The ones that play well, play really well. I still have one King sop in my stable (a C-Sop) and I have no intention of ever getting rid of it.
The mechanics are more antiquated than similarly aged American horns, but the ergos are about the same. If Saxquest sold it and is standing behind it, I'm sure it is a good player. If it stays in regulation, then you probably have a great horn.
[Tongue firmly in cheek]
Those "ancient" ergos were holding you back. Just imagine how much better you would have been 40 years ago if you'd had proper ergonomics.
[End sarcasm]
Seriously, I have give or take a year of actual experience playing any significant Soprano and I love my vintage Martin. There's something special about these horns that makes me truly enjoy learning to tame the half-size tenor
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have to say...King Sopranos have a reputation for horrible intonation. I mean a really, really BAD rep for that.
All I can tell you is I have refurbished two of 'em, straight Bb Sopranos....and simply by dialing in the keyheights...their intonation was not a problem whatsoever. Definitely more flexible than most asian horns, but by no means anything particularly different intonation-wise from a Conn, Holton, Martin, or Buescher.
Enjoy it. Their market values have actually gone UP in the past year or so. Used to be able to peg one for nothing...not anymore.
have to say...King Sopranos have a reputation for horrible intonation. I mean a really, really BAD rep for that.
All I can tell you is I have refurbished two of 'em, straight Bb Sopranos....and simply by dialing in the keyheights...their intonation was not a problem whatsoever. [ . . . ]
All the Kings of that era have a bad rep for intonation. I've had a couple altos and neither of them had intonation worse than Buescher or Conn horns I've played from the same era.
Ditto on the intonation being no worse than the other vintage horns. I had a King curvie that was outstanding. There is one quirk to these King sopranos and it is the G# key doesn't have a valid stop and after you press it enough to open the G# pad, the lever keeps on going down. Annoying but this can be fixed building up the bottom of the lever or a thick stop on the body tube.
Does it have the odd G# arrangement where the pad that lifts to sound G# is off-center of the main stack tone holes & positioned behind and below the G# cluster? That's the way the way altos & tenors from that era are set up, and the G# does have a lot of lost motion. One of my King altos has a little cork mountain underneath the key to stop it.
I have a theory that the bad rep these horns - at least the tenors & altos - have is more on account of keywork quirks and tech maladjustment (or impatience) rather than inherently bad intonation. And the octave pips on the later horns are shaped like little igloos with a hole drilled at an angle to the horn's body, so if the pad's not cupped a little it won't seal properly.
Ditto on the intonation being no worse than the other vintage horns. I had a King curvie that was outstanding. There is one quirk to these King sopranos and it is the G# key doesn't have a valid stop and after you press it enough to open the G# pad, the lever keeps on going down. Annoying but this can be fixed building up the bottom of the lever or a thick stop on the body tube.
I find it best to put a thick cork with a felt covering on the body rather than the G#lever as there is not a lot of surface on the lever which makes it get knocked off.
If it's the later igloo type I was talking about, the challenge will be obvious just by looking. On those, the octave pip hole does not rise up straight out of the pip perpendicular to the surface of the horn (or neck), it's drilled at an oblique angle and comes out on the side of the pip. On the earlier horns, the hole rises straight out of the pip like normal. Here's what the igloo type looks like on a tenor neck:
So no igloo octave tone hole, but I do have a rogue octave key when fingering G. It opens up a little without any pressure on the octave key itself. Gonna have a tech look at it as that's the only problem with the horn.
I love the sound (I disconnected the octave key spring to play in the lows and mids) throughout the range. This thing has tons of projection. Will know more about intonation once the rogue octave pad is resolved.
Not a big deal on the octave problem but needs a patient fixer! The two octave pips need to be exactly right. No pressing = both closed. Pressed D2 up to G#2 = lower pip only, A2 and up = upper pip. Most of this relates to balancing the corks.
I was looking at the patent for the "igloo" style octave vent. It is US patent 1549911 and Google has patents searchable online. The patent was filed in 1923 and granted in 1925. I don't know what the requirements were in the 1920s, but presently you have to file within one year of invention. So if the date is pushed back a year, that means an invention in 1922.
It.might have been made before this or, alternatively, they might have found it has no benefit on soprano. It's also possible they never integrated it on their Sopranos before they stopped making them.
To be honest the A2 on my Zephyr tenor has a severe case of tea kettle whistling. It's only audible to me, I've never heard it on a recording. D2 has a mild case, again only audible to me at lower volumes.
I dont know if this adds anything to the conversation or not but there you go.
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Thanks for the intel--I always appreciate more information about things from those who know.
It's crazy having a vintage horn and discovering the history surrounding it. And the knowledge you guys have sheds a lot of light on the design quirks.
I never played a King Bb but I play a King C soprano since 2010 and I love it, it has a great tone and a very flexible sound, from loud to whisper with any problem. Also a very good intonation.
Congratulations, enjoy it,I would like to know how it plays after the tech revision.
Mine looks identical to the C soprano by King, but is a little longer from the pictures in the booklet at the link Hornlip shared on the first page.
I love it as it is and can't wait to take it in and have it overhauled and dialed in to fit me perfectly. We have a good shop nearby and great techs, so all I need to do is scrounge the cash together to get it done.
I agree with you on the tone--it's big and very versatile on my Mantra, and had a nice darkness/warmth to it on my Lakey 7*. I am in love with my metal mistress.
Photos will be posted once it comes back from the tech. I'll also include a before since there is some cosmetic wear and tear that will be cleaned up as part of the overhaul.
Managed to do a temporary fix to the rogue octave pad. Now I might be able to get some playing time on the horn before it goes in for the overhaul this fall/winter.
Turned out that the previous owner or Saxquest put a think piece of cork under the G# key to reduce the key travel. That was a nice surprise.
My tech looked at the horn today and looks like I'll be out about $750 for an overhaul, star resonators, and polishing. Not too shabby. Just need the bonus check to show up here and we'll be good to go!
The horn goes to the shop for some new leather in the winter--gotta save up for the overhaul as having a wife and kid find many ways to help me reinvest my income in things other than my saxophones!
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