Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

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    Default Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    The Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    After years of preparation and development, we are so proud to FINALLY announce the pricing and release date of our most recent line of saxophone mouthpieces - Pure Vintage by CE Winds. We expect a release date of June 1st, 2016 with mouthpieces in hand and ready to ship - no wait for the first several dozen customers - we will be able to produce between 20-25 per week, so there should never be a back log or waiting list on orders.


    Pure Vintage Meyer Bros NY Alto 5M - Sale Price $179.00
    Pure Vintage Otto Link Slant Sig Tenor 7* - Sale Price $199.00


    I've tried to upload pictures but I just can't seem to make them small enough, so click the link above and there are a few shots, I will be posting more to the product page once we launch.

    These mouthpieces are so identical to the originals that we are making them in a specially colored material so that they are not sold as originals or original blanks from the factory. The original mouthpieces we are using were all hand picked by our team through 10+ years of buying, selling and trading vintage saxophone mouthpieces. As you know, some vintage mouthpieces are much better than others, and we saved the best ones we could find specifically for this project. The measurements are exact to the original pieces that we are using to make them from. Inner chambers, rail thickness, tables, baffles, everything is exact to the original, or so close that even our gauges cannot detect the differences - even minor cosmetic blemishes from the originals are transferred over to the Pure Vintage mouthpieces. Our team is only removing seam lines and doing minor clean ups on the facings so that they maintain their original measurements.

    These pieces are not CNC or 3D Printed, they are made using similar craftsmanship to the way they were made during their specific eras. We feel CNC was a huge step in the industry when it was introduced on the 1980's, and now 3D Printing seems to be catching on, but we love and prefer the traditional approach of manufacturing mouthpieces.

    We feel there has never been a better reproduction mouthpiece than what we are going to be offering with the Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces. We will be offering our usual 30 Day Money Back Guarantee (from the day you receive your mouthpiece) to see for yourself. Compare it to your original, compare it to a friends original, play it for 30 Days and see what you think! At the price we are able to offer these great mouthpieces at, just above what modern production mouthpieces are selling for - along with our Money Back Guarantee, there is very little, if any, risk to checking out the new Pure Vintage mouthpieces by CE Winds!

    From our recent blog:

    The vintage saxophone mouthpiece market has never been higher and more out of reach for most saxophone players – with certain mouthpiece models selling in the $2,000 - $3000 range! Some saxophone players we’ve talked to said they would pay $1,000, $2,000 or more IF the mouthpiece they were buying was everything they wanted and more – but who wants to take that type of risk?

    Through many years of buying, selling and trading saxophone mouthpieces, we have held on to most of the mouthpieces that we really consider the best of the best of the best – therefore making it easy for you to finally get that mouthpiece you’ve been looking for but never wanted to buy because the price was far too great to take the chance!

    Using specifically chosen high grade materials, and manufacturing processes that we have developed over several years of making CE Winds mouthpieces (not CNC or 3D Printing), we are able to replicate these great vintage mouthpieces that are no longer being made due to industry changes in technology and manufacturing. These mouthpieces are purely vintage – they look, feel, play, and respond just like the original design that they are modeled from – we guarantee it! They look so much like the original designs that we are making them in a very specific color so that they will not ever be sold as originals or original blanks.

    Our plan is to release several models / sizes over the years. We are launching the line with a 1960’s era Otto Link Tone Edge Slant Sig 7* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece as well as a 1940’s Meyer Bros New York 5M Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece.

    Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpiece - Meyer Bros Alto
    (MSRP 249.00) Sale price $179.00

    Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpiece Otto Link Tenor
    (MSRP $279.00) Sale Price $199.00

    When you receive your new mouthpieces, you may notice minor cosmetic blemishes which may due to the following factors:
    • a) blemishes in the original used as the master
    • b) small air pockets created during the casting process
    • c) minimal hand finishing in order to maintain original integrity


    Every mouthpiece goes through the same point check / play test process as each CE Winds Handmade Saxophone Mouthpiece – mouthpiece tables, tips and rails checked, & test played. We also offer a 30 Day Money Back Guarantee on each mouthpiece purchased - with CE Winds we want to make sure you are satisfied with your purchase!
    CE Winds - Performance when it matters. Custom handmade saxophone mouthpieces, Ft Myers, Florida.

    www.cewinds.com

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Photo bucket
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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Maraday View Post
    Photo bucket
    Thanks! We'll post some soon. :-)
    CE Winds - Performance when it matters. Custom handmade saxophone mouthpieces, Ft Myers, Florida.

    www.cewinds.com

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Here are some pics of the Pure Vintage Meyer Bros NY 5M...







    CE Winds - Performance when it matters. Custom handmade saxophone mouthpieces, Ft Myers, Florida.

    www.cewinds.com

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Thanks for all the emails!

    Here are pictures of the Pure Vintage Otto Link Tone Edge Slant Tenor







    CE Winds - Performance when it matters. Custom handmade saxophone mouthpieces, Ft Myers, Florida.

    www.cewinds.com

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Will they be like The Sig?
    Conn 10M #272XXX - Allen 10E, Allen 20TD, Brilharts and other great stuff.
    Conn New Wonder #144XXX tenor - Otto Link Veeblevetzer

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    This announcement confused me, so forgive me, I have some questions. Didn't you guys already do this? I know the video makes mention of The Sig and whatever the Meyer piece was called...but weren't those pieces supposed to play like the originals? Now, these ones are supposed to play like the originals, too?? You're going for the same sound concept....again? Sorry it just didn't make sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post

    After years of preparation and development...
    How did it take years of preparation and development if you're just copying a piece?? What was there to "develop?"


    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post
    These mouthpieces are so identical to the originals that we are making them in a specially colored material so that they are not sold as originals or original blanks from the factory
    The only thing "identical" I see are the stampings on the piece, which you might want to check to make sure they're not copyrighted by those respective companies. I checked out the video, to see if it answered any questions. The window looks smaller on your copy piece than the original. And playing wise, the originals sound SIGNIFICANTLY better to my ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post
    The measurements are exact to the original pieces that we are using to make them from. Inner chambers, rail thickness, tables, baffles, everything is exact to the original, or so close that even our gauges cannot detect the differences - even minor cosmetic blemishes from the originals are transferred over to the Pure Vintage mouthpieces. Our team is only removing seam lines and doing minor clean ups on the facings so that they maintain their original measurements.
    So...you're using an imperfect mold process that can't possibly transfer exact measurements...then your 'team' is doing 'minor' hand work on them. Who is your team? Is it more than one person who will be doing the hand finishing? What are their credentials? What if the piece needs more hand work to play it's best?

    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post
    These pieces are not CNC or 3D Printed, they are made using similar craftsmanship to the way they were made during their specific eras.
    Meaning molding?

    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post
    We feel CNC was a huge step in the industry when it was introduced on the 1980's, and now 3D Printing seems to be catching on, but we love and prefer the traditional approach of manufacturing mouthpieces.
    Why would you prefer it? CNC allows you to use higher grade materials and is the most precise method of manufacturing. Unless it's about cost, because CNC takes a considerable amount of money on the dealer's part, which would be understandable if that were the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post
    We feel there has never been a better reproduction mouthpiece than what we are going to be offering with the Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces.
    Why do you feel this way? If you're using molds, how is this different than any other molded mouthpiece over the past 50+ years? Or are you saying that for marketing emphasis (which, if you are, that's totally fine. I have no issue with trying to pitch a product. But distinguishing between the two is important, I think). I'm confused, because everything in your post says "these are molds" and you claim you love the "traditional" approach to making mouthpieces...so how can you feel your copies are any better than the dozens of molded copy mouthpieces already out there?


    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post
    Using specifically chosen high grade materials, and manufacturing processes that we have developed over several years of making CE Winds mouthpieces (not CNC or 3D Printing), we are able to replicate these great vintage mouthpieces that are no longer being made due to industry changes in technology and manufacturing.
    What are these high grade materials and manufacturing processes?

    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post
    When you receive your new mouthpieces, you may notice minor cosmetic blemishes which may due to the following factors:
    • a) blemishes in the original used as the master
    • b) small air pockets created during the casting process
    • c) minimal hand finishing in order to maintain original integrity
    How do you expect to claim your copies are identical if they can contain air pockets? In the same sentence, how do you claim they're identical to the originals if there is hand finishing applied? Does your manufacturing process not get them precisely like the originals as claimed above? What does "original integrity" mean?

    I look forward to the answers and best of luck with the pieces.

    - Saxaholic

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Here we go again!...

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    I'd like to hear the answers to these questions as well. I'm a CE winds fan. I have a Legend 1 and the Sig. They are great. However how many times can the slant sig be done? However the prices look good. Its a good time to be trying out new pieces. However I tend to look for original designs.

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Hi Saxaholic,

    Thanks for the questions. This is Brian here with CE Winds posting, FYI. I’ve reread your post several times, as well as more of your posts/reviews/comments on other threads because I wanted to learn more about you as a person. I do not believe I have ever worked with you as a customer (the anonymity of SOTW) – perhaps I have. It’s just the tone of your post leaves me to wonder whether or not there are answers you are looking for, or you are hoping this leads to something else more… entertaining? Apparently with the few comments posted since yours, we are not the only ones who read it that way. Though it may not be answers you are looking for, we will play along because there is an opportunity here to show many things about our company, things that we are proud to have accomplished over the last 9+ years of being in this industry, and past 5 years of learning to manufacture mouthpieces. Due to the length of your post, and time restrictions, I may will not be able to get to all of your questions in one post…. But over time I will try to answer all of your questions with professionalism and courtesy.

    So to start it off….

    Didn't you guys already do this? I know the video makes mention of The Sig and whatever the Meyer piece was called...but weren't those pieces supposed to play like the originals? Now, these ones are supposed to play like the originals, too?? You're going for the same sound concept....again? Sorry it just didn't make sense to me.

    Our original line of mouthpieces, The Tribute Series, are tributes to the great pieces they are modeled after. Though we start with the original as our basis, none of our Tribute Series are copies physically – they can’t be because we’ve applied design changes, added logos, and especially when we started, we had to build the pieces up in order to bring them down, make various tips – in other words, change the design of the original and make it our own. I am not sure of your experience in making mouthpieces, if you have ever made one yourself (but reading some of your past posts it sounds like you have a lot of experience in making mouthpieces - http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthr...t=#post2484664), but there is a process when casting that needs to be go through in order to bring a master from the first generation to a final product. So our “final product” – though similar in concept, is much different in design than the originals. With that being said, we’ve been asked time and time again, and have read the demand over and over again, for someone to actually make a true copy of a mouthpiece. It is VERY difficult to do, to make a copy and maintain the original dimensions, which is why no one has done it, or companies have done it but they have to do extensive hand work to each piece in order to ‘compensate’ for what was lost during the process. What we’ve done with the Pure Vintage, is we have figured out a process of manufacturing them so that way when they are finished, we have little, if anything, to compensate for. The final piece maintains everything that the original has. We are simply fulfilling a void in the market where there have been several requests. These, from what we know, are the only true 1st generation reproduction mouthpieces that are exactly like the originals without touching the facing, baffle, anything on the piece that affects the way it plays – the way it was meant to sound and feel when it was made originally. I will bring this up again, since you did not – we are standing behind our product with a full 30 Day Money Back Guarantee. If our customers don’t agree with what we said, then we will refund them 100% of their purchase price. Many companies won’t do that but we do. We never sell a product to someone and leave them high and dry after the sale.


    How did it take years of preparation and development if you're just copying a piece?? What was there to "develop?"


    We are not “just copying” a piece, we “developed” a manufacturing process that allows us to replicate a mouthpiece to the exact dimensions – inner and outer – this is not something that happened overnight, it happened over 5 years of trial and error, and making tons of mistakes, and spending tons of money. The preparation part comes in because we have spent the past 9 years buying, selling and trading mouthpieces in order to end up with our masters, pieces we feel that are the best of the best, which we have stated previously. I am assuming you are a sax player, to the outside world, people see you playing on stage and probably don’t realize the many hours of preparation and practice you put in to develop your tone, your sound, your ability to read music, play by ear, etc, etc. Well, as a manufacturer of saxophone mouthpieces, we can’t expect the ‘outside world’ to understand how we get from point A to point B – but our customers trust our process and love our results – as does the audience when they hear you play. They don’t necessarily know how you got there, they just are glad you did!

    The only thing "identical" I see are the stampings on the piece, which you might want to check to make sure they're not copyrighted by those respective companies. I checked out the video, to see if it answered any questions. The window looks smaller on your copy piece than the original. And playing wise, the originals sound SIGNIFICANTLY better to my ears.

    This was a comment that I don’t feel the need to respond to – this is just your opinion.


    So...you're using an imperfect mold process that can't possibly transfer exact measurements...then your 'team' is doing 'minor' hand work on them. Who is your team? Is it more than one person who will be doing the hand finishing? What are their credentials? What if the piece needs more hand work to play it's best?

    Our team is our team – and we are proud of each one of them every day for the hard work and dedication to CE Winds. We have a process that is followed by all of our team members to achieve our desired results. When you go out to eat, you order a steak, and a steak shows up at your table, do you want to meet the team that helped it get there? From the rancher who raised the cow, the slaughterhouse who killed it, the truck driver who delivered it, the person who put it in the freezer and the man who cooked it? We employ 4 team members on the mouthpiece manufacturing side of our business, and consult with at least 2 dozen more in our processes. The team and their credentials are hardly of any issue – if it was we wouldn’t have been in business this long, the results we get from them are outstanding – and they get better every day. If a piece needs more hand work – which some may, we will offer it as a B Stock piece – because obviously we cannot sell it as a reproduction piece if we have altered it in any way – so we will disclose that during the sale and sell it as a refaced piece.


    Meaning molding?

    Yes, a molding process specific to making mouthpieces that we developed in house.


    CNC allows you to use higher grade materials

    Does it? Is this statement because of your experience in making mouthpieces – or is it because of something you read? We are in the trenches making mouthpieces on a daily basis, and there is no basis for a claim like this.


    and is the most precise method of manufacturing.

    Is it the most precise method for manufacturing mouthpieces? Or just manufacturing overall. CNC is precise, yes, CNC looks great, yes, but there are things that CNC cannot do. We are all about the industry change, and feel there are some great mouthpieces being made by CNC (we will most likely release some CNC models at some point) – but during our extensive research and face to face meeting with machine shops who specialize in CNC, we asked very specific questions with our designs, and the answers we received caused us not to pursue that route with our Tribute pieces. I could probably go on and on regarding CNC production – the heat generated – what that heat does to the piece – the gravitational pull – the operator – dulling of tooling – all of the potential things that can alter the precision of CNC – are these things you’ve researched and talked to ad nausea with professionals about? We have.

    Unless it's about cost, because CNC takes a considerable amount of money on the dealer's part, which would be understandable if that were the case.

    CNC is widely accessible to anyone wishing or wanting to use the technology. For us it was not a financial decision because using CNC is not out of reach – whether leasing or buying equipment or reaching out to a pro shop. It can be done; we have chosen not to. Maybe someday, but not now.

    Why do you feel this way?

    Should we not? One thing about our company though, is we DO buy mouthpieces from all companies. I can say with all honesty that there are very few, if any, mouthpieces that we (as a company) have not played. Some companies are making great mouthpieces, which is inspiration for us to make a better product. I cannot speak for many other companies, but I am not sure how many of them have tested out our mouthpieces.

    If you're using molds, how is this different than any other molded mouthpiece over the past 50+ years? Or are you saying that for marketing emphasis (which, if you are, that's totally fine. I have no issue with trying to pitch a product. But distinguishing between the two is important, I think). I'm confused, because everything in your post says "these are molds" and you claim you love the "traditional" approach to making mouthpieces...so how can you feel your copies are any better than the dozens of molded copy mouthpieces already out there?

    Are there dozens of molded copy mouthpiece out there? Are there any who claim that they are not refaced by the person/company that made them? We are making the claim that our mouthpieces are as close to the original as anyone has ever gotten, besides the companies that made the originals, originally. Now, I originally wanted to see how many times I could say original in one paragraph, but that would not be too original. We feel ours are better. Period. Time will tell if the market agrees, but we approach this with all confidence that they will… and if they don’t, we will give them a 100% refund. No restocking fees, no questions, no bull.

    What are these high grade materials and manufacturing processes?

    You go get me Colonial Sanders secret recipe, or the Bush Family baked bean recipe, and I may consider sharing more about our process and materials. All kidding aside, we take what we’ve invested in very seriously. It’s not just money, it’s about the time we took to figure this all out. There are no books, classes, anything out there that teaches you how to do this, and other than those who work directly with us, we keep company information like this close to the hip.

    How do you expect to claim your copies are identical if they can contain air pockets?

    May contain air pocket – MAY – not a claim it will, but it may have a tiny, surface pocket – nothing that visibly or by volume would refute the claim that it is identical. Not sure where you are going with this one. 3D Printing leaves much more in way of surface pores than our process does. Even bar stock, as great as it is claimed to be, can contain impurities and air pockets….

    In the same sentence, how do you claim they're identical to the originals if there is hand finishing applied?

    Hand finishing is not done to the facing, table, rails – we remove seams on the body, lightly buff off any flashing on the body, walls, chamber, shank, and polish the rails with a very very fine paper – no ‘real’ facing work is done to these pieces – which contributes to the price that we are able to sell them for – as compared to our Tribute Series pieces where each piece is hand finished (body, facing, etc). All of this is done by hand, not with some fancy, shmancy machines (well, our buffer is a machine but it is held to the buffer by human hands) – hence the hand finishing claim.

    Does your manufacturing process not get them precisely like the originals as claimed above?

    They do – as compared to our original.

    What does "original integrity" mean?

    Original integrity – not altering the state of the copy to be different than the state of the original


    Wow…. I wasn’t sure I would be able to get through that in just one sitting but after reading your post – I see that I have. I wasn’t sure I would have the time today, but I did. I hope that my answers, if not for you, for many other readers, show our passion of being a self-sufficient company making their own products for an industry we love being a part of. We will never make the claim that we are the best thing since the invention of the saxophone – we will leave that to other companies, but we are proud of our products, proud that we are making them in our own shop in the USA, proud that we have been around for the last 5 years making mouthpieces, proud that students, weekenders and professionals choose to play our products. Our goal has always been to make great equipment accessible to all players, and we work to achieve that daily. We have great customer retention, awesome repeat customers, and we try to make it as possible for EVERYONE to get a mouthpiece they can play. Nothing will change that, and from all of the emails we have received since we posted this through various social media outlets – orders, encouragement, excitement, we feel we are staying on the right path.

    Before I posted anything on SOTW, I knew we would be faced with tough questions once we did, and it actually took a little longer to happen than I expected. We know SOTW is not our stomping ground, we don’t focus on it as our primary channel of business – and we don’t want to - we come here OFTEN to read and learn - and chime in when we feel our expertise may help. We wanted to inform the community of the product because we feel strongly that many players here would benefit from it, and because we read WAY more than we post, SOTW was a community where we saw the need (or desire) for a product like this. We were excited to share, are excited to share, despite the known backlash we would probably have gotten from possible skeptics. It is worth it if just a few players find what they have been looking for with our pieces. Are they going to be for everyone? No. That is why we stand behind them 100 %. If they are not, we want to help you find what you are looking for, whether it is through is or even though another company. We are not in this for ourselves, we want to be named among the greatest companies 50-100 years from now, and that is how we are building our business – to pass on to generation to generation.

    Well, I appreciate everyone taking the time to read this response to Saxaholic, and to Saxaholic, I sincerely hope that we were able to answer your questions with professionalism, and that you learn more about us through our answers. Perhaps you had the wrong impression about us as a company or as people, but I hope that has been changed for the better. If this also turns you into a satisfied customer in the near future, then it was well worth the time.

    Peace to all,

    Brian S

    CE Winds
    Ps = Rich, share the popcorn, I LOVE POPCORN!
    CE Winds - Performance when it matters. Custom handmade saxophone mouthpieces, Ft Myers, Florida.

    www.cewinds.com

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    A great reply. I am always willing to learn more about mouthpieces and this is helpful at least to me. I have one CE winds piece now and may try another. Thanks for the thoughtful and in depth reply. Owning several horns I have found for me certain combos just work well and a one size fits all does not seem to work for me. I just got a martin alto from Saxoholic and struggled to find a right piece but when I did wow. thanks again Saxaholic. Many horns gravitate to certain styles of mouthpieces and some are very versatile. Always worth asking what works on here as many very experiences folks can offer up some good starting points. Then we add in the next variable the player which is the largest in my opinion. Keep the passion Brian many appreciate your work. Interesting discussion all. Remake or original I just want something that works well on the horn I am looking to improve and we have a lot of great choices.

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    I just acquired an original/untouched Tenor Otto Link Slant Sig no USA 7* this week funnily enough. So I'm very keen to put your version up against it and see how close it is to the original!

    ps

    just noticed you guys have copied a USA stamped Slant, mmm that's change the game for me.

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post
    The Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    After years of preparation and development, we are so proud to FINALLY announce the pricing and release date of our most recent line of saxophone mouthpieces - Pure Vintage by CE Winds. We expect a release date of June 1st, 2016 with mouthpieces in hand and ready to ship - no wait for the first several dozen customers - we will be able to produce between 20-25 per week, so there should never be a back log or waiting list on orders.


    Pure Vintage Meyer Bros NY Alto 5M - Sale Price $179.00
    Pure Vintage Otto Link Slant Sig Tenor 7* - Sale Price $199.00


    I've tried to upload pictures but I just can't seem to make them small enough, so click the link above and there are a few shots, I will be posting more to the product page once we launch.

    These mouthpieces are so identical to the originals that we are making them in a specially colored material so that they are not sold as originals or original blanks from the factory. The original mouthpieces we are using were all hand picked by our team through 10+ years of buying, selling and trading vintage saxophone mouthpieces. As you know, some vintage mouthpieces are much better than others, and we saved the best ones we could find specifically for this project. The measurements are exact to the original pieces that we are using to make them from. Inner chambers, rail thickness, tables, baffles, everything is exact to the original, or so close that even our gauges cannot detect the differences - even minor cosmetic blemishes from the originals are transferred over to the Pure Vintage mouthpieces. Our team is only removing seam lines and doing minor clean ups on the facings so that they maintain their original measurements.

    These pieces are not CNC or 3D Printed, they are made using similar craftsmanship to the way they were made during their specific eras. We feel CNC was a huge step in the industry when it was introduced on the 1980's, and now 3D Printing seems to be catching on, but we love and prefer the traditional approach of manufacturing mouthpieces.

    We feel there has never been a better reproduction mouthpiece than what we are going to be offering with the Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces. We will be offering our usual 30 Day Money Back Guarantee (from the day you receive your mouthpiece) to see for yourself. Compare it to your original, compare it to a friends original, play it for 30 Days and see what you think! At the price we are able to offer these great mouthpieces at, just above what modern production mouthpieces are selling for - along with our Money Back Guarantee, there is very little, if any, risk to checking out the new Pure Vintage mouthpieces by CE Winds!

    From our recent blog:

    The vintage saxophone mouthpiece market has never been higher and more out of reach for most saxophone players – with certain mouthpiece models selling in the $2,000 - $3000 range! Some saxophone players we’ve talked to said they would pay $1,000, $2,000 or more IF the mouthpiece they were buying was everything they wanted and more – but who wants to take that type of risk?

    Through many years of buying, selling and trading saxophone mouthpieces, we have held on to most of the mouthpieces that we really consider the best of the best of the best – therefore making it easy for you to finally get that mouthpiece you’ve been looking for but never wanted to buy because the price was far too great to take the chance!

    Using specifically chosen high grade materials, and manufacturing processes that we have developed over several years of making CE Winds mouthpieces (not CNC or 3D Printing), we are able to replicate these great vintage mouthpieces that are no longer being made due to industry changes in technology and manufacturing. These mouthpieces are purely vintage – they look, feel, play, and respond just like the original design that they are modeled from – we guarantee it! They look so much like the original designs that we are making them in a very specific color so that they will not ever be sold as originals or original blanks.

    Our plan is to release several models / sizes over the years. We are launching the line with a 1960’s era Otto Link Tone Edge Slant Sig 7* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece as well as a 1940’s Meyer Bros New York 5M Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece.

    Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpiece - Meyer Bros Alto
    (MSRP 249.00) Sale price $179.00

    Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpiece Otto Link Tenor
    (MSRP $279.00) Sale Price $199.00

    When you receive your new mouthpieces, you may notice minor cosmetic blemishes which may due to the following factors:
    • a) blemishes in the original used as the master
    • b) small air pockets created during the casting process
    • c) minimal hand finishing in order to maintain original integrity


    Every mouthpiece goes through the same point check / play test process as each CE Winds Handmade Saxophone Mouthpiece – mouthpiece tables, tips and rails checked, & test played. We also offer a 30 Day Money Back Guarantee on each mouthpiece purchased - with CE Winds we want to make sure you are satisfied with your purchase!
    Where/how does one make an order for one or both of these?

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    Forum Contributor 2016 musekatcher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Interesting exchange. A couple of observations:

    Isn't CNC more of a measurements and controls technology, not so much a machining process? And is it more about reducing rejections in a high volume environment or reducing switching time for multi-pass machining?

    Assuming a typical tenor mouthpiece requires 3 ounces of hard rubber, and a market price of $200 per mouthpiece, that's $1100 per pound for the final product. That's in line with precision machined parts in the aerospace industry for very small quantities. Shops will trade the cost of programming a CNC versus manual machining, depending on the order volume I believe.

    From what I've gleaned, mouthpiece technology was mastered decades ago - baffles, beaks, chambers, materials lay and so on, as demonstrated by all the replicas being produced. What appears to be active, is production technology. Its interesting that the small producers are investing in high-production number techniques, machining and processes, while the name brand mass producers are routinely producing [and shipping!!!] defective products? The basic math seems to be inverted, as are the market forces.

    The color looks familiar, but I can't place it, unless its nylon or delrin with a modifier? Best of luck with the new products -
    Best, Jim

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Vary well put response, much respect for your company now haha

    Also vary excited to try this new piece and how it compares to the new-ish Otto Link Vintage series and the other so called "copies" out there!

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxmantrader View Post
    Also vary excited to try this new piece and how it compares to the new-ish Otto Link Vintage series and the other so called "copies" out there!
    Actually, that brings up a question/reaction that I had. I assume everyone is familiar with this: http://www.jjbabbitt.com/ottoLinkVintage.htm.

    I found the names of these new CE Winds pieces ... surprising:
    • Pure Vintage Meyer Bros Alto
    • Pure Vintage Otto Link Tenor

    In the video on the CE Winds blog, Mr. Wigginton says this: "We're actually gonna be maybe scratching off the logos, or doing something -- we don't want to infringe on Otto Link or Meyer for any whatso [sic] reason at all" (2:52). In view of that comment, which I think was appropriate, what was the rationale behind the selection of these names?

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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Brian,

    Thanks so much for your response. It means a great deal to me and I appreciate your time and efforts.

    I can understand why you're exhausted. You used a ton of words to make 4 points, which I've shown below:

    Your Tribute series was SUPPOSED to play like the originals, but these new ones ACTUALLY do. Many thanks for the clarification, but I'm sure you could understand why that's confusing.

    You refuse to specify any materials you use. Could be cheap plastic, could be rubber, or wood, or nylon, or a mix of materials. Why hide this? I didn't ask for a recipe. I asked if it was plastic or rubber. Drake uses a ceramic/plastic resin mix and states it as such...he doesn't divulge his exact "recipe"....but he at least lets his customers know what's in the mouthpiece he is selling. If we're going to put it in our mouths, we deserve to know what it is.

    You refuse to name your team or their credentials. They could be kids making $10 an hour to put sandpaper to mouthpieces, or they could be skilled professionals. We'll just have to take your word for it? Why would you hide this? If you're proud of them, why not be able to name them and their credentials?? If you're concerned about privacy, skip the names, but surely they have some notable professional experience? You realize that having 4 different people do ANY type of hand work on mouthpieces (whether you deem it minor or not) can greatly affect the outcome of the piece, right? As mouthpiece makers, you know that even the smallest deviation somewhere can cause a mouthpiece to play differently. You're telling us that 4 different people could potentially touch these mouthpieces with sand paper? Sorry, that doesn't shout "consistency."

    You claim your process is a molding process but is brand new to the mouthpiece world; that you solely developed it in house and it creates the most accurate measurements in a mouthpiece ever seen thus far in the industry.
    If your process is that revolutionary, have you applied for any patents on it? Seems like you should definitely protect yourselves just in case. This is probably the major thing I have issue with; companies who claim they have discovered something new that no one else in the entire world knows about....but they can't share any details on it and it has to stay secret. It smells like snake oil salesman type of stuff. I believe in my heart that you guys are better people than that, so I'm hoping you'll share your knowledge, or at least the basics of it, with the saxophone world.

    The only thing I don't appreciate about your post is your insinuation about my intention. I can understand why you might read it a different way, but if you did read my past posts, you would know my ONLY interest is the truth. I don't sugar coat things and I don't care if a few feathers get ruffled. This community has seen, time and time again, snake oil salesman pitch their wares with dubious claims about many different things. I find that the most transparent of those companies turn out to be the most successful. Hell, if I try the mouthpiece some day and it turns out to be the best thing in the world, I will use it 100%. I've been skeptical of things before and proven wrong, so I am always open to that possibility.

    I think you guys should be proud of your conduct with your customers, as I've never seen anything to show you are anything less than good, decent people. But when you begin to hide things about your products, and dodge questions instead of directly answering them, that makes it look like you're not being completely honest about something.

    I look forward to your response, hopefully with less fluff this time.

    - Saxaholic

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    Cool Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by CE Winds View Post
    Hi Saxaholic,

    Thanks for the questions. This is Brian here with CE Winds posting, FYI. I’ve reread your post several times, as well as more of your posts/reviews/comments on other threads because I wanted to learn more about you as a person. I do not believe I have ever worked with you as a customer (the anonymity of SOTW) – perhaps I have. It’s just the tone of your post leaves me to wonder whether or not there are answers you are looking for, or you are hoping this leads to something else more… entertaining? Apparently with the few comments posted since yours, we are not the only ones who read it that way. Though it may not be answers you are looking for, we will play along because there is an opportunity here to show many things about our company, things that we are proud to have accomplished over the last 9+ years of being in this industry, and past 5 years of learning to manufacture mouthpieces. Due to the length of your post, and time restrictions, I may will not be able to get to all of your questions in one post…. But over time I will try to answer all of your questions with professionalism and courtesy.

    So to start it off….

    Didn't you guys already do this? I know the video makes mention of The Sig and whatever the Meyer piece was called...but weren't those pieces supposed to play like the originals? Now, these ones are supposed to play like the originals, too?? You're going for the same sound concept....again? Sorry it just didn't make sense to me.

    Our original line of mouthpieces, The Tribute Series, are tributes to the great pieces they are modeled after. Though we start with the original as our basis, none of our Tribute Series are copies physically – they can’t be because we’ve applied design changes, added logos, and especially when we started, we had to build the pieces up in order to bring them down, make various tips – in other words, change the design of the original and make it our own. I am not sure of your experience in making mouthpieces, if you have ever made one yourself (but reading some of your past posts it sounds like you have a lot of experience in making mouthpieces - http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthr...t=#post2484664), but there is a process when casting that needs to be go through in order to bring a master from the first generation to a final product. So our “final product” – though similar in concept, is much different in design than the originals. With that being said, we’ve been asked time and time again, and have read the demand over and over again, for someone to actually make a true copy of a mouthpiece. It is VERY difficult to do, to make a copy and maintain the original dimensions, which is why no one has done it, or companies have done it but they have to do extensive hand work to each piece in order to ‘compensate’ for what was lost during the process. What we’ve done with the Pure Vintage, is we have figured out a process of manufacturing them so that way when they are finished, we have little, if anything, to compensate for. The final piece maintains everything that the original has. We are simply fulfilling a void in the market where there have been several requests. These, from what we know, are the only true 1st generation reproduction mouthpieces that are exactly like the originals without touching the facing, baffle, anything on the piece that affects the way it plays – the way it was meant to sound and feel when it was made originally. I will bring this up again, since you did not – we are standing behind our product with a full 30 Day Money Back Guarantee. If our customers don’t agree with what we said, then we will refund them 100% of their purchase price. Many companies won’t do that but we do. We never sell a product to someone and leave them high and dry after the sale.


    How did it take years of preparation and development if you're just copying a piece?? What was there to "develop?"


    We are not “just copying” a piece, we “developed” a manufacturing process that allows us to replicate a mouthpiece to the exact dimensions – inner and outer – this is not something that happened overnight, it happened over 5 years of trial and error, and making tons of mistakes, and spending tons of money. The preparation part comes in because we have spent the past 9 years buying, selling and trading mouthpieces in order to end up with our masters, pieces we feel that are the best of the best, which we have stated previously. I am assuming you are a sax player, to the outside world, people see you playing on stage and probably don’t realize the many hours of preparation and practice you put in to develop your tone, your sound, your ability to read music, play by ear, etc, etc. Well, as a manufacturer of saxophone mouthpieces, we can’t expect the ‘outside world’ to understand how we get from point A to point B – but our customers trust our process and love our results – as does the audience when they hear you play. They don’t necessarily know how you got there, they just are glad you did!

    The only thing "identical" I see are the stampings on the piece, which you might want to check to make sure they're not copyrighted by those respective companies. I checked out the video, to see if it answered any questions. The window looks smaller on your copy piece than the original. And playing wise, the originals sound SIGNIFICANTLY better to my ears.

    This was a comment that I don’t feel the need to respond to – this is just your opinion.


    So...you're using an imperfect mold process that can't possibly transfer exact measurements...then your 'team' is doing 'minor' hand work on them. Who is your team? Is it more than one person who will be doing the hand finishing? What are their credentials? What if the piece needs more hand work to play it's best?

    Our team is our team – and we are proud of each one of them every day for the hard work and dedication to CE Winds. We have a process that is followed by all of our team members to achieve our desired results. When you go out to eat, you order a steak, and a steak shows up at your table, do you want to meet the team that helped it get there? From the rancher who raised the cow, the slaughterhouse who killed it, the truck driver who delivered it, the person who put it in the freezer and the man who cooked it? We employ 4 team members on the mouthpiece manufacturing side of our business, and consult with at least 2 dozen more in our processes. The team and their credentials are hardly of any issue – if it was we wouldn’t have been in business this long, the results we get from them are outstanding – and they get better every day. If a piece needs more hand work – which some may, we will offer it as a B Stock piece – because obviously we cannot sell it as a reproduction piece if we have altered it in any way – so we will disclose that during the sale and sell it as a refaced piece.


    Meaning molding?

    Yes, a molding process specific to making mouthpieces that we developed in house.


    CNC allows you to use higher grade materials

    Does it? Is this statement because of your experience in making mouthpieces – or is it because of something you read? We are in the trenches making mouthpieces on a daily basis, and there is no basis for a claim like this.


    and is the most precise method of manufacturing.

    Is it the most precise method for manufacturing mouthpieces? Or just manufacturing overall. CNC is precise, yes, CNC looks great, yes, but there are things that CNC cannot do. We are all about the industry change, and feel there are some great mouthpieces being made by CNC (we will most likely release some CNC models at some point) – but during our extensive research and face to face meeting with machine shops who specialize in CNC, we asked very specific questions with our designs, and the answers we received caused us not to pursue that route with our Tribute pieces. I could probably go on and on regarding CNC production – the heat generated – what that heat does to the piece – the gravitational pull – the operator – dulling of tooling – all of the potential things that can alter the precision of CNC – are these things you’ve researched and talked to ad nausea with professionals about? We have.

    Unless it's about cost, because CNC takes a considerable amount of money on the dealer's part, which would be understandable if that were the case.

    CNC is widely accessible to anyone wishing or wanting to use the technology. For us it was not a financial decision because using CNC is not out of reach – whether leasing or buying equipment or reaching out to a pro shop. It can be done; we have chosen not to. Maybe someday, but not now.

    Why do you feel this way?

    Should we not? One thing about our company though, is we DO buy mouthpieces from all companies. I can say with all honesty that there are very few, if any, mouthpieces that we (as a company) have not played. Some companies are making great mouthpieces, which is inspiration for us to make a better product. I cannot speak for many other companies, but I am not sure how many of them have tested out our mouthpieces.

    If you're using molds, how is this different than any other molded mouthpiece over the past 50+ years? Or are you saying that for marketing emphasis (which, if you are, that's totally fine. I have no issue with trying to pitch a product. But distinguishing between the two is important, I think). I'm confused, because everything in your post says "these are molds" and you claim you love the "traditional" approach to making mouthpieces...so how can you feel your copies are any better than the dozens of molded copy mouthpieces already out there?

    Are there dozens of molded copy mouthpiece out there? Are there any who claim that they are not refaced by the person/company that made them? We are making the claim that our mouthpieces are as close to the original as anyone has ever gotten, besides the companies that made the originals, originally. Now, I originally wanted to see how many times I could say original in one paragraph, but that would not be too original. We feel ours are better. Period. Time will tell if the market agrees, but we approach this with all confidence that they will… and if they don’t, we will give them a 100% refund. No restocking fees, no questions, no bull.

    What are these high grade materials and manufacturing processes?

    You go get me Colonial Sanders secret recipe, or the Bush Family baked bean recipe, and I may consider sharing more about our process and materials. All kidding aside, we take what we’ve invested in very seriously. It’s not just money, it’s about the time we took to figure this all out. There are no books, classes, anything out there that teaches you how to do this, and other than those who work directly with us, we keep company information like this close to the hip.

    How do you expect to claim your copies are identical if they can contain air pockets?

    May contain air pocket – MAY – not a claim it will, but it may have a tiny, surface pocket – nothing that visibly or by volume would refute the claim that it is identical. Not sure where you are going with this one. 3D Printing leaves much more in way of surface pores than our process does. Even bar stock, as great as it is claimed to be, can contain impurities and air pockets….

    In the same sentence, how do you claim they're identical to the originals if there is hand finishing applied?

    Hand finishing is not done to the facing, table, rails – we remove seams on the body, lightly buff off any flashing on the body, walls, chamber, shank, and polish the rails with a very very fine paper – no ‘real’ facing work is done to these pieces – which contributes to the price that we are able to sell them for – as compared to our Tribute Series pieces where each piece is hand finished (body, facing, etc). All of this is done by hand, not with some fancy, shmancy machines (well, our buffer is a machine but it is held to the buffer by human hands) – hence the hand finishing claim.

    Does your manufacturing process not get them precisely like the originals as claimed above?

    They do – as compared to our original.

    What does "original integrity" mean?

    Original integrity – not altering the state of the copy to be different than the state of the original


    Wow…. I wasn’t sure I would be able to get through that in just one sitting but after reading your post – I see that I have. I wasn’t sure I would have the time today, but I did. I hope that my answers, if not for you, for many other readers, show our passion of being a self-sufficient company making their own products for an industry we love being a part of. We will never make the claim that we are the best thing since the invention of the saxophone – we will leave that to other companies, but we are proud of our products, proud that we are making them in our own shop in the USA, proud that we have been around for the last 5 years making mouthpieces, proud that students, weekenders and professionals choose to play our products. Our goal has always been to make great equipment accessible to all players, and we work to achieve that daily. We have great customer retention, awesome repeat customers, and we try to make it as possible for EVERYONE to get a mouthpiece they can play. Nothing will change that, and from all of the emails we have received since we posted this through various social media outlets – orders, encouragement, excitement, we feel we are staying on the right path.

    Before I posted anything on SOTW, I knew we would be faced with tough questions once we did, and it actually took a little longer to happen than I expected. We know SOTW is not our stomping ground, we don’t focus on it as our primary channel of business – and we don’t want to - we come here OFTEN to read and learn - and chime in when we feel our expertise may help. We wanted to inform the community of the product because we feel strongly that many players here would benefit from it, and because we read WAY more than we post, SOTW was a community where we saw the need (or desire) for a product like this. We were excited to share, are excited to share, despite the known backlash we would probably have gotten from possible skeptics. It is worth it if just a few players find what they have been looking for with our pieces. Are they going to be for everyone? No. That is why we stand behind them 100 %. If they are not, we want to help you find what you are looking for, whether it is through is or even though another company. We are not in this for ourselves, we want to be named among the greatest companies 50-100 years from now, and that is how we are building our business – to pass on to generation to generation.

    Well, I appreciate everyone taking the time to read this response to Saxaholic, and to Saxaholic, I sincerely hope that we were able to answer your questions with professionalism, and that you learn more about us through our answers. Perhaps you had the wrong impression about us as a company or as people, but I hope that has been changed for the better. If this also turns you into a satisfied customer in the near future, then it was well worth the time.

    Peace to all,

    Brian S

    CE Winds
    Ps = Rich, share the popcorn, I LOVE POPCORN!
    WITH LOTS Of BUTTER!!!!!
    845-361-9353

  22. #20
    Merchant CE Winds's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pure Vintage Saxophone Mouthpieces by CE Winds

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxaholic View Post

    - Saxaholic

    Your Tribute series was SUPPOSED to play like the originals, but these new ones ACTUALLY do. Many thanks for the clarification, but I'm sure you could understand why that's confusing.

    I’ll go ahead and quote one of your posts on this one: That's not what was said at all. Think as you'd like. Saxaholic. 11/27/2016

    Honestly though, we never said that in our post. Take 10 vintage otto links of the same size and same era, and there is a good chance 4 or 5 will play or feel different. We know this because we’ve tested it ourselves. We do not only test ourselves, we have a network of professional sax players that work with us in test playing and prototyping. It’s always done on consensus.

    You refuse to specify any materials you use. Could be cheap plastic, could be rubber, or wood, or nylon, or a mix of materials. Why hide this? I didn't ask for a recipe. I asked if it was plastic or rubber. Drake uses a ceramic/plastic resin mix and states it as such...he doesn't divulge his exact "recipe"....but he at least lets his customers know what's in the mouthpiece he is selling. If we're going to put it in our mouths, we deserve to know what it is.

    We use a resin composite in these models.

    You refuse to name your team or their credentials. They could be kids making $10 an hour to put sandpaper to mouthpieces, or they could be skilled professionals. We'll just have to take your word for it? Why would you hide this? If you're proud of them, why not be able to name them and their credentials?? If you're concerned about privacy, skip the names, but surely they have some notable professional experience? You realize that having 4 different people do ANY type of hand work on mouthpieces (whether you deem it minor or not) can greatly affect the outcome of the piece, right? As mouthpiece makers, you know that even the smallest deviation somewhere can cause a mouthpiece to play differently. You're telling us that 4 different people could potentially touch these mouthpieces with sand paper? Sorry, that doesn't shout "consistency."


    Please don’t hold us to a different standard than any other company in this industry or any industry. Who made your saxophone and what were their qualifications? Your Car? Your House?

    You claim your process is a molding process but is brand new to the mouthpiece world; that you solely developed it in house and it creates the most accurate measurements in a mouthpiece ever seen thus far in the industry.
    If your process is that revolutionary, have you applied for any patents on it? Seems like you should definitely protect yourselves just in case. This is probably the major thing I have issue with; companies who claim they have discovered something new that no one else in the entire world knows about....but they can't share any details on it and it has to stay secret. It smells like snake oil salesman type of stuff. I believe in my heart that you guys are better people than that, so I'm hoping you'll share your knowledge, or at least the basics of it, with the saxophone world.


    We share much with those we choose to share with. Artists, associates, usually it’s through personal contact, not through forums. No better way to protect yourself than to talk less and listen more.

    The only thing I don't appreciate about your post is your insinuation about my intention. I can understand why you might read it a different way, but if you did read my past posts, you would know my ONLY interest is the truth. I don't sugar coat things and I don't care if a few feathers get ruffled. This community has seen, time and time again, snake oil salesman pitch their wares with dubious claims about many different things. I find that the most transparent of those companies turn out to be the most successful. Hell, if I try the mouthpiece some day and it turns out to be the best thing in the world, I will use it 100%. I've been skeptical of things before and proven wrong, so I am always open to that possibility.

    I call to question your intention only due to the tone of your post. I didn’t mean it to be a personal dig at you, it just felt like a personal attack towards us. I apologize if I took your tone the wrong way.

    I think you guys should be proud of your conduct with your customers, as I've never seen anything to show you are anything less than good, decent people. But when you begin to hide things about your products, and dodge questions instead of directly answering them, that makes it look like you're not being completely honest about something.

    I look forward to your response, hopefully with less fluff this time.


    We appreciate that. We are proud of our conduct, of our products, of our business, and also proud that we will work hard to win one more new loyal customer. And perhaps one day, we will.

    Peace,
    Brian
    CE Winds - Performance when it matters. Custom handmade saxophone mouthpieces, Ft Myers, Florida.

    www.cewinds.com

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