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Opinions on late King Super 20 "USA" alto

5K views 12 replies 8 participants last post by  Fader 
#1 ·
I have the option of purchasing a late King Super 20 alto from around the 1980s and would like some input on how they play. Thanks!
 
#2 ·
I love mine....take a tuner and check for intonation....but if it needs pads or has leaks the tuner wont help, when I get some leaks or my neck needs tightening it plays out of tune. Great sound! The sterling silver neck and bell with the Gold interior bell has a quality sound and really projects.
 
#3 ·
I love mine too. But, i found it sounds better with an older King neck. The folks at the White company forgot (or changed) the best way to make these necks. They even moved the octave pip location. I'm not the only one here who has had similar experience. When you get a good S20, it is more responsive and louder than any Mark VI. Listen to the early Cannonball records.
 
#4 ·
I agree with Soybean that after playing a good Super 20, everything else (with the exception of a Keilwerth New King) sounds so small.
 
#5 ·
I just received my new Super 20 800xxx Alto from Junkdude Music in Pickerington Ohio yesterday. A SWEET Playing horn. I've owned many; Yamaha 62, Mark VI, Super Action 80, Zephyr... After only one day of playing, it does play wonderfully. Given the Older Super 20s I've played maybe had a slightly "fuller" sound, the later ones are no slouch at all in comparison. Same ergonomics, same overall character. Just take it to a good repairman and get a good set-up done and it'll save you lots of money over an older one. The only reason I'd even consider an earlier model is for nostalgia/market value issues. But again, I'm telling you that the later models are literally THE SAME HORNS without the pearls and flashy crap that has no impact from a playing perspective. Take it for what it's worth, but as a Proud Cincinnati Conservatory of Music Jazz Studies Grad, I've found these later models to have slightly better intonation. They do require a bit more mouthpiece trial and error for sure, but once you find the right combination they are just as sweet as any of the "Golden age" Super 20s!
 
#8 ·
I'm telling you that the later models are literally THE SAME HORNS without the pearls and flashy crap...
Whoa right there! There is no flashy CRAP on a full pearls Super 20. This ain't no Stone Series implement.



Given the Older Super 20s I've played maybe had a slightly "fuller" sound...
They do require a bit more mouthpiece trial and error for sure, but once you find the right combination they are just as sweet as any of the "Golden age" Super 20s!
Well, which is it? "Fuller" sounding, or "just as sweet"? :twisted:

Enjoy your horn. I'm sure you will derive much satisfaction from it for years to come.
 
#9 ·
I think the S20's from different time periods are quite different (More than just pearls and engraving). I am particularly fond of the ones made in the 60's. Or at least I played a number of them before buying and ended up choosing an early 60's one. It seemed (to me) to have slightly better ergos (Notably the pinky table) and intonation than the 50's models, but retained the under-slung octave mechanism. Tone is always subjective, but I have been impressed with the "punch" of mine... I think moving from the double socket neck was a good idea too. Of course the reality is that there are probably awesome S20's from all years of production....Every sax is different enough to have its own personality. And the ones with pearls are absolutely beautiful...Great pic Doc!
 
#11 ·
Yes, that's the bottom line - the various series Supers are quite different. No need for anyone to denigrate them, just pick the one that works for you.

That pic is from Barnard Repair, where I bought the horn. Great selection of Super 20 horns, great work - we had a fun transaction, and I have a super Super that is a joy to play on a gig.
 
#10 ·
I've had the recent opportunity to play three Super 20 tenors, all in excellent condition, and the two later ones just repadded or mostly repadded by a skilled repair person (metal resonators, high quality pads, lots of shellac behind them, all loose rods tightened up).
The 39x,xxx belongs to my son, and has older pads, but still plays really well. It tunes somewhat differently than the Eastlake and later ones.
The 50x,xxx Silversonic still has the underslung neck, but tunes (for me anyway) exactly like the really late one (87X,XXX Silversonic).
Also, the latter two are (for me) interchangeable in terms of sound. If I closed my eyes and someone handed me one of the horns, I couldn't
tell the difference, until I checked for the high F# key, actually maybe the slightly different neck.
The differences, aside from neck and tuning:
1) the 87X,XXX has cheaper lacquer and and plating on the keys, so it is the most worn looking of the three
2) The 87X,XXX with the "normal" (not underslung) neck has the high F#. I like this feature, some people avoid it
3) Relative to some of the earlier Super 20s (at least judging from the altos), the late ones have fully articulated pinky pads (any key will play G#)
4) All three necks are slightly different, with the 50X,XXX underslung being the longest, which slightly changes how you hold the horn.
5) Hard to know which horn had been played more, but someone played the 87X,XXX a lot. There were quite a few loose rods that needed swedging.
I would guess that it came from the factory with some issues in this area, but it still played really well on old pads. The pads got changed out because all the
closed tone holes were due for replacement, and tightening everything up required adjustment of the whole main stack, but there was no glue under the old pads to allow this.
6) I wonder if the Cleveland pads were better installed, with enough shellac, to allow adjustment?
I will probably keep the 87X,XXX and sell the 50X,XXX, but could go either way. All three horns are terrific.
 
#12 ·
Don't get me wrong, those older super 20's with the Pearls and Engraving are drop dead gorgeous!!! "Crap" was not intended to degrade them in ANY way (I apologize for my choice of wording.) But, overall, the older vs. later models really don't show drastic differences in overall playing characteristics on the Altos I've played. The tenors, however, were drastic for my personal take. The older ones definitely sounded much better. I'm thrilled with my horn despite it's later serial number. Has a very "Present" sound and have a few more mouthpieces on the way to really tweak it to my personal taste.
 
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