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Conn micro tuner question

11K views 52 replies 15 participants last post by  sandster 
#1 ·
Hi, have any of you ever fixed your micro-tuner so that it no longer turns?

My sax has been to my repairer and is working beautifully... with the tuner fairly tight down, and with the mouthpiece on fully... in order to be in tune with other instruments the tuner needs to be out quite a long way - and the mpc is also not on the cork as far as it could be - being so far up you can imagine the tuner is now loose and this affects the lowest notes, making them very growly which is more than annoying.

I guess there's 2 options - one lock up the micro-tuner at the correct point, or, attempt to get hold of a different crook without the micro-tuner - which I'm imagining would be like getting hold of hens teeth!!
 
#2 ·
they do make necks for conn without the micro tuner....i have sold a couple for this purpose...
these ones....

http://secondhandsaxes.com.au/images/necks/conn 14m.jpg

when using the micro tuner necks,one must have the mouthpiece all the way onto the cork till it can go no further...then use the tuner from there...
i have never had a problem tuning a conn with micro-tuner...

cheers,philip
 
#5 ·
If I use the tuner with the mpc on fully then the tuner is almost coming off the sax before she's in tune with other instruments! I have found the mpc needs to be about 8mm up, then the tuner is still a fair way up but almost on enough that it's not *too* wobbly!
Are the necks on your link specifically for Conn C's? What sort of price would one be?
 
#6 ·
With the mpc on fully, and the tuner too far out it growls on the lower notes - but, if the tuner is on at a decent point then she plays very well - she's set up exactly as she should be throughout the instrument - just not in tune with other instruments even if she's in tune with herself!!
 
#4 ·
You should be able to screw the microtuner all the way in so that it's tight and then just move the the mouthpiece in and out on the cork to adjust tuning as with any alto without microtuner.

Put teflon tape on the cork to tighten up the mouthpiece, but if your mouthpiece is wobbling off the end of the gooseneck and still tuning sharp, it probably has too small a chamber.

I went through this years ago with a JodyJazz HR*. Fine mouthpiece, on the right sax, but on my 6M it was playing sharp as buggery, because of the narrow chamber.

Try a big chambered piece, like a MacSax D-Jazz or a Sopranoplanet Alma, or an Otto Link SMS or whatever one takes your fancy.
 
#7 ·
You should be able to screw the microtuner all the way in so that it's tight and then just move the the mouthpiece in and out on the cork to adjust tuning as with any alto without microtuner.

Put teflon tape on the cork to tighten up the mouthpiece, but if your mouthpiece is wobbling off the end of the gooseneck and still tuning sharp, it probably has too small a chamber.

I went through this years ago with a JodyJazz HR*. Fine mouthpiece, on the right sax, but on my 6M it was playing sharp as buggery, because of the narrow chamber.

Try a big chambered piece, like a MacSax D-Jazz or a Sopranoplanet Alma, or an Otto Link SMS or whatever one takes your fancy.
I've recently got a Morgan C piece which I actually really like, plays very well.. but tuning is proving to be a bit of a sod! I had a similar issue when I used an Alto piece - has a Selmer piece which was ok, but a bit thin and reedy compared to the Morgan. It too me a while to sort the tuning with the alto piece as well but that wasn't as much of a challenge as the Morgan is proving to be! I'm going to put some ptfe on the cork to tighten it up as being not full on the cork means it is a tad looser than I'd like it to be!
 
#8 ·
Wait - are we talking a C Melody? That adds more issues. FWIW, the micro tuner really shouldn't contribute to any part of the intonation issue. Its strictly an adjustment. The mouthpiece and effective length are probably at work regardless of which horn it is. The C melody is specifically problematic, due to the lack of mouthpiece options for matching. Also, not sure what "growling" means, but if its warbling like a leak, you may have a leak at the micro tuner at full extention.
 
#9 ·
Yes, I'm talking C-melody - perhaps should have said but as I posted in the C forum didn't think about specifying!!
The growling could be described as warbling... at that low end of the scale it does sound like a growl rather than getting a clean note! It's definitely to do with the micro-tuner - I've marked on the tuner where it needs to be to keep in tune, and having just taken the tuner apart it's possible to see why it's loose - it's literally as its limit!! I am now using a C mpc on it, a Morgan as I mentioned before. Really tempted to clean up the micro tuner and then put some glue on the thread before I screw it back on to where I need it to be. I'm not sure what else I can do to stop the leaks on the tuner given it has to be so far out to get the tuning right.
 
#15 ·
I've started on giving it a service myself - found this article which is a help: http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/ConnMicrotuner.htm - says on there to use a copper grease (the sort used for vehicles) so will aim to get hold of some of that soon. While I'm about it I'm tempted to change the neck cork for a slightly thicker one as that would sort the mpc leakage issues and make it fit more snugly anyway - have done quite a few neck corks in the last few years so that is not beyond me lol!!
 
#17 ·
Apologies, aquila. I thought it was a Conn alto. I saw the thread in the "New Posts" list and clicked on the title without even looking at the forum name.

No wonder your alto mouthpiece has to be right out the end of the cork - the chamber is definitely too small for a C-melody. I have two C-melody mouthpieces - the original Conn piece which came with my 1923 Conn (which gives a very sweet tone, but not enough volume) and a "Faxx" HR piece which I bought new on the interwebs. The Faxx piece is okay, but pretty bland, tone-wise. Aural vanilla. I've never tried a Morgan - how is the response you get from yours ?

I know a lot of guys like to use alto pieces on their C-melodies, but I prefer to use a tenor mouthpiece, as a C-melody is in fact a tenor sax, and a tenor piece gives it a broader tone. The piece I use on it is a metal one - a MacSax FJIII 8 (.110"), which has a fairly large chamber - but even then I have the microtuner wound out to just over halfway. Alternatively I use a metal Robusto 8* (.115"). Both of these are Eric Falcon pieces and both give pretty even pitch througout the instrument. The bottom notes can be fractionally sharp but can be lipped down easily; if some altissimo tones are a bit flat they can be squeezed up, no problem. In fact, it's the same lip adjustments as you make on many vintage Bb tenors !
 
#18 ·
as a C-melody is in fact a tenor sax,
hmmmmmm.....my understanding was that when the C-Melody had the tenor shaped neck,then it was a C-Melody tenor....and when it had the alto style neck,like this one surely is,then its an c-melody alto.......

thoughts?.....

also,a player that i know,used a brilhart tonolin alto mpc for these C-melody's.....?

cheers,philip
 
#22 ·
Yay! New cork fitted - and even considering the lack of grease at present, no leaks with everything assembled as it should be! I've put on a slightly thicker cork which started off being too thick, after a bit of sanding back I've got it so the mouthpiece is on very snugly but not as far on as before - this in theory is going to mean I can have the micro-tuner further on than it was before! Just about to test the theory, but feeling hopeful that I might have got it all sorted apart from the need to go and buy some grease tomorrow :)
 
#25 ·
I have a Conn C melody with the straight neck and a Morgan 5 C melody mouthpiece with no tuning issues. If wobble is the problem, the tubing (very thin, be careful) can be slightly expanded to have it fit snuggly. You may need to have a brass guy expand it to fit well. As a final resort, you can always pull the neck out at the body. You should also contact Alan Tucker in Dorset. He is "Csax" here at SOTW. Alan is the expert on C melodies and not that far from you.
 
#27 ·
Does yours have the micro tuner as well Bruce? If so, where does your mpc sit on the cork/where do you have the tuner positioned to play in tune with other instruments?
I'm aiming to get some grease today (really hoping my home town will have someone who'll sell it!) so I can see if that gives the final fix it needs! Crossing fingers!
 
#30 ·
Ah dear me… Thanks for straightening me out, aquila! Posts corrected.

Which C-sop do you have ?
:) That's kind of you - wasn't expecting you to - as I say, I wouldn't expect you to know my gender from my forum name!!

My C-sop is a mystery! Alan Csax has tried to help me identify her origins, but unfortunately she lacks any makers mark whatever - she's nickel plated (I think) - my repairer thinks she's circa 19-teens in terms of age, and she's really well made. Not only that but given how bloody difficult they're meant to be for tuning - and given that my Conn has been a right royal pain - she's actually pretty good on tuning! She came to me originally in a wooden box that looks like it's been in the military... she's been played a lot - certainly a lot of plating wear would indicate that. it took me several years to decide to get her properly restored as I really wasn't certain whether she'd be worth doing or not - I'd had a bit of a tinker on her but as I'm no sax tech you can imagine it wasn't entirely successful lol!
I got lucky as well because the tech I go to had a drawer of odd mouthpieces etc - happened to have one, complete with lig, which just works really nicely on my C-sop, and the bore of it suggests it actually *is* from a C-sop instrument, though it lacks any makers mark too! The mpc supplied with the sax was a heap of rubbish - was a Bb sop piece which didn't give the right intonation at all.
Anyway, got her restored to last summer and she's a dream, so pleased I got her sorted - and my sax tech likes me for having asked her to do it!!
 
#31 ·
That's a great story, and a mystery well worth solving. If Csax can't identify her origins, you could send a set of photos to Joe Giardullo of sopranoplanet.com. He's also a member here. No one knows more about sopranos than he does. He might recognise a tell in the keywork, for example.
 
#35 ·
Hello Aquila,
Glad to hear you're a C fan too. BTW, my conn straight crook C mel plays well in tune with the microtuner about midlands of its total travel and my C mpc fully home against it. I did disassemble the MT a few years ago and clean, then grease it [I used a thick grease that music medic here in the states sells. I considered copper grease but really wasn't keen on inhaling the stuff every time I played the horn. I used to play a wide body aquilasax metal piece--it was better off about 5mm away from the MT and fit the cork there as well.
I currently use a hard rubber Faxx branded babbit C mel piece and intonation is about as good as one might expect on a 90 year old horn whether a C or flat horn. I really only have to adjust one note Middle D for whatever reason.

I have considered the Morgan but cost for a horn that is more of a toy to me has been prohibitive so far...glad to hear you like it, however.
 
#36 ·
Mike T: much to address in your post up thread, but for a start..it wasn't just Conns, but all US made C melodies, that (appear to) have this relatively slender bore.

I don't know whether Conn originated the slender bore concept - they began making C melody saxophones in 1904 with very little publicity and no explanation about the instrument except that it could play vocal music without transposing. But I suspect they did originate the slender bore. They did something similar with the F mezzo-soprano later on - it's really an alto with a bore closer to a soprano's and a sound in between the two.
 
#48 ·
Hi. I just finished cleaning my micro tuner. Haven’t tested it yet on the sax with tuner. I noticed what I think might be 2 tiny screws missing. See pic. What do you think?
 
#51 ·
Thanks, BB. I’ve cleaned it and tried it out. Feels like it’s playing better. Definitely working now. But, what is the screw on the outside ring for?
 
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