Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

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    Default Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Sorry if I posted this in the wrong place - I don't see a sub-forum for D Bari Sax!

    "Please note that this instrument plays a half step flat. There is a problem with the tone holes and the entire horn is out. This bari can not be tuned to A440, but is fine for non-ensemble playing. . . This baritone saxophone would be well suited for all styles and levels of music."

    http://used.samashmusic.com/item.php?id=48115

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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    ... simply a PRC faulty experiment
    Don't play everything you know on every solo

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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Yea, but hey, a D Bari! Perfect for Motown, early rock, all sharp key music! But I'd be concerned that its not consistent. Might be worth a call to their winds department and ask...

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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Couldn't stand it so I called. They say its in good pitch with itself. They felt that it was close to a half step flat, but didn't have a precise measurement. Only a trial would tell if its manageable. Could be a cool instrument to have for certain gigs.

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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    It is flat all the range or bell notes only? I'm wondering if it may be corrected respectively from the neck or with crescents
    Don't play everything you know on every solo

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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    The guy said it was in tune and pitched with itself, which means to me, that the Ds are a 5th from the Gs, The octave Gs are correct, etc. If its a half step flat from top to bottom, then its consistent, and usable. Pitched in D instead of Eb, you only transpose a whole step, instead of 3 half steps, which is easier for some keys. Concert C is now D, Concert F is now G, Concert G is now A, Concert A is now B. However, Concert B is now C#, and Concert E is F# so there's a trade off. I'm skeptical though, as I doubt it was designed to pitch in D. It would be a real stroke of luck if they made a design error that affected the pitch across its range, and preserved the intonation too. There's only one way to tell.

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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Quote Originally Posted by musekatcher View Post
    The guy said it was in tune and pitched with itself, which means to me, that the Ds are a 5th from the Gs, The octave Gs are correct, etc. If its a half step flat from top to bottom, then its consistent, and usable. Pitched in D instead of Eb, you only transpose a whole step, instead of 3 half steps, which is easier for some keys. Concert C is now D, Concert F is now G, Concert G is now A, Concert A is now B. However, Concert B is now C#, and Concert E is F# so there's a trade off. I'm skeptical though, as I doubt it was designed to pitch in D. It would be a real stroke of luck if they made a design error that affected the pitch across its range, and preserved the intonation too. There's only one way to tell.
    I believe it would transpose a whole step DOWN, because a C on this Bari would play a concert D. The transposed notes you listed would be for a Bb sax. So, concert C is Bb, Concert F is Eb, Concert G is F, ETC...

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    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Some folks have high pitch horns (I just met some one) and THINK (but can’t) that they can play a saxophone in a different key.

    Quote Originally Posted by musekatcher View Post
    Couldn't stand it so I called. They say its in good pitch with itself. They felt that it was close to a half step flat, but didn't have a precise measurement. Only a trial would tell if its manageable. Could be a cool instrument to have for certain gigs.


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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Actually it would transpose more than that. It is a baritone saxophone. You would need to add an octave to that. A Concert D would be played as a C on this instrument. That means it would transpose down a fifteenth, if I did my math correctly.
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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    if the bari is high pitch many feel it is off only by half tone higher

    BUT IT IS NOT!

    Read , if you don’t know, about HP saxophones pitched in A=457Hz.

    Conversion and transpositions are IMPOSSIBLE (unless you are superman with your embouchure)

    https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...h-to-low-pitch
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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Berry sax View Post
    I believe it would transpose a whole step DOWN, because a C on this Bari would play a concert D. The transposed notes you listed would be for a Bb sax. So, concert C is Bb, Concert F is Eb, Concert G is F, ETC...
    Did I get this inverted? Lets see: An Eb instrument plays 3 half steps above concert. Fingered C is concert Eb, Fingered D is F, etc. The sax in question plays a half step flat. Subtracting a half step - Fingered C is now D, Fingered D is now E - I think I got it right. Actually, I know I got it right, because the store called me back, I spoke to a salesman who played it, and I checked pitches over the phone - not a pleasant experience with intonation very wrong. It was a recent Asian make, that either suffered some trauma, botched repair, wrong neck, operator error - definitely not a "D" instrument, not playable in its condition, and not worth traveling North to pinpoint. Thankfully since, a nice 60's French baritone found its way to my "flat"
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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Quote Originally Posted by musekatcher View Post
    Couldn't stand it so I called. They say its in good pitch with itself. They felt that it was close to a half step flat, but didn't have a precise measurement. Only a trial would tell if its manageable. Could be a cool instrument to have for certain gigs.
    how do they not have a precise measurement? surely a music store has an electric tuner on hand. that sounds suspicious to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by milandro View Post
    Some folks have high pitch horns (I just met some one) and THINK (but can’t) that they can play a saxophone in a different key.
    correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't a high pitch baritone play somewhere between concert Eb and concert E instruments in A440? so whatever this thing is, it's not a high pitch instrument if it's as described.

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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Quote Originally Posted by saxonabike View Post
    correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't a high pitch baritone play somewhere between concert Eb and concert E instruments in A440? so whatever this thing is, it's not a high pitch instrument if it's as described.
    Not exactly, because frequency of notes have a designated magnitude of increase (or decrease). So an octave is double the frequency of the previous note. A=440 -> octave A=880. Now if you have a HP horn with A=457 -> octave A=914.

    Now HP A=457 is near LP A#=466.16 -- diference of 9points
    But HP A=914 and LP A#=932.33 -- diference of 18points

    Basically, has you go up or down in the scale it goes further from the notes on the conventional A=440 scale. The only way to play this instruments is playing them with other same pitched instruments.
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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Quote Originally Posted by kreacher View Post
    Not exactly, because frequency of notes have a designated magnitude of increase (or decrease). So an octave is double the frequency of the previous note. A=440 -> octave A=880. Now if you have a HP horn with A=457 -> octave A=914.

    Now HP A=457 is near LP A#=466.16 -- diference of 9points
    But HP A=914 and LP A#=932.33 -- diference of 18points

    Basically, has you go up or down in the scale it goes further from the notes on the conventional A=440 scale. The only way to play this instruments is playing them with other same pitched instruments.
    yes, that is true. but what i was referring to was the fact that milandro seemed to be implying that the bari the OP mentioned was a high pitch instrument, which would play sharp relative to a low pitch baritone, whereas it is claimed that the horn in question plays half a step flat.

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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Ah yes, I noticed it too, but tought you were talking about something else. Well, in extremis it could be a HP C Baritone, puting it in D :P
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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Sorry I thought it was sharp not flat.

    therefore I concluded it must have been hp since I have dealt with someone with this problem lately, must have been thinking in that direction.
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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Quote Originally Posted by kreacher View Post
    Ah yes, I noticed it too, but tought you were talking about something else. Well, in extremis it could be a HP C Baritone, puting it in D :P
    No.

    Almost C# is what you mean.
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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    Quote Originally Posted by kreacher View Post
    Not exactly, because frequency of notes have a designated magnitude of increase (or decrease). So an octave is double the frequency of the previous note. A=440 -> octave A=880. Now if you have a HP horn with A=457 -> octave A=914.

    Now HP A=457 is near LP A#=466.16 -- diference of 9points
    But HP A=914 and LP A#=932.33 -- diference of 18points

    Basically, has you go up or down in the scale it goes further from the notes on the conventional A=440 scale. The only way to play this instruments is playing them with other same pitched instruments.
    I don't think this is correct. If a high pitched instrument is tunes to it's correct pitch (i.e. the mouthpiece is in the right place and it's octaves are in tune with each other), then the difference in pitch between this HP instrument and a low pitch (440) instrument is the same throughout the range (allowing for slight intonation quirks on a note by note basis common to all saxophones)

    It is correct as you say:

    Now HP A=457 is near LP A#=466.16
    But HP A=914 and LP A#=932.33

    and that there is a bigger numeric difference between 914 and the LP upper octave of 932, however this difference of 18 is Hertz, not points or percent. So the difference in pitch between 457/466.16 and 914/932.33 is the same even though the numbers are bigger.

    The issue of pitch differences over the range arises when you push the mouthpiece of a HP instrument further than it should be, e.g. to actually make the A = 466.16 in order to make it play (e.g.) as a baritone in E, because in that case the instrument is indeed out of tune with itself.

    In this thread , what we are talking about though is a baritone supposedly pitched in D by design, unless there is some other extra low pitch tuning standard we don't know about. It seems very odd.
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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    no saxophone is an unicum, if there was any such a thing as a saxophone designed to be tuned in D we would have met this before
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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    Default Re: Strange ad - ever heard of a bari sax in D?!

    I am 99.99% sure that whoever claimed the horn is pitched in D does not play saxophone and also does not understand transposition.

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