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Your thoughts on Paul Desmond?

18K views 83 replies 48 participants last post by  LiAm84 
#1 ·
I started playing saxophone partly because of Paul Desmond. His sound, and breezy style resonated deeply with me. But I switched to tenor and found other influences early on. And I recently started listen to Paul again after a long hiatus. And it really struck me how unique he really is. In contrast to most other jazz musicians I came across you hear very little of what we call "Jazz vocabulary". And I also found his laid back and "simple" style very refreshing. It feels like Brubeck can shed all he wants when Paul comes in he's gonna play it in his own pace and say whatever he intend to, no more no less.

I started to look online for thoughts on his harmonic and improvisational approach and came up with nothing. Countless texts have been written about his sound but very little about his actual playing. And since I play tenor I think it would certainly bring something to the table more than just "jazz vocabulary".

Is anyone here following my thoughts? Have anyone made any in depth analysis of the man? Or do you simply want to share that you cry like a baby every time you listen to Audrey? I'm all ears!
 
#2 ·
Count me as a huge Desmond fan. Here's what I've come to think about what makes Desmond "Desmond":

It's not any harmonic approach; it's an impeccable intonation, an impeccable articulation and rhythm.

Intonation: he never overblows, ever. He plays primarily in the middle/upper end of the horn, rarely going low.
Articulation: he is "sure" in his rhythmic placement, never rushing and hardly ever mushing up a phrase.

I think his relaxed approach allows him to hear everything very well, before he plays it.

His language is very arpeggiated, and replete with triads in all inversions.

Maybe most importantly, he is melody-focused, meaning he is eith developing a new melody or he is embellishing the existing melody, and it is quite clear which is happening when.

I think of him like a singer: it's the sound more than the underlying musicianship.

Just finished listening to him playing I SHOULD CARE< and marveling at the melody he created in place of the original.
 
#3 ·
Great insights. I thought of his use of arpeggios the other day. It was a very interesting thing since most of the guys I listen to use a more linear approach and I've come to connect linear approach/more melodic vertical/less melodic more like the Hawk.

At the same time I hold Desmond in high regard as one of the most melodic improvisers ever.

And when it comes to his time and pitch that's a life long lesson just there. To play what you know as musical as you can. I never listen to the most technical players but I still catch myself with playing over my abilities. It would be better to take what I know and try to deliver the most musical playing I can.
 
#5 ·
Brubeck material was a favorite of mine, and my favorite alto player was Paul Desmond. I love the softness, deceptive simplicity, intellectuality, control, humble command - and you are correct, he restrained usage of the common lines and riffs that became a vocabulary. His lines seemed so intuitive, yet when I tried to emulate them, they were technically difficult for me.
 
#6 ·
Melody and tone. I think a lot of us get so caught up in trying to play fast and trying to squeeze in what we think are hip harmonic ideas that we can forget: people want to hear melody, people want to hear a beautiful tone. Desmond is particularly amazing in that he comes up at a time when everybody was imitating Bird. To be an alto from that generation and to establish your own distinctive style is truly remarkable.
 
#7 ·
Like a dry martini. I have an album of him original lp, and he always was an upbeat and seemingly very friendly person. His sound was great. I live his life version of wave. Very melodic and flowing lines.
 
#9 ·
A couple quotes from Desmond that might shed some light;

"The qualities in music which I considered most important - and still do - were beauty, simplicity, originality, discrimination, and sincerity."

"Complexity can be a trap. You can have a ball developing a phrase, inverting it, playing it in different keys and times and all. But it's really more introspective than communicative. Like a crossword puzzle compared to a poem."

- Paul Desmond
 
#11 ·
That's the essence of what I wish to do. i have no interest in being a uberfast sredding kind of guy. I want to play simple and beatiful. And I think paul desmond is one of the guys to really get in to. When you listen to him everyrhing sound so very simple. But as someone else pointed out it's very deceptive. there's a reason we don't se desmond clones in tje same numbers as we see clones of other famous horn players.
 
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#14 ·
Desmond's impeccable intonation is, to some degree (I believe a BIG degree), connected to the facing on his mouthpiece. I've made myself a few 'Desmond-esque" pieces and have actually taken a number of alto pieces and set them up for that "desmond" crisp intonation.

I think looser facings of different proportions make that Desmond think very difficult, indeed. Not impossible, but far more difficult than it need be.
 
#15 ·
I think this is the best the saxophone has ever sounded.

How did he do this???



btw did you read the coffee table book on him? Its really good. It intruded a bit into his personal life with copies of personal letters he wrote, but overall a must have for any desmond fan.

I too am intersted in learning how Paul developed his improvisational technique.
 
#37 ·
It's so beautiful I think I've watched/ listened to that video at least a hundred times. The phrase starting at about 1:40 never fails to blow me away and some others are equally beautiful.

Read "Take Five: The Public and Private Lives of Paul Desmond" by Doug Ramsey for insight into the man and his music.
 
#16 ·
Yeah I pretty much started saxophone because of Desmond and Bird. The both had such unique styles and Desmond especially could just make the saxophone really sound like a lyrical, beautiful instrument and that just pulled me right in. Definitely one the best players IMO. So many people these days think the best players are the guys who can play the most amount of fast notes in a bar but I think it's the places you put the notes and Desmond just placed them so well that he made the instrument sound beautiful without playing a plethora of notes.
 
#18 ·
This is a great thread, thanks for starting it, Jaker! Paul Desmond has been a favorite of mine for many years. It always seemed to me that because he played so beautifully, he has been dismissed by many as being "corny", but his ability to spontaneously compose was astonishing. I really like the way Joe put it in his first thread above. The only thing that I can add to Joe's comments is that Desmond played with a great deal of proportion, by which I mean he played exactly what was right for the situation at hand, not more and not less. Also, his sense of time was fantastic. Finally, adamk's comment that he must have played/listened to a lot of Bach really resonates with me. I have never heard anyone else say that, but for me, Desmond's music has the same logic as Bach's. This thread will have me listening to some Desmond today....thank you all for that!

Joe - I'd love to hear you expand on your comments about the connection between the facing of Desmond's mouthpiece and his great intonation. What blanks have you found work well for this setup (this thread also has me deciding to pull out the Alma later today:mrgreen:)? I'm also wondering how a refaced (opened a bit) Caravan medium chamber would work for this sort of setup? I realize all of this equipment stuff is off topic for this thread, but.....
 
#21 ·
Joe - I'd love to hear you expand on your comments about the connection between the facing of Desmond's mouthpiece and his great intonation. .
One thing I don't hear in Desmond's playing is very much pitch-bend. There are facings (never operating alone, of course) that allow or promote, whether intended or not, a moving pitch-center. Of course, better players control that but many players do not, it seems to me.

I've had a few Desmond MC Gregory pieces (all gone now) and one constant quality was a compact (shorter) facing length. Just a short facing length means little, of course, but it does quiet down any pitch-bending tendencies. In effect, it creates that "dry martini" environment, I believe.

Different chamber size and shape have their own impact, of course. The Caravan, I suspect, would be a bit darker than Desmond, but I haven't worked on one in that way. It's just my feeling because of the quite large chamber that Ron prefers.

I have done the "Desmond" thing to a lot of pieces with varying success. Smaller chamber pieces seem to get too brittle and lack depth when Desmond-ized. Soloist style, deeper chamber, play beautifully but not with the Desmond thing. They have their own thing.

But moderately large chamber pieces seem to get the best results: Vandoren among them. I have a lot of vintage alto pieces that take the shorter facings quite well and give that Desmond crispness and clarity, along with texture and depth, quite nicely.
 
#19 ·
Desmond was probably my very first influence to play saxes.
So melodic,his tone is very unique and beautifull.
He is a legend.
My best regards
Mario
 
#20 ·
My thoughts on Paul Desmond...

Perhaps the greatest 'cool school' alto player ever. You never heard his mastery of technique, you never heard scales and arpeggios, you just heard melody with an occasional quote of another song that just seemed to fit right in.

And a very nice guy. When I was a kid, we played a Jerry Lewis Telethon right before the Dave Brubeck Quartet. We were very young and pretty bad back then. Desmond was very kind and encouraging to me.

Insights and incites by Notes
 
#29 ·
That is Hayden Chisholm plays a V5 a35, not Paul Desmond. Also, if I recall correctly according to his website, Chisholm plays Vandoren V16s
 
#28 ·
Some years back Paul Cohen wrote a terrific article called "Annals in the evolution of Style - The improvisations of Paul Desmond" in which he analyzed several of Desmond's solos on the iconic "Take Five". He noted that on the original recording

"Desmond's improvisation, now considered a classic, reflects the experimental nature of the music and the recent involvement with these new materials....Carefully adhering to the bar line and retaining the basic C minor tonality"
Cohen goes on to say that by the time the DBQ recorded the song at Carnegie Hall four years later, they had played the tune hundreds of time and were comfortable with 5/4 and that:

Desmond's improvisation illustrates how natural the time signature became. On a technical level, phrasing now spans up to four measures and is no longer limited or constrained to the bar line. The tempo is greatly accelerated, the range extended well into the altissimo register, and the solo adopts a bi-tonal basis of G opposing the quartet accompaniment of C minor. This gives the solo a somewhat exotic flavor or sound....
Listen to both and you'll see what Cohen is talking about. Then listen to the version on "The Paul Desmond Quartet Live" recorded in 1975 with the Canadian quartet which featured Ed Bickert, which is even more exotic sounding. Desmond uses scales which sound like some of the scales I've played out of Yusef Lateef's "Repository" and is rhythmically even more adventurous.
 
#40 ·
Some years back Paul Cohen wrote a terrific article called "Annals in the evolution of Style - The improvisations of Paul Desmond" in which he analyzed several of Desmond's solos on the iconic "Take Five". He noted that on the original recording

Thank you for reading and remembering my article! I did another article soon after, comparing Desmond's solos on Blue Rondo a la Turk from the same sessions; Time Out album and the Carnegie Hall concert/album. Both solos are just astonishing. A revelation to see the extensive, expansive development, both in thematic invention, range extension and driving intensity in the second solo. They were also a challenge to transcribe, mostly due to Desmond's amazing sense of time that was always hinting at the beat, but rarely with it, either before or behind in a deliberate and exquisite manner. These solos always sound fresh and inspired even after hundreds of listenings.

Paul Cohen
 
#32 ·
"Complexity can be a trap. You can have a ball developing a phrase, inverting it, playing it in different keys and times and all. But it's really more introspective than communicative. Like a crossword puzzle compared to a poem."

That's an awesome quote! As for an analysis of his style, you might find that his vocabulary runs more in line with the bebop tradition than his stylings let on. I just got turned on to an album with him and Mulligan called Two Of A Mind, where there is no chordal instrument. Just drums, bass, and two saxes. Man! It's so cool! Both of those guys are outlining the changes so clearly, and developing motifs all along. The interplay between those two is as good as it gets. Very Bach, very Bird, very Desmond. It's on spotify, and I strongly recommend checking it out!
 
#42 ·
I learned about vibrato--when and how to use it, and when NOT to use it--by listening to him.

He always sounds like he's taking a stroll down a country lane or through the woods on a bright, sunny day.

The ultimate in taste.

A couple of people mentioned the "dry martini" style. The story is told that a music critic asked Desmond if he was really trying to sound like a dry martini. Desmond replied that he was really trying to sound like two dry martinis.
 
#45 ·
I learned about vibrato--when and how to use it, and when NOT to use it--by listening to him.
........
The ultimate in taste.
........
Yes, this is him.
 
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