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C-melody mouthpiece question

13K views 31 replies 17 participants last post by  dvdberg 
#1 ·
Apologies, I'm sure this has been asked and answered many times before but hopefully someone will be kind enough to either respond to my questions or point me towards the appropriate threads!

I've been playing my 1924 Conn C-mel with a Selmer S80 alto mpc for a fair while, it's far better than the mpc that came with the sax which was very woolly sounding. However, to keep the sax in tune I either have to have the mpc pushed well on and the micro-tuner turned well out which causes problems with the lower notes not playing properly or the mpc only just on the cork which means it's not entirely secure. Talking to my tech about it recently, she suggested I could try getting a proper C-mel mpc. I have in the past tried tenor pieces and don't much like them. So, I've been looking, reading up as much as I can and found there are a few options for C-mel mpcs now.

http://www.runyonproducts.com/site/c-melody-sax-mouthpiece/

or

http://www.sax.co.uk/mouthpieces-ligs-c-melody-mouthpieces.irc

or even the Windcraft version.

I don't have a massive budget so not even considering a Morgan which I've read are meant to be the best.

So, if I were considering the 2 I've linked to above, what would be the pros and cons of them both? Sadly I can't persuade my local woodwind shop to get in any for me to try before I buy so I haven't any way of trying first which I'd do if I could!

Also, I don't seem to be able to find any information about what size reeds these pieces use - or ligs as certainly the Jody Jazz one doesn't appear to be supplied with a lig/cap, though I've just noticed the Runyon is. Do they use alto or tenor or c-mel specific reeds? Or something else?
 
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#2 ·
I cannot help you directly, since I have settled upon a sawed-off Hudson .105 from saxscape (bergish bullet chamber and good baffle) to solve my C mel mouthpiece problems.

I do like the cheap plastic C mel mpc I got from ebey.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Windcraft-C...083763?hash=item567cafcdf3:g:PhsAAOSwo6lWFju1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-Melody-Sa...id=100010&rk=3&rkt=7&mehot=pp&sd=272077644226
http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-Melody-Sa...6689656&pid=100010&rk=4&rkt=7&sd=272077644226
These looks like it could be it; same price --- under $40 US.

Here are some other threads, tho ...

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?199467-Your-Best-mouthpiece-C-Melody

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/archive/index.php/t-115624.html

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...-using-a-C-melody-mp-w-C-mel-sax-not-tenor-mp

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?115173-Buescher-c-melody-mouthpiece

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?5065-Mouthpiece-advice-needed-for-C-melody-horn

"If you find that when using a tenor mp on a Cmel that the palm keys are sharp and/or the low bell notes are flat, then the chamber is too large. You can try a test putting some temporary putty in the chamber and pulling out some to retune the mid range to see if that helps."
 
#3 ·
The wretched Micro-tuner prevents tenor pieces being pushed on far enough....click has a good approach in sawing them off to suit.
Personally I would bin the Micro-tuner & start again with a horn not so encumbered & use a tenor mouthpiece.
Alternatively you could try a Bb tenor. :bluewink:
 
#4 ·
Ha! I actually bought a Bb tenor earlier this year and sold it on a few months later because it was simply too heavy for me :(. Shame as I enjoyed the sound but, I'm also very attached to my Conn which I got as a doer-upper in 2007/8, had it overhauled twice (it was done enough to make it playable the first time to fit my budget, with the 2nd to do the extra bits that were not done the first time) and planning to get a few more tweaks done in 2016 because in fact I play my C-mel a LOT, thoroughly enjoy it and have no plans to change/replace it any time soon!! I know the micro-tuner presents it's own issues but overall I'm happy with my Conn!!

I have an alto available to me (my daughters, though she's recently taught herself to play clarinet so isn't playing the alto much now) which I don't like much and really hate the modern keywork!
I've also got a C-sop which I had done up this year - with no regrets at all as that has a lovely sweet sound, much nicer than the brash sound of my curvy Bb sop which I like for some thing but not so much!!

Having read some of the threads Click linked to I'm now wondering about having my original mpc refaced etc as that might be an option worth exploring before buying an untried C-mel mpc!!
 
#6 ·
Have you explored the modern C-Mel mouthpieces? I have a couple (Beechler and Streeter) but prefer a Kessler tenor mouthpiece on my Buescher C-Mel. I understand Morgan makes one, too. If I played C-Mel (more) I'd probably look into the Morgan.

Old-time C-Mel/clarinetist Rosy McHargue used a Steel-lay on his Buescher C-Mel and sounded fine with that mouthpiece. I suppose it is all very personal, though. DAVE
 
#8 ·
I've tried several alto, tenor, and two C-melody mouthpieces with both my c-mel saxes. I prefer the sound of a tenor mouthpiece. My Conn c-mel with the micro tuner is an issue for tenor mouthpieces though, so If I were going to play it regularly, I'd find a [inexpensive] tenor mouthpiece I liked and saw it off to shorten it, so it would fit.
 
#12 ·
"Aquilasax.com has cease d operating since June 2015 (formerly China since 2007)
Often sold out, as our saxes are more popular with customers than with the factory that makes them.
We have been unable to solve this problem and have not been able to make the business profitable as a result. I will keep this website open as an info site as long as funds allow.
We regret any inconvenience." http://www.aquilasax.com/

Someone might have a used one for sale from time to time.
 
#10 ·
My 2 cents worth...
I have a Runyon and both the Aquilasax slim and wider profile C mel pieces.
My preference on my Conn is for a Bill Street 6, based on the Babbitt blank.
Great response and intonation with tenor reeds.
The Babbitt mouthpiece available from Tampa Dave on his site is a good place to start at a very reasonable price.
 
#11 ·
I tried dozens of mouthpieces for Conn, Martin and Buescher C mels that I have had and finally just bit the bullet and got a Morgan......fantastic. Before that I found that alto mouthpieces were a bit better on these beasts. My regular Selmer S-80 D was the best fit but with the Morgan, everything speaks and is in tune. Try the lower priced ones mentioned and maybe a Runyon or similar will work. I really don't think alto or tenor is the answer. I have read that the metal Selmer tenors are good on these but they cost more than some dedicated C mouthpieces.
 
#15 ·
I like tenor mouthpieces on my Buescher C (I am using a Berg Larsen Metal 90/0 SMS now with great results), but found that Conns tend to work better with alto pieces.
I have a red plastic Runyon that works great, as well as a cheap Chinese metal alto piece that I bought long ago based on good reviews here.
The Morgan C didn't impress me much. Intonation was OK, but not better than the alto pieces that work with the horn, and I didn't like the sound much.
 
#17 ·
Until now I've often found alto-pieces better on my Conn, have been using a Selmer S80 which isn't too bad, however, comparing side-by-side with the Morgan today, the Morgan was far and away easier to blow and didn't sound too bad either,- and I'm sure it wasn't just because it's a slightly softer reed I felt the sound was more full-bodied from the Morgan the the alto, but I've only played it a little so will get a better idea once I've got some better reeds for it.
Definitely more like blowing a tenor than an alto (which has to be my least favourite of all saxes I think!)
 
#19 ·
Aquila is OOB. Occasionally, I see where their owner will sell some pieces on ebay but I have not seen any MPCs in a long while. I do have a silver wide body C piece I may sell if you are interested. I used it a handful of times. It does play in tune and will give you pretty decent projection but I prefer a FAXX branded C-Mel HR mpc I purchased off of fleabay a few years ago for I think about USD 50.00. I don't think you can go wrong with the Meyer piece but I don't wish to spend more on a mpc than the horn is probably worth :)
 
#21 ·
I've really been getting good response and tuning from a white lucite Buescher tenor piece from the 1950s.
Gas Fluid Electric blue Metal Fashion accessory

There are 2 types, one with a cylindrical, shorter shank (pic above) and another with a funnel shaped, longer shank. I use this shorter type, because I need to push in just about to the end of the cork on a C horn. This is a horseshoe chamber design with some modest brightness, sort of a poor man's Brilhart, and adds good projection to the tone.

Another piece I have had good results with, altho somewhat less so on the lower end of the horn, is a 1950s(?) French Connétable Swing.
Cylinder Battery Auto part Electric blue Titanium

This is a streamline tenor piece, taking an alto ligature, and its chamber is actually oval - wider than it is high. They're dark brown, probably a bakelite mixture, with a metal ring. Again, this is a short shank version of a design later adapted with a longer shank.

I play a 1930 Buescher True-Tone and a 1936 Conn 8M.
 
#23 ·
I've really been getting good response and tuning from a white lucite Buescher tenor piece from the 1950s.
View attachment 83101
There are 2 types, one with a cylindrical, shorter shank (pic above) and another with a funnel shaped, longer shank. I use this shorter type, because I need to push in just about to the end of the cork on a C horn. This is a horseshoe chamber design with some modest brightness, sort of a poor man's Brilhart, and adds good projection to the tone.

Another piece I have had good results with, altho somewhat less so on the lower end of the horn, is a 1950s(?) French Connétable Swing.
View attachment 83103
This is a streamline tenor piece, taking an alto ligature, and its chamber is actually oval - wider than it is high. They're dark brown, probably a bakelite mixture, with a metal ring. Again, this is a short shank version of a design later adapted with a longer shank.

I play a 1930 Buescher True-Tone and a 1936 Conn 8M.
Have you correlated (casually of course) the basic contributors of these mouthpieces, and why they work well with your True Tone? I get passable intonation on mine with a Berg offset, but its not optimal - I'm still lipping and glissing to compensate for pitch challenges. Like, have you checked the mp pitch wo the neck? And then with the neck? Maybe measure the chamber volume?
 
#24 ·
jhammons01 I can measure tips with my feeler gauge. I think the Buescher (marked 4) is .088" but let me double check. The Connétable feels like it's in the .070s. Takes 1/2 a strength harder reed.

musekatcher I could measure volume but need a graduated cylinder.

Haven't needed to to much compensating while playing, over and above normal for these flexibly pitched vintage axes.

Never done the neck/no neck thing. Should it play the same pitch with or without?
 
#25 ·
jhammons01 I can measure tips with my feeler gauge. I think the Buescher (marked 4) is .088" but let me double check. The Connétable feels like it's in the .070s. Takes 1/2 a strength harder reed.
See? we were talking Reeds and MPCs in the other thread from this month and .068 found on Ebay was scoffed at as being closed up....You are getting great tones from MPCs that are comparable .0020 sounds like a lot, but it really isn't.

Thanks for the response
 
#28 ·
Hello
Quick question about mouthpieces: I've recently got a Conn- C-melody (love it!) but mouthpiece intonation issues abound. Saw a Buescher c-melody mouthpiece for sale. I know Buescher C-melodies sound more like real tenors and conn C-melodies sound more like an "old" alto. Anyone has an experience with this combo?

Thanks a bunch!
 
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