Amen, TraneSpotter.....we are indeed lucky to have people like Randy and Drew and Phil and many others who are driven to create better tools. We're talking about tools for creative expression here -- it can't be "one size fits all." And we're doubly lucky that they are such open-minded and patient people! Myself and many others here have learned a ton from them.
Onward!
There's such a thing as a foolish consistency. I'd rather pick through mouthpieces that are all just slightly different (as we are), than to have 1,000 identically uninteresting mouthpieces to choose from. Since most everyone is chasing various vintage Otto Link design(s) on tenor, it doesn't strike me as crazy to use the same manufacturing process. Full disclosure: I have several Links that served TM as references for their design, Randy is a friend, and I receive no compensation from TM. FOR ME, they play great. Whether that is true for any individual is up to them, and is a question that cannot be answered from behind a keyboard.
I think it is OK to market production and hand finishing variation as "character". Some players even perceive variation in CNC made mouthpieces. Sometimes it is actually there.
I told myself a long time ago I would never rant like this on the forum... but here we go...
I just don't understand the beef with the description... If the piece plays well and sounds good, who cares if it's a molded piece? Don't judge anyone's product until you have actually played it, let alone heard anyone play on one. From my perspective, thin rails/thick rails don't matter as long as they are symmetrical to a point and allow the reed to vibrate in the way it was intended to. If the piece has a good facing and plays, play it and enjoy it. It's not about it being a beauty contest... Remember... playing is about the music, not if my mouthpiece is "prettier" or "more expensive to make than yours." Most of these perceptions that have been created about what mouthpieces should look like and be is all marketing. Yeah, pieces out there look gorgeous, but do they really play that well? Is it just something else to suck us in to a new marketing scheme? If you want to play an assembly line mouthpiece and sound like everyone else... go ahead and have that generic sound... The whole point of them selling these pieces is to allow players to achieve a more individualized sound so they can sound like them and play what they enjoy playing. This allows them to get the equipment out of the way and play music! What a concept! You can't compare mouthpiece work to jewelry... It's simply nonsensical and a terrible comparison...
I wholeheartedly trust TM's products. Randy would never allow anything to be released that is of low standard/bad quality. He simply wouldn't. These are the best people on the market to deal with and they stand behind the items they sell. Probably why they are arguably the best woodwind/sax shop in the industry... They didn't earn their great reputation by selling "low quality products."
And if you are columnist/contributor on this forum, do you think it is wise or acceptable to blatantly make claims like this and bash people? This is why the forum has gone downhill year after year. No one is concerned with supporting each other. They just come here to tear other people down to make themselves feel better... Get over yourself and take it somewhere else... The majority of us are honestly sick of hearing about it and reading it.
The two articles posted so far in this thread were both great reads. Thanks to Saxaholic and Mark!
Jimmy Jensen will be doing the final touch up work on our mouthpieces. Jimmy will be joining the crew here at Tenor Madness in June, and we've also got him to oversee the quality control in the meantime. He was just up here for a few days last week working with me and Randy. He can also do smaller or larger tips as a special order so that we can satisfy those wanting a 6*- or an 8*+. Anyone with specific questions can contact him at jimmyjensen@tenormadness.com.
People got really sick of the old advertising comparison "Tastes Great!" "Less Filling!" Not so with the silly claim "Bar Ebonite!" "Molded Ebonite!", a silly advertising claim that Mr. Otto Link started years ago. Silly, in part, because bar or rod ebonite is molded ebonite. It just takes more milling of the molded rod to get the right shape. The difference is like whether a statue was carved from a rough stone or from a milled block of marble. It only makes a difference if you think that you know which process was used. Only then can you allege with authority that "This one is superior because of blah, blah, blah."
It's hard to find an expert opinion where the expert doesn't have a dog in the fight (meaning that the expert is presently engaged in the marketing of mouthpieces made from one or the other of the processes). Otto Link no longer has a dog in the fight. I think most would agree that he made mouthpieces from both ebonite molded in the shape of a rod and some from ebonite molded in the shape of a mouthpiece (provided by JJ Babbitt starting in the 1940's). Here's what we can learn from him as to which method is best.
It's hard to find an expert opinion where the expert doesn't have a dog in the fight (meaning that the expert is presently engaged in the marketing of mouthpieces made from one or the other of the processes). Otto Link no longer has a dog in the fight. I think most would agree that he made mouthpieces from both ebonite molded in the shape of a rod and some from ebonite molded in the shape of a mouthpiece (provided by JJ Babbitt starting in the 1940's). Here's what we can learn from him as to which method is best.
"Okay, but even if the claim of Eburnated Bar is clearly BS, we now know that making a mouthpiece from bar stock or rod rubber is best because that's what Mr. Link chose. The only problem is that within a couple of years Link changed and used molded blanks. But somehow the blanks that he purchased were still "eburnated" according to the Link advertising. Maybe the secret eburnation process is the key to making superior mouthpieces. Here's some Link advertising copy from 1940.
A new process of high compression actually hardens the rubber from which "OTTO LINK" MOUTHPIECES are fabricated to a degree heretofore thought impossible -- imparting a gleaming crystal quality in appearance as well as substance."
******************************************** end of quoted material ********************************
What that indicates to me, is that machining bar stock was the more mature process path at the time. This was in the early days of molding hard rubber to near-net shape with high precision (getting adequate fill and homogeneous properties). Once it was reliable and predictive, they went with the molding process.
Seems to be a recurring pattern on this forum unfortunately. There's a very vocal minority of bitter users with nothing better to do with their time than jumping to conclusions, presenting opinions as expertise, and spewing inconsiderate diatribes that no one wants to hear.
I have one of those pieces. Mine plays great, it's well balanced, has quite a strong core and a nice Otto Link ring around it. The articulation and response is clear and easy. Color is in the middle of dark vs. bright, very Early Babitt like... Since the profile is a bit on the slim side for me i gave it to a friend of mine for a while. He likes it even more than me.
So, no need to tear down this new mpc. In my opinion they are very great and versatile mouthpieces.
Cheers
Michael
I tried to post some sounds of this mpc.
one is the first pass.
the second is with an aebersold.
both are uncut. recorded on a Zoom H4n recorder...straight-up.....
I just signed up to soundcloud so let me know if this works...
(oh, and critics... take it easy on me. just trying to post some first impression of this mpc.
to me, it plays great....sounds great... I think I'll keep it!
Sounds fabulous! Maybe our resident naysayer will post an example of his playing on a "pure bar stock" mouthpiece that will make a case for it's superiority over the TM EBII, or any other mouthpiece using a core mold process. Comparing the two recordings should make a clear case, no? Of course it won't -- there are far too many variables in play.
I've played outstanding mouthpieces made by each method, and terrible ones. And, I'm not alone in having played mouthpieces, great and terrible, made from a wide variety of materials. What is common to good mouthpieces? Good design, well executed. What constitutes "good" depends on the player, their tonal goals, and their control of their body and their instrument. Central to making any assertion about one mouthpiece in relation to another is having played it. Until that happens, all speculation is moot -- just red herrings and straw-man arguments.
For what it's worth, I think we are extremely fortunate to have so many great options, reasonably priced: Tenor Madness, 10mFan, Saxquest, PhilTone, Morgan, MouthpieceCafe, to name just a few. All are passionate about their work, and tireless in their efforts to bring excellent products to market. Their work should be applauded, not derided, and they surely don't need to be pitted against one another. Pick your favorite, and play!
My main mouthpiece is one that I got to cherry-pick from the first batch about 5 years ago. The newer ones feel like better mouthpieces all around - more even, more focused, better at high volumes. And they still have all of the qualities that we really liked about the original mouthpieces - the articulation, the workload, the definition between notes. I'm going to make the switch permanently when I find the "one."
We've gotten these in the hands of a lot of people who either play or still have some of the great examples of the original mouthpieces, and their feedback has been great! Of course, we'd welcome people to share their experience first-hand. I know drakesaxprof was just in a couple days ago comparing his originals to some of the newer ones.
Trying to get caught up on mouthpiece reviews, spent yesterday finishing this review of the new Tenor Madness EBII tenor mouthpiece. Everyone at TM did a great job with this new production model in my opinion. You can read more details and hear a clip on the review. Steve http://www.neffmusic.com/blog/2016/01/tenor-madness-new-ebii-tenor-mouthpiece-review/
Just a reminder for anyone near Louisville or attending the Jazz Educator's conference: we will be at JEN with several of these mouthpieces (and necks, and horns!). Feel free to stop by and check them out!
I put up two more clips with a lower gain. The Clip #3 sounds like there are more highs and brightness in the sound just from moving the mic to the middle of the room instead of on a desk near the wall. I think all 3 clips show a good range of what this mouthpiece is capable of though. Hope this helps, Steve
Received my TM-EBII about 2 weeks ago in 8 tip opening.
What a great piece!
After a quick discussion with Drew, he sent me one in the 8 tip opening which was pretty much on the "bright" side of things in order to match best with my BA horn.
I was always very much interested in the kind of "in the pocket" sound that I was hearing form TM-EB players like Drew or people at KB sax playing BA horns ... check this one for instance:
All I can say is that the TM-EBII gives me exactly this type of core, "wetness" and compact sound with a very nice sizzle in the high register. Another thing I find remarkable on this mouthpiece is the precision of articulation and comfort of playing ... probably the best I have ever seen. The TM-EBII can handle any kind of playing situation IMO. I can get pretty loud on it.
At 295 US$ it is IMO the best deal today as it compares without any problem to my Navarro's pieces. Compared to my BopBoy : the BopBoy is a little bit louder and rounder sounding while the TM-EBII has more sizzle. I am currently switching between both as I really enjoy both of them. Well done TM, the best "link-type" piece I have tried so far.
I tried one at the JEN. You even had a .097 tip for those us that prefer a little closer tip. Very nice!
When you consider a new Link is $219, $295 for a hand finished mouthpiece that actually plays is a good deal.
I was impressed by the tenor you're selling also. It is as close to the Mark layout and feel of anything I've seen. You got the palm keys and right hand pinkie on the money. Of course it was the noisy room with everybody in there blowing their brains out, but it sounded very close to the MarkVI you guys had there.
Drew - I was thinking about this one-http://tenormadness.com/product_detail.php?product_id=718 any advice? How long does the trial last?
Steve - what is your main mouthpiece these days?
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Sax on the Web Forum
3.3M posts
75.4K members
Since 2003
A forum community dedicated to saxophone players and enthusiasts originally founded by Harri Rautiainen. Come join the discussion about collections, care, displays, models, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!