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Chinese Bass Saxophone Update?

8K views 25 replies 14 participants last post by  RobBari 
#1 ·
Will those of you with Chinese basses of either design, Selmer or Buescher, update us on your ownership experience? Over time how has the horn served you? Major repairs? Minor Repairs? Quality complaints? Any peculiarities of your horn? Funny notes? Anything positive to say? Can you include what style bass you have.
 
#2 ·
Mine's still working fine - it's an SA80II copy.

Very early on I replaced a lot of key corks for felt to quieten the action as well as refitted the water key screw for better access as it went in the wrong way round and tightened up the action of the 8ve mechanism. So far, so good as it's still playing well and reliable. I lent it to another player recently at very short notice as his bass packed up before a concert, but he was impressed by my bass for its ease of playing and had the full range of any modern sax compared to his old Mahillon bass.

While these basses aren't perfect by a long way, they are still perfectly decent ones that do the job they're meant to do. With some extra fettling they can be made to work better than when they left the factory. I can't fault the padding as all the pads are seating well, but better choices of silencing materials, better fit and finish and other things will improve them. but that will only increase the price. Best thing is to have one tweaked by your tech to improve what you've got. One thing you won't be able to resolve is the torsion in the long key rods which makes for a very spongy feel, so you'll have to work with that.

Middle D is the note you have to be aware of, but that can be dealt with choice of mouhpieces, reeds and embouchure control. An extra 8ve vent and triple vent 8ve mechanism will improve this as it will on most basses, but that's major surgery and more expense.
 
#4 ·
I'm about to buy one after being an old Conn bass man for many years. I loved the way this particular one I bought spoke in all registers. It's very flexible and I have no issues currently with the middle D or C which was always a common problem on the Conn. There is definitely a few felts and competing issues that need to be sorted but this is nothing major and common to many new instruments including the big name brands...
I'll keep you posted as I get into it more... Now to,find where I put my good bass sax Mpcs.
 
#6 ·
Mine's essentially a JinBao JBBS120L which is an SA80II copy but stencilled 'gear4music' (as that's where I bought it from) - they're now stencilled 'Rosedale' and are around the £3000 mark: http://www.gear4music.com/Woodwind-Brass-Strings/Rosedale-Bass-Saxophone-Gold/MQ9

Also available to order through Wessex Tubas (in both the UK and USA):
http://www.wessex-tubas.co.uk/bass-saxophone/

... and sax.co.uk: http://www.sax.co.uk/sakkusu-bb-bass-saxophone.ir

The most expensive I've seen them is from International Woodwind - the IW661 bass is the same as the others above:
http://www.internationalwoodwind.com/saxophones-bass-saxophone.htm
 
#7 ·
I'm enjoying the bass I just got, very flexible and a big sound. It needs a few tweaks to,get it really firing to,it's fullest. It is a very usable and enjoyable beast. No real keywork dramas, just a few set up issues. These are definitely worth checking out.
The biggest thing is to get a good mouthpiece and then they really start to become a very usable concern.
 
#8 ·
Boot, have you ever tried one of Paul Coats' modified bari Runyon pieces for bass? I have one that worked well...along with several old pickle barrel monsters.
 
#9 ·
One thing to be wary of if I haven't already mentioned is the point screws where the threads on some have been nicked with a wire cutter to make them lock into the pillar threads. While this will initially work when fitting the screw, removing it will destroy the internal threads in the pillars. Selmer USA also did this on their oboe adjusting screws as a shortcut to fitting the screws so they're gripping the internal threads.

The only remedy for stripped pillar threads is to get a new point screw to start with, then drill out the pillar thread and soft solder a brass bush in there with an internal thread the same as the point screw. Then fit the key properly by either bushing or countersinking the end of the key rod so the point screw fits correctly or countersinking the point screw into the pillar until the desired fit is achieved. Or if you want to, cut a slot in the screw thread (perpendicular-ish to the thread) and fit a piece of nylon or Teflon in there to act as a lock, or drill through the screw thread and insert a piece of nylon filament in to act as a lock. The adjusting screws on these bases (on mine anyway) have the screw threads already drilled through so a piece of nylon filament can be fitted in there, but they were all left empty. So find a suitable piece of the correct diameter nylon filament, fit it in the screw thread and chop it flush with the threads.
 
#10 ·
Randall,
I have been using the Bass mouthpiece I had tweaked years ago. It's a tweaked RPC or Ron Ceohlo piece with a large chamber, but a narrow beak on it so it's comfortable to play yet still gives plenty of thump when pushed and is good with intonation. I haven't tried a modified Runyon in many years but perhaps I should look into this again too.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I have one of the Chinese Selmer copies (Wessex stencil) and it's working great.

I bought one of the Paul Coats Runyon bass pieces and found it disappointing on this horn. Harsh, thin sound- made the sax sound like a baritone.

Maybe they work better on the old american basses? I have tried 3 or 4 bari pieces on this horn and none of them work nice or sound good (otto link metal and rubber, vandoren v16, yamaha 4c).

The stock mouthpiece was terrible as well- it had a big wedge baffle in it that made it sound like a bandsaw.

I get a much better sound out of my old pickle-barrel mouthpiece.

Here is the sax in action:

http://thedancinganddrinkingsociety.bandcamp.com/album/remember-the-days
 
#12 ·
Chris, what MP are you using?

Chris, you discuss a third vent as if you know something about it. I am a mechanical engineer so I could develop the mechanism, but where should such a vent go, do you know?

Bootman, did you get the "vintage copy" style, or the Selmer copy style?
 
#19 ·
I always thought 'pickle barrel' referred to the size of the actual mouthpiece. My one is so fat I use shoelaces as ligatures.

They normally have very small lays by modern standards and big chambers. It took me a while to learn how to play it.
Well the gigantic chamber tends to lend itself towards that size. I didn't know they were large enough to need to use shoelaces, however.
 
#21 ·
Well the gigantic chamber tends to lend itself towards that size. I didn't know they were large enough to need to use shoelaces, however.
Some of them are huge! My favorite are the old Conn pieces from the 1920s! Have to take in a lot of mouthpiece, but the sound is second to none :)
 
#22 ·
I bought my Jinbao bass saxophone in 2010 and I use it as a tuba substitute in two community bands. There were some problems at first. (1) inferior glue allowed corks to come loose. (2) the adjustment screw for the low Bb key kept working loose until I had it permanently sealed. The note "D" (fourth line) sounded stuffy but I found an alternate fingering that produced a nicer tone. We are all accustomed to using the side "D" key and octave key for sounding high "D". On my bass sax I regularly use the side "D" key without the octave key to produce a nicer sounding "D" (4th line).

One problem persists and that is because I have short pinky fingers and I find it difficult to reach down to the low Bb key without touching the low C# key and creating a leak. Because of this I cannot confidently play the low Bb note. I got a technician to bend the low Bb, B, C#, G# cluster upward a little but although it is better than it used to be, it is still not good enough for the low Bb note. I would be interested to know whether anyone else with short pinky fingers has arranged for the replacement of the entire cluster to position it higher up without comfortable reach or whether they have added an alternate low Bb key operated by the left thumb.

If the mainland China bass sax manufacturers had not come on the scene with lower priced instruments I never would have purchased a bass saxophone. I can't afford a Cadillac either.
 
#24 ·
I bought a Jinbao Selmer stencil from mainland China in 2010 and I am happy with my purchase. Some initial problems were corrected by a technician in 2010 and it has given good service since then. (1) Inferior glue allowed corks to come loose. (2) The adjustment screw for low Bb kept working loose until the technician soldered it. (3) I got the technician to put the low Bb/B/C# cluster easier to reach with my short little finger. I found that the side D key without the octave key produced a nicer sounding fourth line "D" note than the conventional six-finger plus octave key "D" note. I purchased a new mouthpiece but reverted to using the mouthpiece that came with the instrument because I could not distinguish any difference. After six years of use one of the two zipper tags broke on the sax case but a zipper repair man easily replaced the broken piece. The rubber tire split on one of the four rollers on the sax case after seven years usage and kept jamming so I cut that broken tire off. I like the large music pocket on the side of the sax case. The bass sax came with an adjustable metal peg like those used on bass clarinets but I prefer to use a shoulder harness so that I have complete head movement. I use a SaxRax stand for resting the bass sax but it is not suitable for playing the sax on the stand. Initially I used to pick the bass sax up with my right thumb under the thumb rest just like I always do with my baritone sax but within a few months the plastic thumb rest snapped in half and had to be replaced. On the bass sax I had to change my hand positions a little to avoid inadvertently touching side keys and causing leaks and for reaching the low Bb and b natural keys. My sax is keyed up to high F# but I don't go up there because I dislike the tone on the extreme high notes. To sum up, I would never have paid the price of a Selmer, Keilwerth or Eppelstein bass sax and I would never buy a Ferrari car. Now that I mention cars, my bass sax case fits comfortably across the back seat of my Mazda 3 car but it will not fit in the trunk (boot).

What can the buyer of a bass sax use it for? You will probably need to do a lot of transposing and printing. A minority of big-band 5th sax parts are more suited to a bass sax than a baritone sax. Most concert band arrangements have no bass sax parts so you must transpose tuba parts. British brass band arrangements do have an important treble clef part for Bb bass (tuba) that suits a bass saxophone. Some sax quartet arrangements provide an alternative part for bass sax. If you will be playing by ear in a Dixieland band then you will not have any problems.
 
#25 ·
If you practice reading bass clef, you'll find you have many more options in ensembles. The BBb tuba parts are often too low, and you have to compete with powerfarting monstrosities; but large ensemble arrangements will often have a string bass part, or sometimes a Bb contrabass clarinet, or even occasionally a contrabassoon part. If you don't find one of those unique parts, 3rd trombone usually works, or first tuba if there are two.
 
#26 ·
Also, sometimes an orchestral piece is transposed down a step when it's arranged for band; in those cases you can get the contrabassoon or string bass part from the orchestral version, and just play the notes as written. (Both of those sound an octave lower than written, but it all works out more or less.) This works, for example, for Holst's Planets, but should work for many other transcriptions too.
 
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