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Bass sax parts in a concert band

13K views 31 replies 17 participants last post by  RobBari 
#1 ·
I've found a community band to play with, and am wanting an excuse to get a bass sax again. I looked up some of the band standards on IMSLP.org (great site), and found that a lot of familiar pieces have bass sax parts in the original score. These include, for example:

Alford/ Colonel Bogey

Grainger/ Shepherd's Hey; Irish Tune

Holst/ First and Second Suites

Sousa/ Washington Post, Corcoran Cadets,

Sousa arr Gardner/ Stars and Stripes

Vaughan Williams/ English Folk Song Suite

The following pieces may or may not have bass sax parts, but do have contrabass sarrusophone:
Grainger/ Children's March
"/ Molly on the Shore

I think that bass sax parts were common in pre-WW2 arrangements - can some of you point me to others?

If this thread is a duplicate, maybe somebody can point me to the older version?
 
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#2 ·
The original arrangement for Grainger's Children's March uses a bass saxophone. I played bass sax on the West Point Band's "Tribute to Percy Grainger" CD. (I was a hired extra so they could have 5 saxes in the section to fill out Graingers arrangements.

Also - Sousa always used a Bass Sax to double the Tuba - to add articulation to the Bass Line. I know this because when the Keith Brion (new Sousa band) worked with the West Point Band years ago - once again I was called in to play bass.

Many of todays arrangements do not include because nobody has easy access to bass saxophones.
 
#3 ·
And here are some that may not be public domain:

Schuman/ George Washington Bridge

Grainger/ Lincolnshire Posy

Milhaud/ Suite Francaise

Walton/ Crown Imperial
 
#4 ·
Here's another: Polka and Fugue From "Schwanda, the Bagpiper." Weird name for a piece, I know, but it exists, and has a bass sax part.

Also - Sousa always used a Bass Sax to double the Tuba
I've played the bass sax part on one of his marches, but I can't remember which one. Maybe "The Thunderer" -- I just remember that it wasn't a very interesting part.

On the rare occasion when there's a bass sax part in an old concert band piece, I take a look at it and decide whether it's worth playing. If it just echoes the other basses in the band, I may not. If it seems to add some independent lines, and/or it completes the sound of the saxophone section, I may play it if there's only one alto part, and we can spare dropping an alto. I play these bass sax parts on tenor, of course, since no one in the band has a bass sax.

I would go further than the above post about contemporary band works: almost all, not just many, of these lack a bass sax part.
 
#5 ·
Best bet: read bass clef and double the tubas. I've done it. It "smooths up the entire bass section," as Buescher used to note in their sales literature. Including bari, bass clarinet and bassoon. You'll make everyone sound better. :)
 
#21 ·
I've read bass clef parts on Bari and even Alto in Eb (add 3 #'s - play as written or up an octave or 2)- what is necessary to play same on a Bb Bass
Sax? (Or I suppose Bass Clarinet)
 
#6 ·
If we're talking about tuba parts in classic band music, a.k.a. "marches", keep an eye out for National Emblem, beginning of the trio. Some of Sousa's marches have a bass saxophone part, probably mostly the later ones. E.g. Gallant Seventh, 1922, but reading bass clef is a really useful skill for the bass saxophone player.
 
#7 ·
So to sum up, and continue, we have bass sax parts (or *other low-low woodwind) in the originals of the following:

Alford/ Colonel Bogey

Bernstein/ West Side Story

Bernstein arr Lavender/ Symphonic Dances from WSS Symphonic Dances from West Side Story HL #48019358 (*CBn)

Britten arr Kreines/ Four Sea Interludes (from "Peter Grimes", Op 33A) HL #48023104 (*CBC and *CBn)

Fairlie/ Storm and Urge Storm and Urge HL #48023471 (*CBC)

Grainger/ Shepherd's Hey; Irish Tune; Children's March; Lincolnshire Posy

Holst/ First and Second Suites

Karl Husa/ Concerto for Alto Sax and Band

Milhaud/ Suite Francaise

Rachmaninoff arr Lavender/ Symphonic Dances Symphonic Dances, Op. 45 HL #48021191 (*CBn)

William Schuman/ George Washington Bridge

Sousa/ Washington Post, Corcoran Cadets, Stars and Stripes, Gallant Seventh, many many others

Tchaikovsky arr Cramer/ Dance of the Jesters HL #44000354 (*CBC)

Vaughan Williams/ English Folk Song Suite

Walton/ Crown Imperial

Weinburger arr Bainum/ Polka and Fugue from Schwanda the Bagpiper

John Williams/ Adventures on Earth (from E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial) HL #04002541 (*CBn)

Wilson/ The Music Man

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I've found that the Chatfield Lending Library is a great resource, even for in-copyright material: http://chatfieldband.lib.mn.us/music-library/.

IMSLP is terrific for classical: http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page.

http://www.bandmusicpdf.org/ is a great resource for scanned historical band material. (Sometimes, though, they regard a newer arrangement as more desirable, even though it eliminates bass sax etc.)
 
#8 ·
Sousa/ Washington Post, Corcoran Cadets, Stars and Stripes, Gallant Seventh, many many others
...
http://www.bandmusicpdf.org/ is a great resource for scanned historical band material. (Sometimes, though, they regard a newer arrangement as more desirable, even though it eliminates bass sax etc.)
Or it could work the other way around. I was intrigued by the notion that Washington Post would have originally included a bass sax part, in 1889, so I looked up a couple of old prints.

The first one, Harry Coleman 1889, not only has no bass sax part, it doesn't have any sax parts! Who knows what that means? It isn't the original score, at best, and for all we know maybe someone scanned the parts from a collection whose sax parts had been lost. Anyway, it's an old school band arrangement - has a couple "Tenor" parts and a "Bb Bass or Tromb." part - these aren't saxophones, they're variations on the baritone horn / euphonium theme, the tenor closer to the English brass band baritone horn, the Bb bass more like a euphonium but obviously playing more of a bass role. Standard instrumentation for band at that time - whether Sousa's band was like that or not, the published part of course wasn't for Sousa's band. I read that Sousa's first private band had three saxophones, in 1892.

The second, the usual Carl Fischer, 1912, has been rescored for a more modern ensemble - and it has a bass sax part. I think it's safe to assume that the bass sax part was added to the arrangement by Sousa himself, when he added bass sax to the instrumentation, and likewise that everything his band played from then on had a bass sax part, arranged by himself.

My point here is that if you're looking for an authentic bass sax part in a popular band arrangement, the question is not which tunes to look for, but which published versions. There isn't one in the John Church print of Liberty Bell, but if there's a Carl Fischer print from 20 years later, that probably would have one.

And if you look at the parts you can find, I think you will notice that the bass sax part is closely related to the bass (tuba) part. Often just the same, but sometimes an octave lower, occasionally tacit or even less commonly plays while tuba doesn't. These variations from the tuba part might be very predictable - that would be very interesting - but my guess is that if you don't have an authentic part, you just have to guess what's right based on your own musical intuition. I usually just played the lower tuba part note for note, when I was doing it, but it's probably a good idea to take it down an octave when that seems to work musically.

(Also, I think you will find a bass sax part in the 1908 Carl Fischer print of French National Defilé, Turlet.)
 
#9 ·
Whether or not Sousa's music includes a bass saxophone part, is not so much the question. According to Keith Brion who leads the "New Sousa Band", Sousa used a Bass Saxophone doubling the tuba parts to add articulation to the tuba sound. I know this for certain as I was hired a few years ago by the West Point Band when Keith was to be a guest conductor and he requested an additional saxophonist to play bass sax. Also I know one of the guys who plays bass sax in the New Sousa Band. Even then, using Keith's arrangements, I had to transpose and write out my own Bass Sax parts from the Tuba part.

Reality is - publishers often did not include a Bass Sax part BECAUSE not many schools had a bass sax at their disposal.
 
#10 ·
You don't have to cite Keith Brion, it's fairly clear what Sousa was up to with the bass saxophone, post-1900 anyway.

You can also decide what the question is for yourself, it's a free country, but it appears to me that the OP is looking for parts already written for bass sax. For which I'd suggest early 20th century copyrights, because that's when they did that.

How does that add up, anyway? Brion makes a big fuss about this important role for the bass sax, then works out his own arrangements, and ... what, no bass sax part? Hmm. I somehow feel sure that Mr. Sousa would have done differently.
 
#11 ·
Sousa did write an original work that includes the bass saxophone for his Saxophone Corps, the saxophone ensemble that performed in many of his band concerts in the 1920s. It seems that the bass sax was included in the band to some degree.
This "Untitled One-Step" as I call it (the manuscripts in which I found the complete sketch had no title) is scored for SAATTBBs. It is a light, brief work with an operatic paraphrase in the middle (common for the time) that features the baritone and bass saxes. I've created a performance edition that is published by To the Fore Publishers.

Paul Cohen
 
#12 ·
It is nice to see some heavyweights contributing to this thread.

One more to add to the list:
The Virgen de la Macarena piece (trumpet solo with concert band accompaniment) has a bass sax solo which is cued into bari sax, euph, and BCl parts - but apparently the publisher doesn't bother printing the bass sax part anymore!!

I'm going to put up an archive of at least the out-of-copyright music - as bass sax gets more popular, I hope to see more use of it in concert bands. (Ditto and then some for contrabass sarrusophone.)
 
#17 ·
I am playing bass sax in the concert band of the french Post Office, mostly of the time there is no specific bass sax part, I take the bass tuba Bb in treble key and if not i ask for a transcribtion from Bb tuba i bass clef into treble clef
I know that Rampone&Cazzani italian sax manufacturer made a new bass sax, we can find sometimes old bass sax from R&C on the market
 
#19 ·
Some more modern Alfred Reed pieces have parts for bass saxophone - "Armenian Dances - Part 1" would be one I can think of just off the top of my head.
 
#20 ·
Jenkins/ American Overture (also has Cbn and CBC parts) (This piece used to be a commonplace for good high school bands - is it not popular anymore?)

Holst/ Planets has a Cbn part in the orchestral version - the band arrangement (apparently done by Holst himself) is one full step lower than the orchestral version, so the Cbn part is easy to read on bass sax (finger a bottom line G bass clef as if it were written as a second line G in treble clef).
 
#22 ·
Something to be considered here. A bass saxophone only goes a major third lower than a low A baritone sax. However, the tone is deeper, which is why I prefer vintage Conn & Buescher basses or new Keilwerth & Eppelsheim basses. New Selmers (a great bass sax) and other French basses tend to sound like a baritone sax with lower notes.
The non-Selmer style basses have an incredible sound. When doubled an octave higher by baritone or even tenor sax, nothing else compares.
For me, bass saxophone exists for the sound, not for the 4 extra low notes.



Keilwerth
 
#25 ·
For me, bass saxophone exists for the sound, not for the 4 extra low notes.
Couldn't agree more!

And while on the subject, I'm currently using my bass in a wind symphony, playing written bass parts on Battle Hymn of the Republic, and the 1812 Overture. Also recently was given a bass sax part on a tune called 'The Vanished Army' by Kenneth Alford, and that was a great piece to play!

I'm also playing it with a street band locally called the 'Nacho Street Band'. I play a lot of parts with our tuba player, so sight transposing bass clef parts is a MUST!
 
#24 ·
I have a "French" style bass (Noblet) that I use a Selmer bass sax MP on and I don't think it "sounds like a slightly lower baritone". There's a presence to the bass sax that the baritone doesn't have, even though I have a much more aggressive setup and horn for my baritone than for my bass sax.

I have never had the opportunity to A/B my bass sax against a vintage Conn or Buescher, though.
 
#26 ·
So including the above, plus some new discoveries:

Alford/ Colonel Bogey
Alford/ Vanished Army
Bernstein/ West Side Story
Bernstein/ Three Dance E-isodes arr. Stith
Bernstein/ Symphonic Dances from West Side Story arr Lavender HL #48019358 (*CBn)
Britten/ Four Sea Interludes (from “Peter Grimes”, Op 33A) arr Kreines HL #48023104 (*CBC and *CBn)
Fairlie/ Storm and Urge Storm and Urge HL #48023471 (*CBC)
Grainger/ Shepherd's Hey; Irish Tune; Children's March; Lincolnshire Posy; Ye Banks and Braes
Holst/ First and Second Suites
Holst/ Moorside March
Holst/ Planets * play CBn part from orchestral version as written
Karl Husa/ Concerto for Alto Sax and Band
Karl Husa/ Music for Prague
Karl Husa/ many others
Jenkins/ American overture
Milhaud/ Suite Francaise
Rachmaninoff/ Symphonic Dances Op. 45 arr Lavender HL #48021191 (*CBn)
Alfred Reed/ Armenian Dances 1
William Schuman/ George Washington Bridge
William Schuman/ When Jesus Wept - NE Triptych
William Schuman/Chester
Sousa/ Washington Post, Corcoran Cadets, Stars and Stripes, Gallant Seventh, many many others
Tchaikovsky/ Dance of the Jesters arr Cramer HL #44000354 (*CBC)
Vaughan Williams/ English Folk Song Suite
Walton/ Crown Imperial
Weinburger/ Polka and Fugue from Schwanda the Bagpiper arr Bainum
John Williams/ Adventures on Earth (from E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial) HL #04002541 (*CBn)
Meredith Wilson/ The Music Man
 
#29 ·
Just to add, when I worked with the West Point band and Keith Bryon was the guest conductor (New Sousa Band), he insisted on having a Bass double the tuba, because it added a slight attack to their (the tuba's) sound. Besides, that what Sousa did.
 
#31 ·
+1 to saxtek.

I'm going to put this data into a spreadsheet. Any suggestions about how to share it? Simplest would be if I can post an xls or csv file here; otherwise I can just upload it to my business site and post here to alert people to updates.
 
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