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Link Quality Issues

184K views 307 replies 110 participants last post by  larryrph78 
#1 ·
Many of you especially the mouthpiece refinishers have been saying for a long time that all stock Links can be improved. Both isaxman and Sigmund451 have raised the issue of Link quality recently. Here is my recent experience.

I have 2 Otto Link STM NY 7*'s purchased 6 weeks apart from Saxquest and they are different! The difference is greater then I would expect for process variation! The first one (Link "A" which replaced a regular STM ) has a sound I really like but I heard the siren call of an even better piece. I will not part with Link "A" so I ordered a second one (Link"B") hoping! it would be equally as good. It could then be sent to MoJo for analysis and see what he recommends to improve it?

Link "A" has no baffle and a nice smooth floor from tip to bore. . Link "B" has a flat baffle extending out from the tip about ¼ inch before angling to the unfinished floor. At first I was thinking this was intentional, but it just may be sloppy finishing. It looks like it was hit with a grinder at the wrong angle giving it the effect of a short baffle. The suppliers have been constantly out of the popular sizes recently so the factory has likely been under some pressure for quantity which ALWAYS sacrifices quality.

Link "B" has wider rails and from the shank looks like it came from a different mold, but is the same basic design. I have been A-B…ing the two for 5 days. Link "B" does appear to sound brighter and harsher to my ear. I am being very picky here! Just changing rooms makes a much greater difference.

I cannot envision an easier blowing piece or a sound closer to what I am looking for then Link"A" I played Link "A" with a FL lig. for several days including church, concert band, and some jazz and have since switched back to the stock lig.. I thought the FL gave a slightly richer sound! but it was imparting a slightly breathy buzz that is not present with the stock lig. I ran a number of different reeds, but that's another story.

The FL now resides on my Soprano on a HR Otto Link 6* and shows promise of an easier blow and clearer tone.!
 
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#242 ·
You're so right,man!!!I bought a Link from a store in San Francisco even without trying it,plain 7 metal and since I tryed lots of other tenor mpc and every time I go back to my Link 7 bought even without trying!So sorry I spent so much money on looking for something that some ''handmade mpc'' will give me!All my mpc's I play now ,are bought without trying,and they play!The new ''voodoo'' things don't!Meyer and Link,that's all about it!Stock ones!Cheers!
 
#245 ·
Phil, would you consider the Vandoren V16 rubber series for alto and tenor to be reasonable alternatives for Meyers and Links, respectively? I believe that the player has to do with 98% percent of the tone when it comes to mouthpieces (and God knows I'm not a good jazz player by any means) however, it is nice having some peace of mind knowing that Vandoren makes very consistent products with good workmanship. You know, for us paranoid types with a limited budget and can't afford your work ;)

At any rate, back to the shed. I have repertoire waiting for me.
 
#252 ·
In my opinion, a good Link will completely expose the player. I mean, they're almost like a blank piece of paper and you're the pen. The quality of the picture you draw is based on how well you can draw, not the quality of the paper. I'm not sure if any other mpc is like this.
 
#253 ·
I have recently purchased an otto link NY 6, i already own a morgan 6 m chamber made when Ralph was alive.and the NY6 is very good.The tip rail profile fits the average reed not as round as some i have seen, it is also wider than others allowing for more adjustment, the tip rail does not look as perfect as the Morgan,but it blows very evenly all over the instrument.
 
#254 ·
Today I received a current Otto Link STM NY 11 tip (special custom order from 2003). Plays great and easy as is, no quality issue at all! Just recorded (after play testing about 15 minutes) a take for the TOTM of this month (Serenity from Joe Henderson), see:

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10322413
 
#256 ·
#257 ·
In addition to the previous post:

I also posted the two parts on YouTube, with some pictures of them and a time index via which you can jump directly to the piece you want to hear (you have to open the description under the video first to get the index table). See these links:

- Part 1 :
- Part 2 :
 
#274 ·
I've played a HR link on alto since 1990. A few years ago I ordered another link as a backup, and it is significantly different (not for the better). Recently, I ordered a V16, and it's alright but not as nice as my 90s link. However, I just tried a Ted Klum acoustimax, and it's exactly what I was looking for! I get the impression the 'hand finished' small business mouthpiece makers are the modern equivalent of the vintage mouthpiece makers. Its like every other household brand-name from the 50s.... They suck now! Their reputation was built on a solid product, then someone else took over who doesn't give a crap. But in their wake, some mouthpiece refacers started making their own mouthpieces..... And I think that is a beautiful thing! The difficulty is in being able to try them first, because if they ever produced enough to stock every store, the quality would become like the former companies...
 
#286 ·
Bringing back an old thread...

I get the impression the 'hand finished' small business mouthpiece makers are the modern equivalent of the vintage mouthpiece makers.
I think vintage mouthpieces being perceived super amazing is only a recent development, spurred by mouthpiece collectors. Sure there are distinct traits that make a Florida Link a Florida Link (floor for one), but play better? I've played some FL Links that were okay, not mind-blowingly awesome. I have a bone stock STM NY, does everything I want it to. Granted I did minor work to it, like undercutting the table, but the facing curve, tip rail and side rail are all untouched. I played a $1500 New York Double Ring Link to compare and like my store-bought Link more. Go figure.

I think there's definitely a consistency issue though. I played another STM NY, same size, and it squeaked and was dead.
 
#287 ·
If someone is counting. I watched Mojobaris slant & babbit comparison on youtube where he mentions links tables being concave. As a happy coincident i had my old (but modern) STM 7* and a new tone edge 5* I had home for trying out. I checked the tables on a glass sheet with a light behind. And both of them where pretty concave.
I took a sheet of really fine grit sandpaper and went to town with the STM The first marks where close to the shank and about 1/4 up on the rails. But when it was leveled boy what a difference. It felt like a brand new piece the difference in response was immediate. And I could use previously discarded reeds.

The Tone edge was just for trying out I shipped it back coz peterogping is going to send me a couple of different runyons and brilharts for testing. Phils early post in this thread really resonated with me, I spend years on GAS with guitars and studio gear and I'm trying to stay away. I just wanna find a good horn and a good piece and be done with it. But after trying the tone edge I feel that small tip/thick reed is more my bag. That's why I want something else than the STM.
If the brilharts and ebolins are not my bag I can always go back and by the tone edge and level the table and end up with a great piece either way. And since my experience is limited playing a handfull of vintage pieces feels like a fun thing to do.
 
#288 ·
The problem with just trying to flatten the table is that it is just part of a reface job. If may actually make the mouthpiece play worse. Some concave tables merely bow the reed when the ligature is tightened. They can still seal well if it is a com cavity without irregularities.

But some leak air. Flattening the table will fix that if done right. Done wrong, it will make the table convex which is nearly always bad. If it is flattened a lot, the facing length will get shorter and there will be a kink in the facing where it meets the new flat table. This kink needs to be blended in. If done only by freehand without gauges you are just guessing at how much you need to go. When it comes to refacing, guessing should be minimized for the best results.
 
#289 ·
I was aware of that, and luckily the stm was not as bad as the tone edge and I Only flattened the stm. I went with 1000p grit and veeeeery slowly. And I actually stoppet once in à while to make sure it was geting better instegade of worse.

If I had done the same ting to the tone edge WHO was much more concave I'm sure I Woolf have screwed it up.

I enjou you youtube channel by the way!
 
#290 ·
Yup, as Mojo mentions, not a good idea to try doing it yourself. If you are flattening the table to any measurable degree, you're also closing the tip a proportional amount. Not to mention it's too easy to mess up a table practically beyond repair if you're not using the right touch. And what Mojo says about the facing length being shortened and the shape of the end of the curve having a kink in it are two very important issues you don't want to ignore.

A lot of STM Links I've tried stock recently haven't actually been that bad and some can play well off the shelf, although they almost always become better with some extra care since many of the issues of production that they have stock can be remedied and improved with some simple time and attention to detail in the finishing department.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#294 ·
...

A lot of STM Links I've tried stock recently haven't actually been that bad and some can play well off the shelf, although they almost always become better with some extra care since many of the issues of production that they have stock can be remedied and improved with some simple time and attention to detail in the finishing department.
I'd love to know what some of those finishing department details are. I'm all ears!!

-R
 
#293 ·
I have one of each type as part of my (vintage) Link collection. Both do play well for me without modifications.

The NV Tone Master I have is a darker piece, but sounds ok. It isn't very loud in the upper register, maybe because mine is a 10* (a smaller tip will be a bit brighter). My NV Slant TE 7* is brighter because it has more baffle than the metal NV TM, this one also plays well for me. None of them my main piece, I prefer Florida no USA Links.

Here are some soundclip examples, in case you would like to hear how they play for me:

- 'Waterwings' (NV Tone Master 10* - La Voz medium): http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12325305

- 'Honky Tonk' (NVS Tone Edge 7* - La Voz medium): http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13230666

I've played a few other NV TM's and they also did play well, but my total experience with them is not enough to say anything meaningful about production consistency.
 
#292 ·
Hit or miss.

The HR pieces are more playable than the metal unless you like an UBER dark piece. The metal pieces are like the old tone masters.
Problem is that they did not add enough baffle to compensate for making them in modern tip sizes.
Also the facing is really long

Dark dark dark
They make interesting piece reworked though.
 
#302 ·
I'm not sure what you mean. I have to say though, this is a long thread so the Link tenor mouthpiece must still be very popular but you could buy a million of them and they'd never keep up with the volume required today. I copied two really great Links though with a little spin on them and a few people have done the same thing so why not just buy one of them? I really think it's the legend that keeps them going. I don't know, this business is still a mystery to me. Phil Barone
 
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